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Thread: The case for murder

  1. #776
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    I'm always careful to state it is my opinion.
    but you previously stated:
    I'm not incorrect as to seized property/search warrants in my own city and unless you can provide me with a link to how the Courts in Cali handle it, I stand by my belief that it is similar.
    So now that i've provided you a link that contradicts your belief that Rebecca's things belong to Jonah, why do you continue to argue and stand by it? why not post links to support your opinion?

    There are usually items booked into evidence that are not seized with a search warrant such as things gathered outside before the search warrant was executed.
    As far as I know, if you seize items from someone's property prior to getting a search warrant, you may be guilty of an illegal search unless the owner gave his/her consent.

    If any search is conducted in the absence of a search warrant, it is presumed to be unreasonable and will likely be ruled an illegal search and seizure.
    http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/c...zures-faq.html

    How can LE return property seized in a search warrant to a dead owner?
    Items in a search warrant can be considered as evidence from what i've read. And this link i provided answers your question how LE can return seized property to a dead owner:

    Can someone else pick up my property?

    For deceased owners, if you have no power of attorney or will with copy of death certificate, we will contact the Coroner to identify the next of kin (who will then be able to pick up the property)
    http://www.sacpd.org/faq/property/

    as you can see, it is the next of kin who can claim the property if the owner is deceased.

    They seized a torn shirt. How are they supposed to know who it belongs to other than the owner of the location from where it was seized?
    if that was the case, why would the LE have stated that it was Rebecca's phone? How would they have been able to do an investigation without first trying to identify which items belonged to Rebecca? maybe jonah, her friends, and her family identified the items that belonged to her. even if Rebecca lived in Jonah's property, that doesn't mean that he owned her things. He didn't own her. He wasn't even married to her nor was she an employee of his. I don't get why you continue to believe that Jonah has the legal right to Rebecca's personal belongings.That's like saying that your landlord has the legal right to own your things when you die, and not your next of kin, when everyone knows that's not the case.


    LE doesn't get involved in probate as far as I know. It is a moot point because RZ's family does have an attorney who should be able to file necessary legal requests with whichever agency they want.

    exactly. and according to their lawyer, they are in the process of doing so.

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  3. #777
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyBelle View Post
    I have no idea if LE thinks the family and Anne have been polite. They didn't sound very polite to me when they were on various cable shows accusing four agencies of California law enforcement of being unprofessional, slackers, etc.

    The family does not deserve anything more or less than what is accorded to other families. There is a legal procedure to request a new investigation yet the family has yet to make the request.

    JS and his family are victims, not suspects. My guess is that they will be ones filing the first lawsuit in this case.

    JMO
    MyBelle, never have truer words been spoken then these: 'The family does not deserve anything more or less than what is accorded to other families.'

    MyBelle, this post is not directed at you personally, but at your statement and the meaning behind it. Was justice served?

    There are just a few problems with this. Did the SDSO have a statement from the Zahau family at their website, along with Jonah's?

    Was the Zahau family given the same presentation as Jonah, in the release of information concerning the case and why they reached the conclusion they reached?

    Did the family know, prior to the press conference, that Adam Shacknai did NOT actually pass a LDT?

    Did the Zahau family see actual proof that Jonah was at Max's bedside the night Rebecca died. Oh strike this one, as LE admitted that he wasn't at Max's bedside, despite their previous statement.

    Did LE explain to the Zahau family, why Rebecca was kept on public view until 9 pm, after being 'cut down by Adam at 6:30'?

    Did LE explain how and when the crime scene was compromised and what steps were taken afterwords to ensure that the evidence was preserved for investigation purposes?

    This is but a partial list of how the Zahau family was not treated the same way as the Shacknai family. I am sure that others can add more examples.

    Maybe if justice had been merited equally between both families, the Zahau family would not have to ask for a new investigation, as they would feel comfortable with the conclusions of LE's investigation.
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  5. #778
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyBelle View Post
    Thanks but anybody can claim to be anybody else in comment sections. Godwin isn't a physician and he doesn't speak for Dr. Peterson.

    JMO

    Of course it isn't verifiable. However, it is linked to Dr. Godwin's Facebook account, so, unless this poster has been impersonating Dr. Godwin since at least 2009, then it's him. I exchanged a few PMs with him via Facebook (nope, can't prove it) and he's says he has the information because he was hired by the family.

    Whether he is a physician, or not, really is irrelevant to knowing what Dr. Peterson's current position is on the matter. If Dr. Peterson told me, "I changed my mind." I wouldn't need to be a physician to grok what he was saying. I'd just need to speak English.
    Last edited by greenpalm; 10-03-2011 at 07:00 AM.

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  7. #779
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    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by MyBelle View Post
    I'm not sure what about "probable cause" is so hard to believe. LE doesn't need a search warrant if they can see the item and believe it is related to a possible crime. For example, LE could see the rope around RZ's neck so they didn't need a search warrant to seize it or anything else they could easily see.
    but those items they seized in plain sight would still be considered as evidence so i don't get why you continue to argue that the link/info i posted about booked evidence doesn't apply in this case.

    After the insulting rhetoric and allegations RZ's family and their lawyer have lobbed against LE, they shouldn't be surprised at the lack of cooperation going forward.

    JMO
    It is the LE's responsibility to try to convince the family and the public that their findings are right, and the family should not be condemned by anyone, least of all the LE, for not believing the finding of suicide.

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  9. #780
    Quote Originally Posted by rosemary View Post
    but you previously stated:

    So now that i've provided you a link that contradicts your belief that Rebecca's things belong to Jonah, why do you continue to argue and stand by it? why not post links to support your opinion?

    As far as I know, if you seize items from someone's property prior to getting a search warrant, you may be guilty of an illegal search unless the owner gave his/her consent.

    http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/c...zures-faq.html

    Items in a search warrant can be considered as evidence from what i've read. And this link i provided answers your question how LE can return seized property to a dead owner:

    http://www.sacpd.org/faq/property/

    as you can see, it is the next of kin who can claim the property if the owner is deceased.

    if that was the case, why would the LE have stated that it was Rebecca's phone? How would they have been able to do an investigation without first trying to identify which items belonged to Rebecca? maybe jonah, her friends, and her family identified the items that belonged to her. even if Rebecca lived in Jonah's property, that doesn't mean that he owned her things. He didn't own her. He wasn't even married to her nor was she an employee of his. I don't get why you continue to believe that Jonah has the legal right to Rebecca's personal belongings.That's like saying that your landlord has the legal right to own your things when you die, and not your next of kin, when everyone knows that's not the case.

    exactly. and according to their lawyer, they are in the process of doing so.
    It takes a great deal of effort and energy to respond as you have. Something I can't seem to muster for some posts. Just wanted to say thank you for your perseverance in answering all of these.
    All of my posts are simply thought-starters and are not meant to be implications in any way, shape or form.

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  11. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by SophieRose View Post
    Looks like a rubber stamp was used.
    I have a rubber stamp of my signature too which is used for everything except for legal documents. It's still my signature so not sure why it would matter if its a rubber stamp of a verified signature.
    All of my posts are simply thought-starters and are not meant to be implications in any way, shape or form.

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  13. #782
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    Quote Originally Posted by justice be served View Post
    I have a rubber stamp of my signature too which is used for everything except for legal documents. It's still my signature so not sure why it would matter if its a rubber stamp of a verified signature.
    Exactly. The stamped signature should be the same as a verified signature, otherwise what is the point of having a stamped signature?
    Just my opinion

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  15. #783
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    Exactly. The stamped signature should be the same as a verified signature, otherwise what is the point of having a stamped signature?
    curiosjo posted that the same bold signature was posted for the financials for years 2007-2010. All I said was a rubber stamp was probably used. Never said it wasn't a verified signature.

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  17. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyBelle View Post

    Perhaps the ones in most need of a learning tool are families who believe lobbing insults and accusations of incompetence at multiple law enforcement agencies will assist them in accomplishing anything other than raising red flags about their own conduct. I think it is a very foolish strategy that will have a very disappointing outcome for the family.

    JMO
    I can hardly blame the family for feeling mistreated and angry at the police. Who wouldn't be after seeing their loved one broadcast naked on tv without even a tent to cover her body. plus, according to the family, the LE did not provide them complete information about the case, even though it is their loved one's death that the LE were dealing with. I'm sure even Jonah and his family would feel the same way if the LE had treated them the way they did Rebecca's family.

    A similar case happened in Australia in the 90's where a foreign student by the name of Jessica Chan was found dead in her apartment by police. Since there was no sign of assault on the body, and there was a high amount of morphine in her system, the coroner ruled Jessica Chan's death as suicide. The police thought so as well since they didn't find any evidence of foul play in the apartment. The husband of Jessica Chan wrote and wrote to the officials, badgering them to reopen the case and get a new investigation done. None of her family and friends believed that she had killed herself, because like Rebecca, Jessica was a Christian and was also pregnant with her first child. It took her husband one whole year to convince the officials to look at the case again. The new investigation lead to Jessica's death to be changed from suicide to murder after a new coroner examined her autopsy and felt she couldn't have killed herself in a drug overdose without having the needle right beside her when she died. The police and the previous coroner had overlooked that fact in the original investigation. Long story short, the police were finally able to catch Jessica's killer, who happened to be her doctor.

    If Jessica Chan's husband had not questioned and badgered the officials to reopen the case again, her killer would not have been caught and no one would have known that she had been murdered. Cases like these shows that the LE are not infallible, and because they are human, they can also make mistakes. That's why I don't think it wrong of the Zahaus to badger or pressure the police about the case, since the whole investigation seems to have left more questions rather than answers in Rebecca's death.


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    Justicebeserved posted a new article from RadarOnline up in the "reference" thread. Here is a clip from it (thanks, justice!):

    >>>snip

    Rebecca's sister Mary Zahau tells RadarOnline.com, "The Sheriff's Department is not answering our calls or emails. But California gives victims rights to the case file, including the police report. There is also property of Rebecca's that was taken."

    <<<snip
    Bold mine. This is inexcusable. How much time does it take to fire off an e-mail to say, "nope, nothing yet," or "get a court order?"
    If you're lucky enough to be at the beach, you're lucky enough.

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  20. #786
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post
    MyBelle, never have truer words been spoken then these: 'The family does not deserve anything more or less than what is accorded to other families.'

    MyBelle, this post is not directed at you personally, but at your statement and the meaning behind it. Was justice served?

    There are just a few problems with this. Did the SDSO have a statement from the Zahau family at their website, along with Jonah's?

    Was the Zahau family given the same presentation as Jonah, in the release of information concerning the case and why they reached the conclusion they reached?

    Did the family know, prior to the press conference, that Adam Shacknai did NOT actually pass a LDT?

    Did the Zahau family see actual proof that Jonah was at Max's bedside the night Rebecca died. Oh strike this one, as LE admitted that he wasn't at Max's bedside, despite their previous statement.

    Did LE explain to the Zahau family, why Rebecca was kept on public view until 9 pm, after being 'cut down by Adam at 6:30'?

    Did LE explain how and when the crime scene was compromised and what steps were taken afterwords to ensure that the evidence was preserved for investigation purposes?

    This is but a partial list of how the Zahau family was not treated the same way as the Shacknai family. I am sure that others can add more examples.

    Maybe if justice had been merited equally between both families, the Zahau family would not have to ask for a new investigation, as they would feel comfortable with the conclusions of LE's investigation.
    Just adding a link to my opinion:

    http://www.radaronline.com/exclusive...her-death-cops

    snips:

    The San Diego County Sheriff's Department still hasn't turned evidence in the Rebecca Zahau death case over to her grieving family, RadarOnline.com is exclusively reporting.

    Rebecca's sister Mary Zahau tells RadarOnline.com, "The Sheriff's Department is not answering our calls or emails. But California gives victims rights to the case file, including the police report. There is also property of Rebecca's that was taken."

    The Zahau family wants to conduct their own independent investigation into the mysterious death, but can't do so until the San Diego County Sheriff's Department cooperates. "We can't do anything to investigate until we get those. I am so upset and heartbroken that my sister died."


    I think this puts to rest, that the family has NOT asked for the property, or for the investigation to be reopened.
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  22. #787
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    Quote Originally Posted by justice be served View Post
    I find his signature pretty bizarre for someone in his role. My husband jokes that my signature is beyond easy to duplicate because over time of signing checks, business papers, etc, it has become just a bunch of loops. Who in the world signs like his? Bizarro.
    BBM

    Just my hunch....someone who wants to make sure everyone knows who he is. Let there be no doubt.

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  24. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdcali View Post
    BBM

    Just my hunch....someone who wants to make sure everyone knows who he is. Let there be no doubt.
    Sd, that is just plain creepy!
    ___________________

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  26. #789
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post
    It also mentions poor lighting due to the time and that they are looking at the body is less than optimum conditions, or some such. Interesting since they waited until seven flippen thirty!!!

    Also, that is why I am going to say alleged 'onefoot' print, until it is proven to actually belong to a LEO, since it is conveniently covering an unknown foot print.
    Since it appears that LE had to have a search warrant to go on the premises, I am going to take a giant leap and say that they were not given permission by the homeowner and thus had to get a search warrant.

    Wonder why that was? something to hide? clean up? whisk off the premises?

    Why else was there such a lengthy delay??

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  28. #790
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdcali View Post
    Since it appears that LE had to have a search warrant to go on the premises, I am going to take a giant leap and say that they were not given permission by the homeowner and thus had to get a search warrant.

    Wonder why that was? something to hide? clean up? whisk off the premises?

    Why else was there such a lengthy delay??
    Does anyone know the exact time the premises were sealed off with crime scene tape (thus, barring anyone but LE from accessing the scene)?

    Also - what time was the SW (41227) granted & executed?
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  30. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrell skye View Post
    Does anyone know the exact time the premises were sealed off with crime scene tape (thus, barring anyone but LE from accessing the scene)?

    Also - what time was the SW (41227) granted & executed?
    Hmmmm… I remember watching an officer unrolling some yellow crime scene tape in one of the videos. Will go look.

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  32. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrell skye View Post
    Does anyone know the exact time the premises were sealed off with crime scene tape (thus, barring anyone but LE from accessing the scene)?

    Also - what time was the SW (41227) granted & executed?
    Late Friday night, deputies stretched crime-scene tape across the front of the historic 27-room mansion on Ocean Boulevard as officers searched the house for the second time in a week.

    http://www.azcentral.com/business/ar...onado-son.html

    Whoa!! Late Friday night?? Still searching!

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  34. #793
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdcali View Post
    Since it appears that LE had to have a search warrant to go on the premises, I am going to take a giant leap and say that they were not given permission by the homeowner and thus had to get a search warrant.

    Wonder why that was? something to hide? clean up? whisk off the premises?

    Why else was there such a lengthy delay??
    You know, I remember, have no idea where it can be found, that an officer addressed the need for search warrants to be served. I don't think it had to do with the owner of the property, as much as ensuring that the chain of evidence was indeed intact. Of course, I could have been mistaken, as I have no link.
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  36. #794
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    deanna82437 is offline The dead can't cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them
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    Some great pictures here. It is a blog by a photographer who I don't think is associated with a major media outfit and was apparently on site that morning. There is one pic that shows officers moving the crime scene tape and he states it was 11:30am.

    http://www.theworldisraw.com/death-i...ckels-mansion/

    There is also an early video tape interview that's interesting.

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  38. #795
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrell skye View Post
    Does anyone know the exact time the premises were sealed off with crime scene tape (thus, barring anyone but LE from accessing the scene)?

    Also - what time was the SW (41227) granted & executed?
    Times shown are receipt and inventory of items seized at 16:26 and signed by the judge at 2:37pm. Both on 7/13

    "Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent." - Adam Smith

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  40. #796
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanna82437 View Post
    Times shown are receipt and inventory of items seized at 16:26 and signed by the judge at 2:37pm. Both on 7/13
    TY Deanna!

    So - @ 2:37 p.m. on 7/13/11, the Judge granted SW #41227 (the SW related to RZ's death).

    At 4:26 p.m. on 7/13/11, Deputy Patterson signed off on the inventory list of confirmed items seized.

    ETA: Wow - that was some mighty quick collecting of potential evidence, IMO. Two hours to search a mansion & collect items related to a possible homicide.
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  42. #797
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanna82437 View Post
    Some great pictures here. It is a blog by a photographer who I don't think is associated with a major media outfit and was apparently on site that morning. There is one pic that shows officers moving the crime scene tape and he states it was 11:30am.

    http://www.theworldisraw.com/death-i...ckels-mansion/

    There is also an early video tape interview that's interesting.
    ..in the video portion (@1:25) captain curran responds to a reporter's question of "what do you do now?"

    ..curran: "we'll be executing a search warrant on this house, probably in a few hours.."

    ..the video is shot at 11:30 a.m. LE had been on scene for hours already----why the delay in executing a S/W?

    http://www.theworldisraw.com/coronad...ansion-theory/
    my opinion...........and i happen to agree with it.....

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  44. #798
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    Searching the phone

    Quote Originally Posted by sorrell skye View Post
    TY Deanna!

    So - @ 2:37 p.m. on 7/13/11, the Judge granted SW #41227 (the SW related to RZ's death).

    At 4:26 p.m. on 7/13/11, Deputy Patterson signed off on the inventory list of confirmed items seized.

    ETA: Wow - that was some mighty quick crime scene processing, IMO. Two hours to search a mansion & collect items potentially related to a possible homicide.
    Here are a few sentences from the Search Warrant:
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7141256&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Search Warrants Unsealed Shacknai Zahau[/ame]

    Additionally, by searching the cell phone of the victim, I know that I will be able to determine recent callers to or from the victim which in my experience often leads to additional witnesses.


    This is what Officer Patterson swore to on July 13. So why did it take six weeks to really take a look at those records?

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    Quote Originally Posted by coastal View Post
    Justicebeserved posted a new article from RadarOnline up in the "reference" thread. Here is a clip from it (thanks, justice!):

    >>>snip

    Rebecca's sister Mary Zahau tells RadarOnline.com, "The Sheriff's Department is not answering our calls or emails. But California gives victims rights to the case file, including the police report. There is also property of Rebecca's that was taken."

    <<<snip
    Bold mine. This is inexcusable. How much time does it take to fire off an e-mail to say, "nope, nothing yet," or "get a court order?"
    I think it is just plain sad that she believes she is a crime victim and has some kind of rights. Her attorney needs to step in and help her.

    JMO

  47. #800
    Quote Originally Posted by Morag View Post
    Here are a few sentences from the Search Warrant:
    Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Search Warrants Unsealed Shacknai Zahau

    Additionally, by searching the cell phone of the victim, I know that I will be able to determine recent callers to or from the victim which in my experience often leads to additional witnesses.


    This is what Officer Patterson swore to on July 13. So why did it take six weeks to really take a look at those records?
    I really don't want to pick on LE, but this is another example of malfeasance unfortunately.
    All of my posts are simply thought-starters and are not meant to be implications in any way, shape or form.

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