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Thread: Life After Jeffs: Civil War in the FLDS?

  1. #1
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    Life After Jeffs: Civil War in the FLDS?

    There is a schism in the FLDS since Jeffs has gone to jail and more so since he has been sentenced. Life is changing at "Short Creek". Does this mean the end of the FLDS as we know it?

    William Jessop has sent a letter to all the FLDS families, condemning Jeffs. He is telling the members to come into the light, so to speak, stop marrying under age girls, and acting immorally. He has 200 followers already and conducts his own church services. His followers are now sending their kids to the local public school:

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...ers-conviction


    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...flds-cult.html

    It looks like life in Colorado City/Hilldale has already begun to change since Jeffs went away. According to Brent Jeffs, who was raped repeatedly by his uncle Warren Jeffs when Brent was very small, "[l]aughter, music, books and dogs have returned and people no longer face the threat of having their families and homes reassigned." Pg. 234 of Lost Boy.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out and how life changes for the community.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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  3. #2
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    That's interesting...

    I was wondering about that. I am just finishing Elissa Wal's book, "Stolen Innocence" and I have again been struck by how much evil can be done in the name of religion. That's the part that is most difficult to address. Trying to get people to understand how they are being manipulated to satisfy the wordly urges of men is rendered almost impossible by the very irrational reality of all religion. How can you establish that their irrational belief is worse or more damaging than someone else's when it shares a foundation of faith alone.

    Elissa sets out how Warren was able to bamboozle the FLDS members and become the Prophet, a very controlling and paranoid Prophet who imposed ever stricter rules . He began by pretending to be speaking for his ailing father, the Prophet who was actually never supposed to die. He was supposed to be "renewed" and begin to exist as a young man again. His wives were actually knitting baby clothes in anticipation of this elderly man becoming young and virile again. When he naturally died, Warren led them to believe he was still speaking for his father and that his father was actually renewed just not physically but spiritually and Warren was his mouthpiece. He appropriated many of his fathers wives for himself and doled the remainder out to those loyal to him. He had a wife give her testimony about how Warren had been chosen by the Prophet. Everyone believed what they were told despite it making no sense and was in contradiction to what they had been taught to believe up to that time. Just like the end times were coming in 2000 and then when the SLC had the winter Olympics and Warrens explanation was that God was being benevolent and was allowing them more time to repent. He was able to expell any men who he felt might question or challenge him and whoever he named was immdeiately ostracized regardless of thie previous position and lack of any evidence of wrongdoing.

    Reading this book I was angry at Elissa's mother and her inability to protect her daughters and sons. Yes, she "believed" that she had to follow her priesthood head to get to heaven etc and that priesthood heads were to be obeyed as God but as a parent you also have a different and higher calling. Elissa and many of her siblings were able to think their way out. It is possible. It's so frustrating.

    Ultimately the system they have in place is likely to always end in corruption. Giving men, as in humans, control over your life and your children to this extent means that this power is extrememly attractive for someone to get. Money, women, property, all are controlled by the head, the Prophet whose very thoughts are the same as God's. I find elections in this country hard enough to take but how much worse it would be to be trying to become and convince people you are, the Prophet.

    Whatever happens with this cult and whoever becomes the Prophet the end result will unfortunately likely be the same.



    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    There is a schism in the FLDS since Jeffs has gone to jail and more so since he has been sentenced. Life is changing at "Short Creek". Does this mean the end of the FLDS as we know it?

    William Jessop has sent a letter to all the FLDS families, condemning Jeffs. He is telling the members to come into the light, so to speak, stop marrying under age girls, and acting immorally. He has 200 followers already and conducts his own church services. His followers are now sending their kids to the local public school:

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...ers-conviction


    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...flds-cult.html

    It looks like life in Colorado City/Hilldale has already begun to change since Jeffs went away. According to Brent Jeffs, who was raped repeatedly by his uncle Warren Jeffs when Brent was very small, "[l]aughter, music, books and dogs have returned and people no longer face the threat of having their families and homes reassigned." Pg. 234 of Lost Boy.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out and how life changes for the community.



    BOYTWNMOM
    Three things cannot long be hidden the sun, the moon, and the truth. -Confucious

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  5. #3
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    Looks like Jeffs is still giving commands from prison. He has declared that the members can no longer have sex (I guess if he's not getting any, they shouldn't either). One guy who violated the order was expelled from the church and his marriage dissolved. Also:
    Holm told the station that her brother left the church three weeks ago because of the sex ban. She said he had been a follower of the church for 39 years.
    "They're leaving," Holm said. "Groups of them are coming out. We're getting families that are coming out now. It's only going to get worse."
    http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/31/us/tex...html?hpt=hp_t3

    I think when you take away sex, people have a problem. They can withstand a lot but no sex?
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boytwnmom View Post
    I was wondering about that. I am just finishing Elissa Wal's book, "Stolen Innocence" and I have again been struck by how much evil can be done in the name of religion. That's the part that is most difficult to address. Trying to get people to understand how they are being manipulated to satisfy the wordly urges of men is rendered almost impossible by the very irrational reality of all religion. How can you establish that their irrational belief is worse or more damaging than someone else's when it shares a foundation of faith alone.

    Elissa sets out how Warren was able to bamboozle the FLDS members and become the Prophet, a very controlling and paranoid Prophet who imposed ever stricter rules . He began by pretending to be speaking for his ailing father, the Prophet who was actually never supposed to die. He was supposed to be "renewed" and begin to exist as a young man again. His wives were actually knitting baby clothes in anticipation of this elderly man becoming young and virile again. When he naturally died, Warren led them to believe he was still speaking for his father and that his father was actually renewed just not physically but spiritually and Warren was his mouthpiece. He appropriated many of his fathers wives for himself and doled the remainder out to those loyal to him. He had a wife give her testimony about how Warren had been chosen by the Prophet. Everyone believed what they were told despite it making no sense and was in contradiction to what they had been taught to believe up to that time. Just like the end times were coming in 2000 and then when the SLC had the winter Olympics and Warrens explanation was that God was being benevolent and was allowing them more time to repent. He was able to expell any men who he felt might question or challenge him and whoever he named was immdeiately ostracized regardless of thie previous position and lack of any evidence of wrongdoing.

    Reading this book I was angry at Elissa's mother and her inability to protect her daughters and sons. Yes, she "believed" that she had to follow her priesthood head to get to heaven etc and that priesthood heads were to be obeyed as God but as a parent you also have a different and higher calling. Elissa and many of her siblings were able to think their way out. It is possible. It's so frustrating.

    Ultimately the system they have in place is likely to always end in corruption. Giving men, as in humans, control over your life and your children to this extent means that this power is extrememly attractive for someone to get. Money, women, property, all are controlled by the head, the Prophet whose very thoughts are the same as God's. I find elections in this country hard enough to take but how much worse it would be to be trying to become and convince people you are, the Prophet.

    Whatever happens with this cult and whoever becomes the Prophet the end result will unfortunately likely be the same.
    Not necessarily. Hopefully, without the threats of Jeffs, the people of the FDLS can begin to assimilate more into society, or alternatively, make some changes to their own society that allow all members to live peacefully.

    Jeffs isn't so much a religious leader as a megalomaniacal cult leader. Behavioral profiling shows that men like Jeffs have much in common with the David Koresh, Jeff Lundgren, and Jim Jones' of the world, but little in common with the average religious leader.

    The reasons that such large numbers of people in the world belong to some religious tradition or another, be it Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Paganism, etc., are varied for sure, but it is absolutely not because they are all stupid, or manipulated, or irrational. I guess because I grew up well after the Holocaust and the Civil Rights era, and Apartheid, it's really hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that people sometimes still want to make blanket judgements about other groups of people just because they are different or because they don't understand them....when I hear statements that classify all people of a certain race, religion, gender, etc. in a specific negative light, it just makes me cringe.

    So, I don't want to do that to the people of the FDLS either. I have to believe that they are largely good and decent people, and that without Jeffs, they will be able to build something better.

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    Former FLDS spokesman sues Warren Jeffs

    BY LINDSAY WHITEHURST
    The Salt Lake Tribune

    First published Feb 09 2012 02:37PM
    Updated Feb 9, 2012 11:22PM

    The former spokesman for the polygamous sect led by Warren Jeffs says in a new lawsuit that sect leaders arranged a nighttime burglary that gutted his business after he was excommunicated for refusing to falsify sect records on Jeffs’ marriages to underage girls.

    More at: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53...iness.html.csp

    Complaint:http://www.scribd.com/doc/81138407/J...t-Warren-Jeffs

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    Banned toys, banned bicycles, banned sexual relations . . . . what does this Man get in return for all of his Power and Control? More power and Control! If he continues to reign supreme over his "followers" - why can't it be stopped? He is continuing to harm others, take away their basic human rights, bullying, intimidation, and total allegience (sic?) to the "False Prophet". Makes me physically sick!

    Video @ link

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=19101493
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    Bigamy charges dropped against jailed polygamist pedophile Warren Jeffs because 'case is too expensive' (and he's already serving 130 years)

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz29eB7KQbd
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    Rebecca Musser spoke on Dr. Phil today describing her experience growing up FLDS, being married to Rulon Jeffs (Warren Jeff's Father) when she was 19 and Rulon was 85. She became his 19th of 65 wives. When he passed away - Warren Jeffs told her she would be married to someone else as she knew it was "God's Will" and she said she "didn't know" this to be 'God's will'. Warren told her he was going to 'break' her.

    She later came forward and testified against many and wrote a book on her experiences called "The Witness Wore Red". Her own parents threatened defamation and her Mother said she would rather see all of her children dead than have one of them defy the 'Prophet'.

    Rebecca's Father, Lloyd Wahl, now believes Warren Jeff's FLDS a "cult" since Warren was convicted and went to prison. Lloyd was a former LDS and converted to FLDS when he was 30 years old. He had 3 wives and 25 children and denies any knowledge of sexual abuse of Rebecca by one of her brothers (by another mother). He further denies any knowledge of physical abuse of Rebecca by that brother's Mother.

    Lloyd wants his daughter to "correct the timeline, fix the errors, and obtain permission from her family members to tell her story. Dr. Phil told him Rebecca did not need to have permission from anyone to tell her own story.

    http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/2175
    Last edited by wenwe4; 02-20-2014 at 08:50 PM. Reason: added link
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  17. #9
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    Premieres tonight on LMN:

    8:00PM (EDT) Outlaw Prophet: Warren Jeffs (2014)

    "Outlaw Prophet: Warren Jeffs" is the true story of the fundamentalist Mormon leader who spent more than a year on the FBI’s “10 Most Wanted List” for unlawful flight on charges related to his alleged arrangement of illegal marriages involving underage girls. Based on the book When Men Become Gods by New York Times bestselling author Stephen Singular, the movie chronicles Jeffs’ (Tony Goldwyn) rise to power after the death of his father, Rulon Jeffs (Martin Landau). Within days of his father’s passing, Warren married all of his father’s wives and dictatorial control over his polygamist followers ensued. He demanded women in the sect be completely subservient to men, banned laughing, and “reassigned” wives to other men at whim. Jeffs was eventually charged as an accomplice to rape for arranging underage marriages but fled prosecution. After a year-long manhunt, he was finally apprehended in Texas and brought back to trial. The courtroom testimony of two brave young women who escaped his reign of terror ensured he would finally be convicted and sentenced to life in prison. Outlaw Prophet: Warren Jeffs gives an inside look at the psychology of a cult leader and those who blindly followed him. Even to this day with their leader behind bars, members of his polygamist cult still believe that he is the prophet chosen by God himself.

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    Not sure if this is the appropriate place to put this but it I believe it illustrates the culture of Paternalistic power and control the FLDS embraced under Jeffs control. What lengths they are willing to go to ensure the submission of women & youth. Nine boys affiliated with the Jeffs FLDS sect were removed from a home in Pocatello, ID for significant abuse/neglect charges. Interesting to note these boys were not thown out on the streets to become some of the lost boys.

    http://m.localnews8.com/news/boys-re...-home/27775694

    Here is more from the SL Tribune:

    The boys ages 12-17 were sent on "repentance missions" and are current or former Jeffs FLDS members

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58...eport.html.csp

    Here is a link to the court documents:

    One boy refused to speak to his Mother at the Shelter Care Hearing, telling the judge that he did not want to return to her custody as he was an "Apostate" and she would have to return him to the church. (prior to pg 6/32)

    the boys allege that once they turn 12 "they are not supposed to be under the same roof as females". (pg 7/32)

    These children have been in Big Piney, Wy and 2 residences in Pocatello. It appears there are many of these homes that house multiple young men (these boys slept in sheds).
    Last edited by wenwe4; 08-28-2014 at 04:50 PM. Reason: added link
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    http://www.mininggazette.com/page/co...sap=1&nav=5015

    Authorities are investigating after an explosion tore apart a pickup truck on a northern Arizona farm just outside of an isolated community along the Utah border where polygamy is practiced openly.

    No one was injured in the recent blast near Colorado City, but Shane Stubbs, who used the vehicle for farm work, suspects it was part of ongoing harassment he says his family has faced since leaving the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a religious sect connected to imprisoned former leader Warren Jeffs...

    Experts from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives examined the blast and determined it wasn't a homemade device, such as a pipe bomb. Instead, they suspect it was a commercial explosive, such as dynamite, ATF spokesman Tom Mangan said.

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