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  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlainJaneDoe View Post
    (snipped)
    2. If the Spierers are challenging CR's memory loss, to me that means that they are not on board with the idea that he consumed xanax, alcohol, & cocaine (the 3 drugs that have been most speculated about in this case). Do you agree with my interpretation here?
    (Snipped)
    I'm not sure about that but I could interpret their statements to simply mean either that "We don't believe that he can't remember anything." OR "He doesn't really have AMNESIA but perhaps just a good old fashioned hangover." Either way, I don't think that they are saying he DIDN'T consume anything. IMO one could have consumed these (all or in a combination) and still remember major events. He may not recall all details but even on those drugs/alochol and yes, even getting hit in the head, I think he could still recall if he was in the room when someone died. IMO there would be a LOT of quickly sobering up of people involved at the time. I still think they may have needed to call in someone more level headed, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be able to remember.


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  3. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlainJaneDoe View Post
    1. I don't have much of an opinion about the white truck. I do know that our brains play tricks on us, so that we see patterns where there are none, as others have posted above. This is why there is such a thing as a visual illusion - and there are many of those.

    2. If the Spierers are challenging CR's memory loss, to me that means that they are not on board with the idea that he consumed xanax, alcohol, & cocaine (the 3 drugs that have been most speculated about in this case). Do you agree with my interpretation here?
    This reminds me of a discussion that we had a while ago about the possibility that "cooler heads" - meaning someone(s) who were sober, or at least more sober than others seemed to be - were involved if indeed LS's friends from that night had something to do with her disappearance and with concealing evidence.
    Or it is possible that they are on board with the xanax/alcohol/cocaine thing. It's just that none of the boys gave that information and it is all from rumors. Maybe challenging CR about the amnesia is their way of provoking a little more truth out of the boys about what was really going on that night. The amnesia story does sound pretty ridiculous without the substance explanation, but CR has never offered the substance excuse (we have done it for them).

    Personally, if they are trying to get this info officially I think they are going down the wrong path. If CR was not involved with hiding LS's body, there is no way he has any motivation to come clean about what substances he and LS may have ingested that night.
    Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans. J. Lennon NYC


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  5. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmomom View Post
    Why, of all things, focus on the phone call? Why not focus on the claim that she left around 4:30 under her own power?
    I think that's an important point. There must be a reason why they focused on this call and remember, quite recently, CS made a point to let us know that the last time she'd used her phone was at 12:16 and that you should ALWAYS carry your phone. I kinda wonder if she finds it suspicious that her phone just happened to have been found at Sports. In other words, for some reason, perhaps she doesn't think that Lauren would have called to see if "what's his initials" had her phone b/c as long as she was alive, she never knew it was missing. Maybe it hadn't been missing while she was alive. I hope LE has viewed ALL footage at Sports (including after they left the bar) to see if anyone else may have come in who could have planted her phone there.

    What I don't understand is why though -


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  7. #379
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    I think casting doubt on the phone call may immediately cast doubt on the 430 claim as well as bring up issues of WHY you would lie about that phone call being her. I am wondering if they have any firm reason to doubt the call-like, some sort of reasoning about why she would call DR and not someone else or maybe it pinged from somewhere not his apartment?

    I also think they are smart folks and realize that CR's story is really dumb-no one believes he lily white and innocent, was casually walking somewhere, punched out of nowhere for no reason, and then forget the entire night because of the injuries that he never went to the hospital for and magically never showed any bruising. Now, that could mean they just figure maybe he hiding something, but that can be actual memories or a different reason for the memory loss. For example, even if CR is innocent I bet they would want to know if he was doing drugs, if Lauren was doing them too, and who they bought the drugs from.


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  9. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabby66 View Post
    I think that's an important point. There must be a reason why they focused on this call and remember, quite recently, CS made a point to let us know that the last time she'd used her phone was at 12:16 and that you should ALWAYS carry your phone. I kinda wonder if she finds it suspicious that her phone just happened to have been found at Sports. In other words, for some reason, perhaps she doesn't think that Lauren would have called to see if "what's his initials" had her phone b/c as long as she was alive, she never knew it was missing. Maybe it hadn't been missing while she was alive. I hope LE has viewed ALL footage at Sports (including after they left the bar) to see if anyone else may have come in who could have planted her phone there.

    What I don't understand is why though -
    That's kind of what I was thinking...that CS believes that that call wasn't made by Lauren.
    now an official Penn State alum!

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  11. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmomom View Post
    Or it is possible that they are on board with the xanax/alcohol/cocaine thing. It's just that none of the boys gave that information and it is all from rumors. Maybe challenging CR about the amnesia is their way of provoking a little more truth out of the boys about what was really going on that night. The amnesia story does sound pretty ridiculous without the substance explanation, but CR has never offered the substance excuse (we have done it for them).

    Personally, if they are trying to get this info officially I think they are going down the wrong path. If CR was not involved with hiding LS's body, there is no way he has any motivation to come clean about what substances he and LS may have ingested that night.
    Ha, good point.
    now an official Penn State alum!

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  13. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmomom View Post
    Or it is possible that they are on board with the xanax/alcohol/cocaine thing. It's just that none of the boys gave that information and it is all from rumors. Maybe challenging CR about the amnesia is their way of provoking a little more truth out of the boys about what was really going on that night. The amnesia story does sound pretty ridiculous without the substance explanation, but CR has never offered the substance excuse (we have done it for them).

    Personally, if they are trying to get this info officially I think they are going down the wrong path. If CR was not involved with hiding LS's body, there is no way he has any motivation to come clean about what substances he and LS may have ingested that night.
    Yes, I think they might be challenging CR. I've never believed his amnesia was from being hit ... but I do think he could be "foggy" from the effects of alcohol and something. I'm thinking he'd at least remember doing whatever made him foggy. Actually, MB did say in one interview (Herald Tribune?) that CR crashed because he'd been drinking. But from his perspective, he's probably better off not remembering more than that.

    I don't blame them for taking the gloves off, however.
    Last edited by imkeylime; 09-01-2011 at 07:48 PM. Reason: typo


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  15. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmorejames View Post
    As a poster mentioned earlier... The Dahmer case.. If you recall, the 13 year old Asian boy who was walking in downtown Milwaukee naked could barely form sentences and was barely coherent. As Dahmer approached the officers, he informed them that his "boyfriend" had a bad habbit of doing this often.

    The sad part, 15 minutes after the cops left the poor kid was murder and cut apart.

    Even sadder, the cops were known to address over the police radio using the words, "gay" "fag" and "******s"

    If only it wasn't 1992 and being in a gay relationship was acceptable, perhaps the cops would have looked further into the situation as opposed to ostracizing them for being gay and letting Dahmer get away with it!
    This is absolutely horrifying. That poor boy. When I read about it an earlier post, I hoped beyond hope that he was somehow spared. I should have known better. It does show that LE can sometimes make major mistakes, very sadly.


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  17. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmomom View Post
    Or it is possible that they are on board with the xanax/alcohol/cocaine thing. It's just that none of the boys gave that information and it is all from rumors. Maybe challenging CR about the amnesia is their way of provoking a little more truth out of the boys about what was really going on that night. The amnesia story does sound pretty ridiculous without the substance explanation, but CR has never offered the substance excuse (we have done it for them).

    Personally, if they are trying to get this info officially I think they are going down the wrong path. If CR was not involved with hiding LS's body, there is no way he has any motivation to come clean about what substances he and LS may have ingested that night.
    What path would you have them take?


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  19. #385
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    IMO The bartender that turned over the phone to JW should come forward and claim to LE exactly when they found the phone. With all the conspiracy regarding the phone, there's possibility the bartender who had the phone was the same bartender that made the drinks that some people think CR and LS could have had spiked. While I don't think both their drinks were spiked, who knows if the phone was really left there, or given to the bartender later.

    We don't know anything about that bartender, if they even went through the phone, and when they responded to JW that the phone was left. Was in during business hours before the bar closed, was it after closing, was it early the next day?

    The phone could have never been in her possession after leaving Smallwood at 12:16am. She may have never left it at Kilroy's by mistake. Could have been placed there later. We don't know...

    Was it a guy or a girl that responded to JW and met him to hand over the phone. Also is it possible to throw the phone/flip flops over a fence to the alleged sand area?


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  21. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
    What path would you have them take?
    I think many people believe they should be trying to use sugar rather than vinegar. Be nice, open, politely ask for help, emotional non-accusatory pleas, and basically try to make them feel comfortable and safe offering up information.

    However, I have been watching the case basically from Day 1 and they did that at first. Months have passed-no one has come forward. They are desperate. Maybe throwing a little pressure on people will make something happen.

    I am still hoping they get lucky and somehow find some piece of evidence that blows everything wide open.


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  23. #387
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    I thought CR took a polygraph (and submitted DNA too for that matter)??


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  25. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabby66 View Post
    IMO they played a real trump card by waiting until the kids all returned to school, before making that announcement. This keeps the suspicion alive and well, and clouds opinions of friends. Had this statement been made over the summer, some students wouldn't have heard about it and others would have forgotten. This may get some kids talking.

    I believe that LE must suspect these boys too. I think that they've surely found some little sort of evidence (maybe even in one of the apartments) which is enough to cause suspicion, but not enough to convict. Perhaps that's why they went to the landfill - to get the only thing left that they needed for a conviction?

    IF one or more of these boys is guilty, their return to school tells me that their parents do not believe their son is involved (to a guilty level). If I thought that my kid hidden a body, there's no way in H*LL I'd send him back to school. An education costs a LOT of money. I hate to say this but practically speaking, if my son was likely facing prison time, I wouldn't be worrying about a college degree. Of course his attorney probably said, "carry on as normal". However "Normal" does not include spending thousands more on school, spending thousands on a defense attorney, then spending the rest of your life in prison. College education is WAY important to our family, but I guess I'm a bit too practical also. If these kids have snowed their parents, I have a strong feeling they aren't going to crack. I think I'd have been really drilling my kid about this over the summer.....probably to the point where he'd have admitted to something he didn't even do, just to shut me up.
    BBM

    Just wanted to say your post tickled me. I know this thread is a serious matter, but sometimes a little levity is a good thing.

    I can just picture myself (also a college parent) saying "It'll be OK, you can finish your degree in prison! " and me thinking "and I won't have to pay for it".

    I guess that makes me a bad person.

    (OT, but we've all heard about people commiting crimes so they can get medical care, wonder if that's been used for education yet? With the skyrocketing costs? aye yai yai!)


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  27. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by akh View Post
    I thought CR took a polygraph (and submitted DNA too for that matter)??
    I thought all of the POIs had except for JR who took a private one and not a LE one. That comment is curious to me-wouldn't the parents know if he had taken and passed one??


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  29. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
    What path would you have them take?
    Quote Originally Posted by Darcyline View Post
    I think many people believe they should be trying to use sugar rather than vinegar. Be nice, open, politely ask for help, emotional non-accusatory pleas, and basically try to make them feel comfortable and safe offering up information.

    However, I have been watching the case basically from Day 1 and they did that at first. Months have passed-no one has come forward. They are desperate. Maybe throwing a little pressure on people will make something happen.

    I am still hoping they get lucky and somehow find some piece of evidence that blows everything wide open.
    I think it's time to talk direct about what they want (Lauren's remains) and to name names. Seeking information about drug use is just going to increase the same pressure that led the POIs to hide the body in the first place, and I don't think it will give them what they really are after.
    I know I am in the minority here, and maybe the Spierers are more like you all than they are like me, but to me justice is quite secondary to having Lauren's remains given the burial that she deserves. And in fact, if Lauren did die of an OD, or a bad combo of pre-existing medical issues and substance abuse, I have a really hard time imagining what I think would be justice in this case. I just don't know.
    So I think connecting with the POIs either publicly, or through the lawyers to directly arrange Lauren's homecoming would be the path I would choose, rather than trying to pull information about the activities of the night.

    jmho, and I know many of you may disagree intensely.
    Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans. J. Lennon NYC


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