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  1. #1
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    Conference aims to normalize pedophilia

    How can crimes against children no longer be crimes?

    “The first thing they do is to get the public to divest from thinking of what the offender does criminally, to thinking of the offender’s emotional state, to think of him as thinking of his emotional state, [and] to empathize and sympathize,” Reisman said. “You don’t change the nation in one fell swoop; you have to change it by conditioning. The aim is to get them [pedophiles] out of prison.”

    "...What purpose does calling someone a ‘pervert’ or ‘predator’ serve anyway, other than to express contempt and hatred?” Kramer wrote in a March 14, 2009 blog entry on the website ReformSexOffenderLaws.org. “How is this productive? It certainly doesn’t protect children. I would urge all SO [sex offender] activists to listen to their own message: Stop buying into and promoting false stereotypes. Stop demonizing a whole class of people, and start learning the facts.”

    What purpose does it serve? How about the purpose of IDing perverts who prey on children. Ugh.


    http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/15/co...ze-pedophilia/
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  2. #2
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    B4U-ACT has been active attacking the APA’s definition of pedophilia in the run up to the conference, denouncing its description of “minor-attracted persons” as “inaccurate” and “misleading” because the current DSM links pedophilia with criminality.

    According to the conference brochure, the event will examine “ways in which minor-attracted persons [pedophiles] can be involved in the DSM 5 revision process” and how the popular perceptions of pedophiles can be reframed to encourage tolerance.
    http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/15/co...ze-pedophilia/

    Wow. So I guess if you're attracted to a minor (as an adult) then it isn't a crime, you're only a pedophile. Only if you ACT upon the feeling it's a crime so we have to specify between being sexually attracted to a child and the crime of acting on it????
    The poor law abiding pedophiles are getting a bad rap! Sigh....
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by deelytful1 View Post
    http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/15/co...ze-pedophilia/

    Wow. So I guess if you're attracted to a minor (as an adult) then it isn't a crime, you're only a pedophile. Only if you ACT upon the feeling it's a crime so we have to specify between being sexually attracted to a child and the crime of acting on it????
    The poor law abiding pedophiles are getting a bad rap! Sigh....
    And to complicate things even further, all 'persons' who have raped, molested and/or exploited children for their own personal gain or sexual pleasure deny they have done so, and only claim they just innocently "love" children (though usually they specify "love little girls" or "love little boys".


    Most will take it one step further. They would never "hurt" a child. Only love them. If there is evidence that rape occured, the child "wanted" it.

    I know under the free speech this kind of assembly has to be allowed. But it just burns my b_tt. I hope that LE of some type will be there undercover taking names and pictures of these guys!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by deelytful1 View Post
    http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/15/co...ze-pedophilia/

    Wow. So I guess if you're attracted to a minor (as an adult) then it isn't a crime, you're only a pedophile. Only if you ACT upon the feeling it's a crime so we have to specify between being sexually attracted to a child and the crime of acting on it????
    The poor law abiding pedophiles are getting a bad rap! Sigh....
    Isn't that a good thing? Don't we want pedophiles to restrain themselves?

    I don't know the blog cited, but if they have to go to Jerry Falwell's university to find an "expert" to incite panic, I question the standards of journalism.

    So I'm not sure what this group hopes to accomplish. Defining attraction to any minor as "pedophilia" may be good law (for the protection of kids), but it's bad psychology. A 19-year-old who dates a 16-year-old isn't the same as a 50-year-old who molests 8-year-olds, even if both acts should be illegal.

  5. #5
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    Very true, Nova. There's a big difference in mentality between a 20 year old interested in teenage girls, and a 50 year old interested in 6 year olds.

    And ultimately, don't we want people to resist those urges? Ideally, we will eventually develop some way of treating this as a mental illness, so that those who want to get help can, and thus prevent anything from occurring.

    We had a client who had been abused and molested himself as a child. He had been in therapy for over twenty years, trying to not act on his urges. He eventually downloaded movies and was caught and is now in prison. This man loathed himself. I couldn't help but feel bad for him, because he had done everything he could - inpatient treatment, therapists, drugs, etc. and nothing had gotten rid of those urges. He hated himself so completely, but couldn't help himself.

    The whole thing reeks of bad journalism, but I think it's thought provoking. As a whole, society would benefit more by finding ways to treat these types of deviant urges, rather than acting after the fact. The judicial system must balance the competing interests of rehabilitation and deterrence, but jail or registration isn't going to deter someone who's wired wrong. It would be a good thing if we were able to find a way to treat this.
    “Justice cannot be for one side alone, but must be for both.” - Eleanor Roosevelt


    In no way should any of my statements be construed as legal opinion or advice. While I am a lawyer, I am not a verified poster here at WS. The above statement(s) are an expression of my personal opinion, for entertainment purposes only, and copyright.

  6. #6
    After seeing the articles about this when they first came out, I made the mistake of looking up the organization's website. It trashed my blood pressure.

  7. #7
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    Nothing normal about a pedophile!
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  8. #8
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    If someone is hardwired to be sexually attracted to children, then they need tools to make sure they dont act on it. If. This is the part I struggle with. I can see the evolutionary value of someone being attracted to the same sex and I can see that it is reasonable that people, for example, might choose to retreat to their own sex occasionally for a number of reasons.

    I dont get how humans would evolve to be hardwired to be attracted to children. It doesnt make any sense to me, and it is hard for me to buy it. It *feels* to me like it is really about control and domination and access.

    But I am a layperson.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by believe09 View Post
    If someone is hardwired to be sexually attracted to children, then they need tools to make sure they dont act on it. If. This is the part I struggle with. I can see the evolutionary value of someone being attracted to the same sex and I can see that it is reasonable that people, for example, might choose to retreat to their own sex occasionally for a number of reasons.

    I dont get how humans would evolve to be hardwired to be attracted to children. It doesnt make any sense to me, and it is hard for me to buy it. It *feels* to me like it is really about control and domination and access.

    But I am a layperson.
    believe09, if we could avoid bringing us gay people into discussions of pedophilia, I would really appreciate it. I know you were contrasting the two and had nothing but good intentions, but it's taken us decades to live down the stereotype that we are somehow akin to child molesters.

    I think it makes perfect evolutionary sense to be attracted to the young: they are stronger and healthier and physically better suited to survive childbirth. If heterosexual men were honest, most would admit their sexual ideal is a 16-year-old. Modern society recognizes reasons why teenagers aren't really prepared to be sexually active with adults and has rightly raised the age of consent, but that doesn't change the underlying biological urge.

    True pedophilia--attraction to the pre-pubescent--makes less if any evolutionary sense, so I think that has to be considered paraphilia.

    But the distinction between the two is yet another reason why using the word pedophilia to describe all attraction to minors of any age is bad medicine. (Again, I'm not arguing that we should abolish ages of consent, just that we shouldn't confuse science and law.)

  10. #10
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    I wonder if it's not necessarily being hardwired for something, but that something goes wrong, like when low serotonin levels prompt depression?

    I'm not a psychologist or scientist, so who knows? I think for some, like believe said, it is about power and control. With others, it truly seems to be a matter of wiring or hormones or something, because they try to have normative urges, and can't. I've seen both types with my job.
    Last edited by AnaTeresa; 08-25-2011 at 03:13 PM. Reason: Clarity
    “Justice cannot be for one side alone, but must be for both.” - Eleanor Roosevelt


    In no way should any of my statements be construed as legal opinion or advice. While I am a lawyer, I am not a verified poster here at WS. The above statement(s) are an expression of my personal opinion, for entertainment purposes only, and copyright.


  11. #11
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    Oh, please God, that real normal people are there to document & take pictures, video, names, license tags with car descriptions...anything available. This group and their activities should be watched CLOSELY.

    Miss Izzy is not going to be happy, jmo

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    So I'm not sure what this group hopes to accomplish. Defining attraction to any minor as "pedophilia" may be good law (for the protection of kids), but it's bad psychology. A 19-year-old who dates a 16-year-old isn't the same as a 50-year-old who molests 8-year-olds, even if both acts should be illegal.
    Respectfully snipped by me.

    Charlie, Nova is pointing out that defining attraction to a minor (i.e., anyone under the age of 18), while good law, is not "pedophilia." Pedophilia, by definition, is characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (generally age 13 years or younger, though onset of puberty may vary). The child must be at least five years younger in the case of adolescent pedophiles (16 or older) to be termed pedophilia.

    As Nova points out, a 19 year old involved with a 16 year old is NOT a pedophile - although his/her act certainly is illegal, and rightly so. It's a different kettle of fish than a 50 year old interested in an 8 year old. The first is not pedophilia, and the latter is.
    “Justice cannot be for one side alone, but must be for both.” - Eleanor Roosevelt


    In no way should any of my statements be construed as legal opinion or advice. While I am a lawyer, I am not a verified poster here at WS. The above statement(s) are an expression of my personal opinion, for entertainment purposes only, and copyright.

  13. #13
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    I also just realized I was referring to Nova as "she", without knowing his/her gender. Sorry if I'm incorrect - no insult intended!
    Last edited by AnaTeresa; 08-25-2011 at 04:03 PM. Reason: Typo
    “Justice cannot be for one side alone, but must be for both.” - Eleanor Roosevelt


    In no way should any of my statements be construed as legal opinion or advice. While I am a lawyer, I am not a verified poster here at WS. The above statement(s) are an expression of my personal opinion, for entertainment purposes only, and copyright.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    believe09, if we could avoid bringing us gay people into discussions of pedophilia, I would really appreciate it. I know you were contrasting the two and had nothing but good intentions, but it's taken us decades to live down the stereotype that we are somehow akin to child molesters.

    I think it makes perfect evolutionary sense to be attracted to the young: they are stronger and healthier and physically better suited to survive childbirth. If heterosexual men were honest, most would admit their sexual ideal is a 16-year-old. Modern society recognizes reasons why teenagers aren't really prepared to be sexually active with adults and has rightly raised the age of consent, but that doesn't change the underlying biological urge.

    True pedophilia--attraction to the pre-pubescent--makes less if any evolutionary sense, so I think that has to be considered paraphilia.

    But the distinction between the two is yet another reason why using the word pedophilia to describe all attraction to minors of any age is bad medicine. (Again, I'm not arguing that we should abolish ages of consent, just that we shouldn't confuse science and law.)
    Homosexuality was brought into it by Dr. Fred Berlin;

    Berlin has similarly compared society’s reaction to pedophilia to that of homosexuality prior to the landmark 2003 Lawrence v. Texas decision that decriminalized sodomy.

    I found that disgusting. There is nothing similar between pedophilia and homosexuality. Two adults being attracted to each other isn't the same as a man to a child.

    As a raving heterosexual I'd have to say that 30 is my ideal age for a woman. 16 year olds are pretty but they also talk. I couldn't be aroused by a 16 year old, no matter how pretty, for any amount of time if she was talking.

    A 30 year old woman is at her peak physically and is sophisticated enough to carry on a real conversation. JMO

    As far as the article states about wanting to change the mindset of men attracted to children as being a psychological defect I say gross. It should be considered a psychological defect. I also think serial killing is a psychological defect. JMO

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnaTeresa View Post
    I wonder if it's not necessarily being hardwired for something, but that something goes wrong, like when low serotonin levels prompt depression?

    I'm not a psychologist or scientist, so who knows? I think for some, like believe said, it is about power and control. With others, it truly seems to be a matter of wiring or hormones or something, because they try to have normative urges, and can't. I've seen both types with my job.
    This is totally my non-scientific, layperson's opinion, but I have long thought that pedophilia stems from arrested social development. The pedophile is attracted to children because they are on his level, or at least a level where he feels he has control; adults are too powerful and, to oversimplify, scare the pedophile on some fundamental level.

    Anyone who knows better should feel free to contradict me. As I said, this is just non-professional speculation.

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