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  1. #796
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThoughtFox View Post
    No, I'm sorry, Oriah, but that doesn't make it any clearer even for people who know the area. She could have gone one way or another, on multiple roads and highways, and that means we really don't know for sure.

    LE searched the River at the base of the mountain and found nothing, or at least found no red jeep. I presume that's because they think wherever her phone stopped working, that's where they might still find her. So I don't think she went either North or South or West.

    And since all of that is based on phone signals, well . . . how can anyone know that Gail herself was the one using the phone? And were they using the phone, or did it just pick up a signal from a tower at that moment? That's the unknown quantity, and a major problem that I personally have with this line of conjecture, but that's just my opinion only.

    And I feel sometimes that we've been over this too many times before without getting anywhere, and therefore sometimes we need to take another approach to this case, and I don't think any line of speculation is totally off limits yet, even if it might seem unlikely.
    Again- I totally understand the frustration, and it might seem like I am beating a dead horse here... but I truly believe the key to finding Gail is her Jeep. And that involves a very specific ping trail- imo- the crossover of GPS coordinates that all coincide with the cell, the vehicle, and satellite(s).

    Obviously only my thoughts, and not trying to discount any others. I'll retreat to working on this one on my own.

  2. #797
    Quote Originally Posted by Oriah View Post
    Sorry- truly was not trying to tell others what to think or how to post. Just expressing my opinion about the MFH theory.
    It certainly could be possible.
    I just think it's a bit like looking for the zebra when there are obviously a herd of horses running around.

    Gail's phone trace did not go quiet until several days after Gail went missing. Her vehicle trace did not either. MP's vehicle trace did not go quiet for weeks. Oh, and the new car purchased? Guess what- that's GPS enabled too. And she had a cell phone as well. So we have a lot of pings going on here, kwim?

    Not trying to make light of this at all- and I have certainly seen some ridiculous measures taken to quiet folks up- but I just don't see a MFH situation going on with Gail.
    mvho.
    Oriah, here's what I'm understanding you to be saying:

    We shouldn't be looking at any theory (zebras) except your personal theory that Matt and/or Tammy murdered Gail, because you have pings for (the horse herd):

    - Matt's phone
    - Matt's vehicle GPS
    - the tracker that Gail put on Matt's vehicle
    - Tammy's phone
    - Tammy's new car
    - Gail's phone
    - Gail's vehicle GPS
    - a tracker that you know for a fact somebody did actually put on Gail's vehicle, or a tracker that you think maybe somebody might have put on Gail's vehicle but you don't know for sure

    which either do prove, or have the potential of proving, your personal theory that Matt and/or Tammy murdered Gail.

    If my understanding of what you're saying is correct, then I would say if the pings you have prove that, run, don't walk, to LE - right now! Because that's likely probable cause to have Matt and/or Tammy arrested, or at the very least, to get search warrants and subpoenas, maybe a grand jury, get this case classified as a homicide investigation, name POIs or suspects, etc etc etc.

    If the pings don't prove it then, for God's sake, give all those pings to the rest of us, so we can all study them, and see if we can prove that theory.

    If you don't have all those pings, or you don't want to give them to everybody else here, then what should the rest of us do while you study the pings and prove your personal theory?

    Not discuss any other theory? Go work on another case?

    What if, after more months of studying the pings, they show that none of them were in the same place at the same time? Or you can't get them to show anything?

    Then we will have wasted months and months we could have spent studying other theories and possibly coming up with a lead to give LE on what might may have happened to Gail.

    The important thing in these cases is not to prove one's own personal favorite theory, but to figure out the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth of what happened to the person, no matter what that may be - isn't it? I don't know. That's always my goal, because first, I want the person found, and second, justice doesn't always come in a courtroom, in which case, the only justice I know of that a victim can get is by telling their true story - literally, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth of their story, to our sincere best that we can determine that.

    But... maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying, and if that's the case, then... never mind.

  3. #798
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
    Say it ain't so! lol. Although not at the top of my theory list, I think MFH is a viable theory to at least consider. Whereas there's little to support it and much speculation is needed to make it work rendering it a longshot, I haven't ruled it out completely.

    Just my opinion, but I feel strongly that it's in the best interests of missing persons and victims to look at multiple theories.
    I completely agree, BeanE.

    Wasn't trying to say we shouldn't look at other theories. Just that MFH is currently way down on my list.
    And of course, that's MOO, I fervently hope I am wrong and Gail took off on her own, plus I am tired, lol. So probably should be taken with a grain of salt.

  4. #799
    Quote Originally Posted by Oriah View Post
    I completely agree, BeanE.

    Wasn't trying to say we shouldn't look at other theories. Just that MFH is currently way down on my list.
    And of course, that's MOO, I fervently hope I am wrong and Gail took off on her own, plus I am tired, lol. So probably should be taken with a grain of salt.
    It's not at the top of my list either, but I'm still working on it regularly, because, for me, it's the right thing to do for Gail.

  5. #800
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    Quote Originally Posted by confused View Post
    I don't recall seeing anything about Matt purchasing a new car...
    Mp and his girlfriend purchased a new car during their "business trip" up north. I'm on my iPhone so when I get to my computer I will post the link to this info.

  6. #801
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    Umm, no- not saying much of this at all- and not trying to prove a pet theory, or tell anyone to go away or look at different cases AT ALL.

    All I guess I am trying to say, essentially, is that maybe it would be helpful to try and investigate how 'pings' work- not just cell phones, not just vehicles, or devices, etc. But where they all overlay when several may be involved in a missing persons' case.

    (And my personal theory is actually not that Matt and/or Tammy murdered Gail- not sure where that is coming from?)

    Anyway- sorry to have confused and aggrevated everyone. Not my intention at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
    Oriah, here's what I'm understanding you to be saying:

    We shouldn't be looking at any theory (zebras) except your personal theory that Matt and/or Tammy murdered Gail, because you have pings for (the horse herd):

    - Matt's phone
    - Matt's vehicle GPS
    - the tracker that Gail put on Matt's vehicle
    - Tammy's phone
    - Tammy's new car
    - Gail's phone
    - Gail's vehicle GPS
    - a tracker that you know for a fact somebody did actually put on Gail's vehicle, or a tracker that you think maybe somebody might have put on Gail's vehicle but you don't know for sure

    which either do prove, or have the potential of proving, your personal theory that Matt and/or Tammy murdered Gail.

    If my understanding of what you're saying is correct, then I would say if the pings you have prove that, run, don't walk, to LE - right now! Because that's likely probable cause to have Matt and/or Tammy arrested, or at the very least, to get search warrants and subpoenas, maybe a grand jury, get this case classified as a homicide investigation, name POIs or suspects, etc etc etc.

    If the pings don't prove it then, for God's sake, give all those pings to the rest of us, so we can all study them, and see if we can prove that theory.

    If you don't have all those pings, or you don't want to give them to everybody else here, then what should the rest of us do while you study the pings and prove your personal theory?

    Not discuss any other theory? Go work on another case?

    What if, after more months of studying the pings, they show that none of them were in the same place at the same time? Or you can't get them to show anything?

    Then we will have wasted months and months we could have spent studying other theories and possibly coming up with a lead to give LE on what might may have happened to Gail.

    The important thing in these cases is not to prove one's own personal favorite theory, but to figure out the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth of what happened to the person, no matter what that may be - isn't it? I don't know. That's always my goal, because first, I want the person found, and second, justice doesn't always come in a courtroom, in which case, the only justice I know of that a victim can get is by telling their true story - literally, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth of their story, to our sincere best that we can determine that.

    But... maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying, and if that's the case, then... never mind.

  7. #802
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    This post lands at random

    This is a snip from a post that Tricia established as a rule to help with the finer points of posting, especially where there are strong opposing points of view:

    Let's talk about something that is lacking at times: Common Sense.

    Common Sense tells me if the Moderators ask for a link I will gladly provide them with one.

    Common sense tells me that I do not always have to provide a link for something that is well known.

    Let's say someone is brand new to the case and they do not know the obvious facts. Common sense would dictate that this person would say they are new and need help. Common sense would dictate that someone would provide them with a link for them to catch up.

    Common sense tells me just because I can link to something that does not make it fact.

    Do you see where I am going with this?

    We need to use common sense.

    Common sense tells me if you are in a snit and demanding links just to be a snit then I should time you out or ban you.

    Anyone is welcome to ask for a link. If someone offers an opinion DO NOT DEMAND A LINK.

    If someone states something as fact and do not provide a link it is fine to ask for it as long as you ask in the right spirit. Again, if it is something that is well known people don't need to spend their time looking for a link but if someone really doesn't know the info is well known then please politely help them.

    My common sense will let me tell who is being a jerk and who is truly wanting information.

    If you have a question please do not be afraid to ask a mod but use your common sense. If you are being difficult the mods will be able to tell. It's not that hard.
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  8. #803
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    I am closing this thread and opening another. Please continue here-

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150209"]Gail Nowacki Palmgren Thread #12[/ame]
    email me


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    Amazon: Purchase Long Lost Love $1.99


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    ― Maya Angelou

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