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  1. #1
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    Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #18

    Here you go. Now is today the day the decision comes down?

    Also, you know the rules, but in case you need a quick refresher - Attack the post - not the poster. Follow the TOS, found here: The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


    Pay particular attention to this thread about dealing with your fellow posters: Best Practices Dealing with your fellow posters - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


    Thanks,

    Salem

    Thread 17
    Last edited by KateB; 05-22-2015 at 11:42 PM. Reason: repair url tag.

  2. #2
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    Arrow

    From Barbie Nadeau's Twitter:
    Tentative Schedule for Knox/Solletio appeal, Sep 2011:



    tent #amandaknox sched:
    5/6 forensics;
    7 prosecution close;
    8 civil close;
    9 sollecito close;
    10-knox close;
    26/27 rebuttal;

    28-verdict

    So tentatively, at least, the closing and rebuttal run from the 10th-27, with the verdict on Sep 28. Let us hope it does not get protracted!

    https://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23amandaknox

  3. #3
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    Thank you SMK!

    Salem

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    Thank you SMK!

    Salem
    Most welcome!

  5. #5
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    Amanda Knox Appeal: Patrizia Stefanoni, Franceso Maresca, and Other Drama Coming September 5th

    September 2, 2011- It's like the calm before the storm. Expect a lot of fireworks from the prosecution to try and side-track the the real issue coming Monday September 5th. The issue is still the DNA that the court appointed experts have basically blasted out of the water. And the prosecution and company is now hard pressed to get around this- And for good reason.

    The DNA has been called into question from the very beginning. For those of you not up on this- simply put- the original trial court refused to have an independent review of the DNA as requested by the defense. The appeals court DID allow it and it put the prosecution in a very tight corner.
    http://amandaknoxappealforum.blogspo...stefanoni.html

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post

    otto,

    Which clothes, exactly, did Filomena say had glass on them? Her testimony to the effect that she was gnerally a neat person does not obviate the possibility that she left some clothes lying around. Look how crowded with objects her desk is; I think she just had more stuff than storage space. Also, she disturbed the room herself when she went back to fetch her computer. Her computer had glass on it as well, which she talked about brushing off, IIRC.

    How would Rudi get through the kitchen window?
    It really doesn't matter what Filomina said, does it? The police did the investigation, so what they said matters. Does it matter whether it was a sock or a shirt? We have to assume that Filomina lied in order to omit the fact that the room was ransacked before the window was broken. Why would she lie? Why did Knox and Laura not provide testimony that Filomina's bedroom always had clothes strewn all over the floor? Is it because it isn't true?

    How would the two burglars that broke into the cottage get through the kitchen window? They climbed up over the balcony using the door grate from the flat below, and crawled in through the window.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMK View Post
    From Barbie Nadeau's Twitter:
    Tentative Schedule for Knox/Solletio appeal, Sep 2011:



    tent #amandaknox sched:
    5/6 forensics;
    7 prosecution close;
    8 civil close;
    9 sollecito close;
    10-knox close;
    26/27 rebuttal;

    28-verdict

    So tentatively, at least, the closing and rebuttal run from the 10th-27, with the verdict on Sep 28. Let us hope it does not get protracted!

    https://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23amandaknox
    Here is more on the schedule (or as Google translate would have it, the "ladder" )

    Meredith case, here is the possible "ladder" of hearings;
    The ruling expected in late September-early October; Perugia, September 3, 2011


    Monday in the classroom and then, the lineup including tight until Saturday to try to 'close' the investigation and discussion in the appeal trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher, and arrive at a decision, no one dreams of 'anticipation'.

    There are two possible variants. Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday morning, the experts will answer questions of the Court (Monday) and then the consultants (Tuesday and perhaps Wednesday morning). Then - according to some - the attorney general held up the indictment on Thursday (including the intervention of the civil parties, Maresca, Perna and Pacelli).

    Friday the pleadings of the lawyers for Sollecito (Bongiorno and Maori), those of Knox Saturday (Ghirga and Dalla Vedova). Pause and technical reference to September 22 for replicas and the sentence expected between 27 and 29 of the same month. But there is another hypothesis.

    If the examination of DNA experts should you stretch and if, as seems likely, the attorney general were to request the hearing of other witnesses (if the Court admits them) final discussion would necessarily slip. Also because the Office of the prosecution and even the plaintiffs ask that the indictment and speeches occur in sequence. In this case the whole discussion might slip after September 22.
    http://www.lanazione.it/cronaca/2011..._udienze.shtml

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malkmus View Post

    Multiple problems with the "glass on top of the clothes" argument.

    1. No photos exist of said glass on clothes. It's disputed whether there was actually any.
    2. The couple articles of clothing under the window very likely could have already been there when the window was broken.
    3. Filomena removed her laptop from the room as soon as she arrived, brushing glass off it in doing so, which could have landed on the clothes.
    Again, we have to assume that Filomina lied and both Knox and Laura kept quiet about it. The laptop was on top of the clothes, so if there was glass on the laptop, then the window was broken after the laptop was placed on the floor.

  9. #9
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    Yes, I posted this link earlier, before the new thread. I feel very deeply for Meredith's sister; indeed, for her whole family. Of course she will never be forgotten, but I cannot agree that if the convictions are overturned, that this would mean she IS forgotten. No. I understand they follow the beliefs of their attorney. Though I cannot endorse it, I understand it. As the sister wisely says that they will "place their faith in the institutions of justice", I hope that IF - IF - the convictions are overturned , they view this as fitting and proper.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMK View Post
    Yes, I posted this link earlier, before the new thread. I feel very deeply for Meredith's sister; indeed, for her whole family. Of course she will never be forgotten, but I cannot agree that if the convictions are overturned, that this would mean she IS forgotten. No. I understand they follow the beliefs of their attorney. Though I cannot endorse it, I understand it. As the sister wisely says that they will "place their faith in the institutions of justice", I hope that IF - IF - the convictions are overturned , they view this as fitting and proper.
    According to the letter, it sounds like the family is having difficulties understanding why so much emphasis is placed on 2 pieces of evidence when there is blood evidence throughout the crime scene and 10,000 pages of evidence.

    "Over the last week we have waited anxiously and with great concern as the rumours surrounding the original DNA evidence findings are spreading. We find it extremely difficult to comprehend how the evidence that was so carefully developed and presented in the first hearing was valid, yet how it now seems to carry a slight chance it will become irrelevant. How can only a small amount of DNA evidence be deemed countless, when the independent review team have no answer for exactly how much should be counted? It should also [be] remembered that both parties the Prosecution and the Defence also had their own forensic teams involved in the first hearing, in addition to the Rome experts.

    The Defence teams seem to focus and rely heavily on these two pieces of DNA evidence, but can we just remember for a moment what this case is actually about, my sister, a daughter brutally and selfishly taken from us nearing 4 years ago and yet not a single day goes by that we can grasp any peace or closure. Anyone reading this or following this case, please remember our beautiful Meredith. Her blood with mixed traces spread throuh the bathroom, corridor and Filomena's bedroom as well as several blood footprints. Remember too all that other evidence that has been presented in this case so far, 10,000 pages of evidence.

    We still have confidence in the Perugia police and every faith in all those involved in court and the investigation. We ask that the Court of Appeal assess every single piece of evidence, both scientific and circumstantial as well as any witnesses who have taken the stand independently of any other information or media. Amongst the media frenzy that has developed throughout, Meredith has been forgotten because she is no longer with us, yet this should be about her and what really happened on that tragic evening. We have not forgotten her and we will continue our fight for justice with the continued support of our lawyer Francesca Maresca and his team, the Police and Prosecution and all those involved in Italy as well as everyone all over the world who still thinks of us and Mez."

    The last paragraph is about setting up an annual scholarship with the University of Perugia to offer a place for a student to live while attending the University.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    According to the letter, it sounds like the family is having difficulties understanding why so much emphasis is placed on 2 pieces of evidence when there is blood evidence throughout the crime scene and 10,000 pages of evidence.

    "Over the last week we have waited anxiously and with great concern as the rumours surrounding the original DNA evidence findings are spreading. We find it extremely difficult to comprehend how the evidence that was so carefully developed and presented in the first hearing was valid, yet how it now seems to carry a slight chance it will become irrelevant. How can only a small amount of DNA evidence be deemed countless, when the independent review team have no answer for exactly how much should be counted? It should also [be] remembered that both parties the Prosecution and the Defence also had their own forensic teams involved in the first hearing, in addition to the Rome experts.

    The Defence teams seem to focus and rely heavily on these two pieces of DNA evidence, but can we just remember for a moment what this case is actually about, my sister, a daughter brutally and selfishly taken from us nearing 4 years ago and yet not a single day goes by that we can grasp any peace or closure. Anyone reading this or following this case, please remember our beautiful Meredith. Her blood with mixed traces spread throuh the bathroom, corridor and Filomena's bedroom as well as several blood footprints. Remember too all that other evidence that has been presented in this case so far, 10,000 pages of evidence.

    We still have confidence in the Perugia police and every faith in all those involved in court and the investigation. We ask that the Court of Appeal assess every single piece of evidence, both scientific and circumstantial as well as any witnesses who have taken the stand independently of any other information or media. Amongst the media frenzy that has developed throughout, Meredith has been forgotten because she is no longer with us, yet this should be about her and what really happened on that tragic evening. We have not forgotten her and we will continue our fight for justice with the continued support of our lawyer Francesca Maresca and his team, the Police and Prosecution and all those involved in Italy as well as everyone all over the world who still thinks of us and Mez."

    The last paragraph is about setting up an annual scholarship with the University of Perugia to offer a place for a student to live while attending the University.
    Yes, I read the whole piece this morning - the scholarship is a lovely idea. They are very decent and bereaved people. Of course they must follow what their counsel has told them to be the case. I do not agree, and I do not believe freeing Knox and Sollecito will be in any way an injustice to Meredith.

  13. #13
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    I make no such assumptions

    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    Again, we have to assume that Filomina lied and both Knox and Laura kept quiet about it. The laptop was on top of the clothes, so if there was glass on the laptop, then the window was broken after the laptop was placed on the floor.
    otto,

    Filomena may be remembering what things looked like after she herself inadvertantly placed glass on her clothes after brushing it off her laptop, as Malkmus suggested. Also, if the clothes were there before the window was broken (Filomena was in a hurry that day), then her memory may be accurate with respect to the glass but the interpretation is not what the prosecution claimed.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    According to the letter, it sounds like the family is having difficulties understanding why so much emphasis is placed on 2 pieces of evidence when there is blood evidence throughout the crime scene and 10,000 pages of evidence.

    "Over the last week we have waited anxiously and with great concern as the rumours surrounding the original DNA evidence findings are spreading. We find it extremely difficult to comprehend how the evidence that was so carefully developed and presented in the first hearing was valid, yet how it now seems to carry a slight chance it will become irrelevant. How can only a small amount of DNA evidence be deemed countless, when the independent review team have no answer for exactly how much should be counted? It should also [be] remembered that both parties the Prosecution and the Defence also had their own forensic teams involved in the first hearing, in addition to the Rome experts.

    The Defence teams seem to focus and rely heavily on these two pieces of DNA evidence, but can we just remember for a moment what this case is actually about, my sister, a daughter brutally and selfishly taken from us nearing 4 years ago and yet not a single day goes by that we can grasp any peace or closure. Anyone reading this or following this case, please remember our beautiful Meredith. Her blood with mixed traces spread throuh the bathroom, corridor and Filomena's bedroom as well as several blood footprints. Remember too all that other evidence that has been presented in this case so far, 10,000 pages of evidence.

    We still have confidence in the Perugia police and every faith in all those involved in court and the investigation. We ask that the Court of Appeal assess every single piece of evidence, both scientific and circumstantial as well as any witnesses who have taken the stand independently of any other information or media. Amongst the media frenzy that has developed throughout, Meredith has been forgotten because she is no longer with us, yet this should be about her and what really happened on that tragic evening. We have not forgotten her and we will continue our fight for justice with the continued support of our lawyer Francesca Maresca and his team, the Police and Prosecution and all those involved in Italy as well as everyone all over the world who still thinks of us and Mez."

    The last paragraph is about setting up an annual scholarship with the University of Perugia to offer a place for a student to live while attending the University.
    otto,

    The claims made about about the DNA evidence from the first hearing are debatable at best. The prosecution failed to provide the defense with the electronic data files, despite multiple requests. Without them, the defense did not have a fair chance of fully rebutting the evidence. However, I thought that Sara Gino and Adriano Tagliabracci raised some very good points during the first trial (though they also made some tactical errors, IMO). The are luminol-positive footprints in the corridor; there is no good reason to assume that they are blood. Maresca ought to be ashamed of himself.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    According to the letter, it sounds like the family is having difficulties understanding why so much emphasis is placed on 2 pieces of evidence when there is blood evidence throughout the crime scene and 10,000 pages of evidence.

    "Over the last week we have waited anxiously and with great concern as the rumours surrounding the original DNA evidence findings are spreading. We find it extremely difficult to comprehend how the evidence that was so carefully developed and presented in the first hearing was valid, yet how it now seems to carry a slight chance it will become irrelevant. How can only a small amount of DNA evidence be deemed countless, when the independent review team have no answer for exactly how much should be counted? It should also [be] remembered that both parties the Prosecution and the Defence also had their own forensic teams involved in the first hearing, in addition to the Rome experts.

    The Defence teams seem to focus and rely heavily on these two pieces of DNA evidence, but can we just remember for a moment what this case is actually about, my sister, a daughter brutally and selfishly taken from us nearing 4 years ago and yet not a single day goes by that we can grasp any peace or closure. Anyone reading this or following this case, please remember our beautiful Meredith. Her blood with mixed traces spread throuh the bathroom, corridor and Filomena's bedroom as well as several blood footprints. Remember too all that other evidence that has been presented in this case so far, 10,000 pages of evidence.

    We still have confidence in the Perugia police and every faith in all those involved in court and the investigation. We ask that the Court of Appeal assess every single piece of evidence, both scientific and circumstantial as well as any witnesses who have taken the stand independently of any other information or media. Amongst the media frenzy that has developed throughout, Meredith has been forgotten because she is no longer with us, yet this should be about her and what really happened on that tragic evening. We have not forgotten her and we will continue our fight for justice with the continued support of our lawyer Francesca Maresca and his team, the Police and Prosecution and all those involved in Italy as well as everyone all over the world who still thinks of us and Mez."

    The last paragraph is about setting up an annual scholarship with the University of Perugia to offer a place for a student to live while attending the University.
    I feel for Meredith's sister but she is wrong. The reason for the trial is Meredith's murder but the trial is to determine the guilt or innocence of Raffaele and the Knox girl. If she is getting her information from the police, prosecution, and Maresca without looking at the defense appeal and the vast amount of information available on the web then she is getting only one side of things. That is unfortunate, in my opinion.

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