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  1. #1
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    GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 9

    Please continue here.

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    Lauren Teresa Giddings

    April 18, 1984 -- June 26, 2011
    Rest in Peace
    Last edited by KateB; 05-18-2015 at 12:58 AM. Reason: repair url tags.
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  2. #2
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    Wanting to re-ask this question, since I posted it so near the end of the other thread:
    Given the extreme interest in this case, is there a chance the commitment hearing will be, in effect, closed to the public? If so, will media reps still be able to attend? Anybody know?

  3. #3
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    Boy, the best and brightest of WS seem to all be on the case here! It took me awhile, but I read every single post and every article, and there really isn't a whole lot that hasn't been said, or hypothesized. (and man you JDs sure know how to talk it up!) But, after all of that I do have one thought that I would like to share.
    I think it's possible that the attempted break in on the Thursday night prior actually did not happen at all. I think that it is possible that McD made it up, and told it to Lauren as a warning, so that she would tell her friends and it would add to the reasons that McD would not be focused upon as suspect in her disappearance.
    I'm not convinced, but I do think it is possible, and it would explain why she was not all that shaken up by it (and perhaps not entirely convinced it even really happened). This would also make it more likely that she did in fact write that last email mentioning it, and why McD focused on that part of the email so intensely during his press interview.

    I also have a question... early on, in one of the first threads, there was a rumor that LE was upset about how the very beginning of the investigation (the night before she was found) was botched, and that led to problems with evidence having been moved. The obvious evidence was her torso, naturally. But is there any hint that any other evidence was moved? I thought perhaps the Zaxby's bags which were originally reported as being in her apt (I thought) and later they were said to be in her car (which struck me as odd). Though I can see no rational reason to move that sort of evidence around...
    Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans. J. Lennon NYC

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoods View Post
    Wanting to re-ask this question, since I posted it so near the end of the other thread:
    Given the extreme interest in this case, is there a chance the commitment hearing will be, in effect, closed to the public? If so, will media reps still be able to attend? Anybody know?
    I hope we can get the info. I'd hate to be left in the dark.
    It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. ~ Arthur Conan Doyle

  5. #5
    It wasn't the same night, so if he were focused on that one night, it may have taken him a few minutes. Not all that unusual. Especially, if he told it the next day as reported.


    He stated his saw was twisted. Despite what people are reporting that Stanley saw says, saws do get twisted and warped. Even more so if someone has no clue how to use one. It isn't impossible for this to be true. And since it is a common saw (the only one sold by area Walmarts), it would not be unusual for two people to have the same one.

    They do not know the packaging matches that one saw at this point. And we do not know how it was in his home. Was it displayed as a trophy or hidden in a secret hiding spot, or was it under a Starship Trooper model to keep glue and paint from dripping, or under a table leg to keep it from wobbling.


    What is unusual about that? It was reported the friends, including McD, had been taken to the station and spent several hours with the detective. He might know the car and the name because he had been with him all morning, and probably even rode in that car.

    We do not know how this happened. Was it a prank, or a dare? Some kind of scavenger hunt? Or was it something he thought he might need and he didn't have time to go to a store? Or is he secretly gay and wanted to have something connected to these guys (strange, but still possible)? Or does he like to take small things from random people (again, strange, but a big leap from dismembering the neighbor)?

    I'm sure someone will have a cow (MOO!) over me posting this, but I tend to look at all options. I have to consider what could be the other possibility for these things. Not that they are the correct option, but an option to be considered, just the same.
    in response to Psycho Mom(please forgive me I'm a newbie and I don't know all the quote functionals yet)

    With it being a different night I cant phantom someone as competent as SM not being forthcoming with this MM on the balcony at the first sign of trouble if that was indeed what he saw....just seems very out of the norm for someone as smart and young as him to not initially remember this, especially strange for a new Law graduate.

    as far as the saw packaging, yes this may be insignificant based on how it was found as you said, it also is a paper trail of insignificant things leading back to him

    as far as the detectives name and car, it seems odd b/c he is very acute and detailed with almost everything but LG...not sure if she had a boyfriend, didn't remember much about seeing her family once, didn't remember the loud noise and MM being on a balcony in the wee hours of the morning, couldn't give a definitive answer on her age.

    as far as the burglary with the condoms. I'm clueless myself as to exactly why these were taken....just another oddity in a odd crime.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Givsmetheshivers View Post
    Also, I wanted to let you guys know that I looked through Flickr and found as many pictures as I could from downtown Macon during the last week of June. I found one person that was in the area that took tourist type pictures. I was thinking that maybe they had some pictures with cars or people in the background. She might not write me back, but I explained the situation and am hoping she will or will at least send them to LE.
    I think you may have to explain this to me as well
    Is there something in particular you're hoping someone captured in a photo?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmomom View Post
    Boy, the best and brightest of WS seem to all be on the case here! It took me awhile, but I read every single post and every article, and there really isn't a whole lot that hasn't been said, or hypothesized. (and man you JDs sure know how to talk it up!) But, after all of that I do have one thought that I would like to share.
    I think it's possible that the attempted break in on the Thursday night prior actually did not happen at all. I think that it is possible that McD made it up, and told it to Lauren as a warning, so that she would tell her friends and it would add to the reasons that McD would not be focused upon as suspect in her disappearance.
    I'm not convinced, but I do think it is possible, and it would explain why she was not all that shaken up by it (and perhaps not entirely convinced it even really happened). This would also make it more likely that she did in fact write that last email mentioning it, and why McD focused on that part of the email so intensely during his press interview.

    I also have a question... early on, in one of the first threads, there was a rumor that LE was upset about how the very beginning of the investigation (the night before she was found) was botched, and that led to problems with evidence having been moved. The obvious evidence was her torso, naturally. But is there any hint that any other evidence was moved? I thought perhaps the Zaxby's bags which were originally reported as being in her apt (I thought) and later they were said to be in her car (which struck me as odd). Though I can see no rational reason to move that sort of evidence around...
    Hello!
    Regarding what I bolded in your post:
    I did bring this up once, the possibility that Stephen might have told Lauren that he had witnessed or suspected someone trying to break into her apartment -- but I sort of turned around and shot the theory back down by saying that might have been too risky ... because if she told friends "Stephen said..." and then later any finger of suspicion pointed at him ... well, I kind of ruled it out as unlikely. Not impossible though.

    We know about the email that mentions the possible break-attempt, but other than that, it seems that LG didn't tell anyone about it. I know we had a report of someone who was out with Lauren on Friday night thinking it odd that Lauren didn't mention it, if it concerned her at all. (This was when we were theorizing about whether the perp might have written the email.) Of course, she could have mentioned it to others that we just don't know of.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoods View Post
    Hello!
    Regarding what I bolded in your post:
    I did bring this up once, the possibility that Stephen might have told Lauren that he had witnessed or suspected someone trying to break into her apartment -- but I sort of turned around and shot the theory back down by saying that might have been too risky ... because if she told friends "Stephen said..." and then later any finger of suspicion pointed at him ... well, I kind of ruled it out as unlikely. Not impossible though.

    We know about the email that mentions the possible break-attempt, but other than that, it seems that LG didn't tell anyone about it. I know we had a report of someone who was out with Lauren on Friday night thinking it odd that Lauren didn't mention it, if it concerned her at all. (This was when we were theorizing about whether the perp might have written the email.) Of course, she could have mentioned it to others that we just don't know of.
    Thanks for your reply, and my sincerest apologies for not remembering that you had brought it up already (there were an incredible amount of posts I had to read through!)
    I see your point about how it may have turned around and led to more suspicion of McD, but I tend to think he wouldn't have seen it that way. Maybe. He certainly didn't worry about that thought when he really played it up in his TV interview!
    One thing I am not clear on. I think the consensus is now that she did indeed write that email, is that correct? And also, it was to her BF in Atlanta (but presently in CA) if I remember correctly. ?
    Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans. J. Lennon NYC

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoods View Post
    Hello!
    Regarding what I bolded in your post:
    I did bring this up once, the possibility that Stephen might have told Lauren that he had witnessed or suspected someone trying to break into her apartment -- but I sort of turned around and shot the theory back down by saying that might have been too risky ... because if she told friends "Stephen said..." and then later any finger of suspicion pointed at him ... well, I kind of ruled it out as unlikely. Not impossible though.

    We know about the email that mentions the possible break-attempt, but other than that, it seems that LG didn't tell anyone about it. I know we had a report of someone who was out with Lauren on Friday night thinking it odd that Lauren didn't mention it, if it concerned her at all. (This was when we were theorizing about whether the perp might have written the email.) Of course, she could have mentioned it to others that we just don't know of.
    Quoting my own post to add a few thoughts!

    After getting myself a cup of coffee, I'm thinking -- guess it is possible that Stephen (or someone else) might have reported something about witnessing or suspecting a Thurs. break-in attempt at her apartment, telling her about it on SATURDAY, after she returned home. That would explain no mention of it to the friend Friday night, but she could have mentioned in the email sent Saturday.

    We still don't know exactly what she said in the email regarding the possible break-in attempt -- IMO, knowing that could clear a lot up.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmomom View Post
    Thanks for your reply, and my sincerest apologies for not remembering that you had brought it up already (there were an incredible amount of posts I had to read through!)
    I see your point about how it may have turned around and led to more suspicion of McD, but I tend to think he wouldn't have seen it that way. Maybe. He certainly didn't worry about that thought when he really played it up in his TV interview!
    One thing I am not clear on. I think the consensus is now that she did indeed write that email, is that correct? And also, it was to her BF in Atlanta (but presently in CA) if I remember correctly. ?
    I mentioned it very briefly only, so I am in no way surprised it didn't jump out at you. I had to "catch up" through about 3 threads, I think, before I started posting and THAT was enough to try to pack in. Catching up through 8 would be intense indeed!

    On whether she wrote the email and that it was to her boyfriend in Atlanta (but who was on a California trip at the time) being a consensus ...well, I guess, kind of!! There was a whole lot of confusion and discussion on those two things, but I do think it has settled down to "she probably wrote the email" and "it was sent to her boyfriend". Her sister Kaitlyn has said something to the effect that there were a few things that were a little odd about the email but that under other circumstances she wouldn't have questioned it, and pretty much said she thinks Lauren did write it.


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ~SuperSleuth~ View Post
    I think you may have to explain this to me as well
    Is there something in particular you're hoping someone captured in a photo?
    Her pictures were in the front yard of a historic landmark about a block away from Barristers Hall Apartments. If you are trying to piece together Lauren's last couple of days, you might be able to see something in the background.

    It is a pretty far stretch, but they have seen Natalee Holloway in the background of certain shots and it has helped them piece together her night to a small extent.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoods View Post
    Wanting to re-ask this question, since I posted it so near the end of the other thread:
    Given the extreme interest in this case, is there a chance the commitment hearing will be, in effect, closed to the public? If so, will media reps still be able to attend? Anybody know?
    One of the lawyers can give you a better answer, but for now this link might help. It's a state by state guide to cameras in the courtroom. It basically says media has to submit a written request to cover a case in the courtroom, and the judge has the discretion to grant extended coverage, but can also limit coverage to one video camera and one still camera in the courtroom at one time.
    http://www.rtnda.org/pages/media_ite...te-guide55.php

    There's also a possibility the judge could rule a gag order prohibiting any of the players from speaking to the media. I was afraid that was coming when Mrs McD was talking so much. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it won't come to that.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bessie View Post
    One of the lawyers can give you a better answer, but for now this link might help. It's a state by state guide to cameras in the courtroom. It basically says media has to submit a written request to cover a case in the courtroom, and the judge has the discretion to grant extended coverage, but can also limit coverage to one video camera and one still camera in the courtroom at one time.
    http://www.rtnda.org/pages/media_ite...te-guide55.php

    There's also a possibility the judge could rule a gag order prohibiting any of the players from speaking to the media. I was afraid that was coming when Mrs McD was talking so much. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it won't come to that.
    Thanks, bessie.

    I bet the Macon media folks are getting those requests in, huh?

    I was thinking, too -- as far as the public attending (thinking of course about WSers here): if there are main courtrooms and smaller ones (as there are some places, not sure about Bibb Co.), it might be held in a small one even if not formally closed, something along those lines.

    Is the commitment hearing generally an open one, barring a gag order or something similar?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoods View Post
    Wanting to re-ask this question, since I posted it so near the end of the other thread:
    Given the extreme interest in this case, is there a chance the commitment hearing will be, in effect, closed to the public? If so, will media reps still be able to attend? Anybody know?
    After some digging, I was able to find some information regarding the commitment hearing. Because of the unique stage at which the commitment hearing takes place, it was difficult for me to pinpoint an explicit statement regarding public access to those records. However, I was able to find the following:

    1. Under the Georgia Open Records Act,

    50-18-72.
    (a) Public disclosure shall not be required for records that are:

    (4) Records of law enforcement, prosecution, or regulatory agencies in any pending investigation or prosecution of criminal or unlawful activity, other than initial police arrest reports and initial incident reports; provided, however, that an investigation or prosecution shall no longer be deemed to be pending when all direct litigation involving said investigation and prosecution has become final or otherwise terminated;
    http://www1.legis.ga.gov/legis/2003_.../50-18-72.html


    One preliminary note that I took from reading earlier portions of this statute was that the agency from which information is requested has three days in which to provide an affirmative response. Assuming the local media will maintain its avid attention to this case, I suspect we'll know whether we'll gain access to any relevant information within three days of the hearing.

    The issue with the applicability of this provision, of course, is that a commitment hearing isn't solely a record of LE or of the prosecution (as in, say, documentary/forensic evidence in a pending file), but it's also a proceeding in court, which led me to:


    2. Uniform Rules of Magistrate Court of Georgia:

    25.2. Commitment Hearing
    A. A magistrate, in his or her discretion, may hold a commitment hearing even though the defendant has posted a bail bond as provided in Rule 23.
    B. At the commitment hearing by the court of inquiry, the judicial officer shall perform the following duties:
    (1) Explain the probable cause purpose of the hearing;
    (2) Repeat to the accused the rights explained at the first appearance;
    (3) Determine whether the accused waives the commitment hearing;
    (4) If the accused waives the hearing, the court shall immediately bind the entire case over to the court having jurisdiction of the most serious offense charged;
    (5) If the accused does not waive the hearing, the court shall immediately proceed to conduct the commitment hearing unless, for good cause shown, the hearing is continued to a later scheduled date;
    (6) The judicial officer shall bind the entire case over to the court having jurisdiction of the most serious offense for which probable cause has been shown by sufficient evidence and dismiss any charge for which probable cause has not been shown;
    (7) On each case which is bound over, a memorandum of the commitment shall be entered on the warrant by the judicial officer. The warrant, bail bond, and all other papers pertaining to the case shall be forwarded to the clerk of the appropriate court having jurisdiction over the offense for delivery to the prosecuting attorney.
    Each bail bond shall contain the full name, residence, business and mailing address and telephone number of the accused and any surety;
    (8) A copy of the record of any testimony and the proceedings of the first appearance and the commitment hearing, if available, shall be provided to the proper prosecuting officer and to the accused upon payment of the reasonable cost for preparation of the record;
    (9) A judicial officer, conducting a commitment hearing, is without jurisdiction to make final disposition of the case or cases at the hearing by imposing any fine or punishment, except where the only charge arising out of the transaction at issue is the violation of a county or state authority ordinance.
    C. At the commitment hearing, the following procedures shall be utilized:
    (1) The rules of evidence shall apply except that hearsay may be allowed;
    (2) The prosecuting entity shall have the burden of proving probable cause; and may be represented by a law enforcement officer, a district attorney, a solicitor, a private attorney or otherwise as is customary in that court;
    (3) The accused may be represented by an attorney or may appear pro se; and
    (4) The accused shall be permitted to introduce evidence.

    http://www.georgiacourts.org/files/U...ules_08_10.pdf

    BBM

    This is the first time I've actually seen a detailed description of the precise procedure that takes place at a commitment hearing (as I'm in unchartered territory with criminal law). If someone has already posted this, my apologies. There were two things that I noted here. First, it is still unclear to me, on the face of the rule, whether such a record would be available upon request to the public. Second, I noted that hearsay evidence may be allowed. This might prove to be great for the prosecution, but not so great for those of us still yearning for even the slightest bit of new information. We may not, after all, hear any more information regarding what description McD gave of his perfect murder scenario.

    Sorry for the length, but I just thought I'd share what little bit I found.

  15. #15
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    Posted by Starry Nights:
    SNAP....why in the heck would the killer put the saw in the utility closet? This whole case has me spinning.

    AngelAnalyzes has changed my world....educating me about the reasoning behind a crime such as this. I am so grateful for her young blood and interest in this case. The book references helped me understand how someone ramps up to a murder so shocking.
    Things like the access to the storeroom, utility closet etc.......yes. Very important. Those things are, to coin a word, logistics.
    Why and how to prevent is mitigation.
    Angel please stay.
    Wow, thanks, more than you know that means a lot to me! I don't really deserve all that, I haven't done anything yet to make a mark, but I'm just now starting my senior year and words like this mean a lot to me and help me stay focused. It's easy to stay focused on my area of interest, but not on the other classes I have to take as pre-req's lol. This post is self-absorbed but after saying something so nice about me I just had to thank you in a post

    To (not so)PlainJaneDoe:
    Inbox isn't full now, but if anyone tried to send me something and couldn't, my apologies. I haven't been home much this weekend. I'd love to hear what I might have missed

    On a side note...this case is really starting to affect me emotionally. Seeing the vidoes made for Lauren struck a nerve and really humanized her to me, my heart breaks for Lauren and her family. I have no instinctive doubt that Stephen McDaniel did this to them all, and my anger and disgust is growing by the day. What right did he have? So incredibly tragic.
    "Deep in each man is the knowledge that something knows of his existence. Something knows, and cannot be fled or hid from." - Cormac McCarthy

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