The Candle Wax

Mods, please move if there is already a thread discussing this, I searched, but didn't find one and I have been to Callahan's and have a few questions about the wax:

First, how much wax are we talking here? Was there enough wax that it would appear that someone spilled it all over one of the boys? What color was the wax. From what I am reading both red and blue wax was to be searched for at the house. Where is the red wax coming from? Was the wax on more than one of the boys? Was there any remnants of candle wax anywhere but on the shirt? It is my understanding that the book was secondhand, from the library or somewhere. Was there a candle seized from Damien's house? I saw somewhere that a blue candle was seized from Domini's trailer. Was there any questioning about this? Were there ever any searches on the houses of the boys (CB, SB and MM) looking for any evidence of wax, or anything else for that matter? I am also seeing that there was "no match" to the candle wax. Was it that there was no match, or was it that it was never tested to find out if there was a match, and if so, do we know why not? I can't just dismiss it based on there being "no match" without indication that there was any testing *just as I cannot accept it as being a match, or to go further, Damien's candle wax at all without testing, especially if it only came from a secondhand book. Or to word better, you can't say "no match" without testing and be 100% honest about the fact. Did the defense team ever request or have done any testing on the wax?

I know that no one probably has an answer to all of these questions, but I am trying to fill in the gaps I was left with while reading Callahans. I may have missed some things because we have had internet and power issues between the hurricane and the earthquake.

I don't think a lot has been done about the wax. IIRC, a small amount of what they thought was candle wax was on one boy, Michael Moore. None of the candles collected could conclusively be linked to the wax. I don't think it went much further than that. The whole candle wax thing was to prove a Satanic cult killing which is not the case and even Ellington implied that he wouldn't use that motive if he had tried the case again.

No, it wasn't on Michael Moore. There was a small spot of wax on Stevie Branch's white polka dot shirt, which was consistent with candle wax. Lisa Sakevicius tested it, and various bits of waxy looking things taken from Jason and Damien's home, I think also Domini's home. All she could say was that some of them were consistent with candle wax, and the spot on the shirt was consistent with candle wax.

Cappuccino said:

No, it wasn't on Michael Moore. There was a small spot of wax on Stevie Branch's white polka dot shirt, which was consistent with candle wax. Lisa Sakevicius tested it, and various bits of waxy looking things taken from Jason and Damien's home, I think also Domini's home. All she could say was that some of them were consistent with candle wax, and the spot on the shirt was consistent with candle wax.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the correction. I do occasionally get confused as to what was where, etc. I knew it was a small spot and that the testing was inconclusive at best.

Thank you both! I am reluctant to give much weight to the candle wax at all at this point for several reasons. First, the state has said that they wouldn't go with the satanic angle if it were to have gone to trial again. Second, with no testing, I wouldn't give it any weight at all, but would still like to know if there was testing that said that it did not match, since apparently there was nothing recorded when there was no match??? Honestly, that part confuses me, because I would think that everything that was tested would be recorded, but it seems this may have not been the case with some things here. I know that Damien claimed to be Pagan and I can't find anything as far as blue candles go that is negative with the Pagans (nothing really all that negative at all, from what little I know).

Do we know if they searched Stevie's house and if candle wax was one of the things that they were searching for? Any idea why they were looking for red wax? I noticed it on the list, but I never found anything where they were discussion having found any on the boys. Kinda weird. Like it just fell out of the sky.

HRCODEPINK said:

Thank you both! I am reluctant to give much weight to the candle wax at all at this point for several reasons. First, the state has said that they wouldn't go with the satanic angle if it were to have gone to trial again. Second, with no testing, I wouldn't give it any weight at all, but would still like to know if there was testing that said that it did not match, since apparently there was nothing recorded when there was no match??? Honestly, that part confuses me, because I would think that everything that was tested would be recorded, but it seems this may have not been the case with some things here. I know that Damien claimed to be Pagan and I can't find anything as far as blue candles go that is negative with the Pagans (nothing really all that negative at all, from what little I know).

Do we know if they searched Stevie's house and if candle wax was one of the things that they were searching for? Any idea why they were looking for red wax? I noticed it on the list, but I never found anything where they were discussion having found any on the boys. Kinda weird. Like it just fell out of the sky.

Click to expand...

I'll admit to confusion about the candle wax, too. It was there. Lisa Sakevicius (I can never spell her name right) said that it was inconclusive in that the tentative matches that she found were not enough to say that this spot came from this candle, much like the fiber evidence. It's all just too speculative for me to give it any credence.

IIRC, Damien was a Wiccan, not a Pagan. They're not the same, are they? I think they're related, but just a little different, but I could be wrong about that!

To answer your question about Stevie's house, it was not searched at the time of the murders, IIRC. Some years later (I want to say 2004, but that could be wrong), the defense team dug up the old swimming pool that had been filled in. I don't think that they found anything incriminating to anyone, but again I could be wrong. Maybe Cappuccino remembers better than I do on that.

No, I remember it the same way you do.

Btw, I think Wiccans are a type of Pagan, like Methodists are a type of Christian. I'm no expert on all that New Agey stuff though.

Any idea why they were looking for red wax? I noticed it on the list, but I never found anything where they were discussion having found any on the boys. Kinda weird. Like it just fell out of the sky.

Click to expand...

I'm gonna take a guess as to why it fell out of the sky. I think someone, (eg, Jerry Driver), inside the WMPD told them that red candles had some significance for Satanic Ritual Sacrifices.

That's a pure guess, and MOO.

I've always found the candle wax interesting. Not from a ritual/satanist pov of course, but from the point of view of it being there, period. Let's see, what would an 8 year old boy, running away from home (sometime around dusk) bring along with him? A candle, perhaps?

Sure makes me wish we knew where those backpacks were, and what was in them.

the wax on the book from damien's confused me - i've been reading the transcripts for several days now - don't remember anything about wax on the book and then all of a sudden that info pops up in the DA's closing argument, when he talking about how shiny it was.

Cappuccino said:

No, I remember it the same way you do.

Btw, I think Wiccans are a type of Pagan, like Methodists are a type of Christian. I'm no expert on all that New Agey stuff though.

Click to expand...

yes,that is correct

http://paganwiccan.about.com/od/wiccaandpaganismbasics/a/WWPDiffs.htm

Thanks for the info on Wiccans/Pagans. The Methodist is a Christian analogy was very apt.

I also think the candle wax probably means little or nothing related to the crime but it does intrigue me.
Really if candles were present during the crime it would be the only actual evidence that it may have been some type of ritual.
Candles are used in white and black magick spells but they are also used during exorcisms or other christian rituals .....

claudicici said:

I also think the candle wax probably means little or nothing related to the crime but it does intrigue me.
Really if candles were present during the crime it would be the only actual evidence that it may have been some type of ritual.
Candles are used in white and black magick spells but they are also used during exorcisms or other christian rituals .....

Click to expand...

Or as another poster said, little boys in the woods running away might have brought candles for light. Sometimes the most logical explanation is the right one. Occam's Razor and all.

...and I just read of BoyScout ceremonies involving "Spirit candles" as well...

news247 said:

the wax on the book from damien's confused me - i've been reading the transcripts for several days now - don't remember anything about wax on the book and then all of a sudden that info pops up in the DA's closing argument, when he talking about how shiny it was.

Click to expand...

Since when is candle wax on a book an indication of anything other than someone having spilled candle wax on a book? No such thing as an ordinary, everyday object in West Memphis, AR, I guess.

Mountain_Kat said:

Since when is candle wax on a book an indication of anything other than someone having spilled candle wax on a book? No such thing as an ordinary, everyday object in West Memphis, AR, I guess.

Click to expand...

Damien was always a voracious reader. Obviously, he was also interested in activities that involve candles. So . . .

Compassionate Reader said:

Damien was always a voracious reader. Obviously, he was also interested in activities that involve candles. So . . .

Click to expand...

Sometimes a candle is just a candle, ya know?

Mountain_Kat said:

Since when is candle wax on a book an indication of anything other than someone having spilled candle wax on a book? No such thing as an ordinary, everyday object in West Memphis, AR, I guess.

Click to expand...

A second hand book, no less.

I just can't put any stock in the wax, I'm afraid. Not only because there is so little info on it, but also because there is so little wax. One would think that while cleaning up after this ritual there would be spilled way all over. I doubt they would stand around and wait for it all to harden before cleaning up and getting out of there. Would also seem odd that they all went there prepared with candles, but no rope on the hopes that some kids stumbled along that they could overpower without the parents showing up to check on such small kids. I would need an awful lot more info on this wax before I could give it any weight towards my decision. And the book not being Damien's but instead being a library book makes me doubt the connection completely.

I totally agree. Like so much else in this case, the WMPD was trying to manufacture a case against Damien Echols. I believe the term is that he (and the other two) were railroaded.

We'd better all be careful what books we read and check out from the library! Who knows when we will be held accountable for our tastes in literature? Sounds like Orwell's 1984 doesn't it?