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  1. #1
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    Details About Burke's 1/8/97 Interview

    The following information about Burke is taken word-for-word from "The Bonita Papers", a re-written voluminous collection of police reports that were copied from an attorney's private files by a legal analyst who worked in the attorney's office. The police reports were being stored by the attorney, who was on the payroll of the BPD, to keep them from the DA's office. The cops were apparently afraid the DA would turn over the information to the Ramsey's attorneys. Much of the information the tabloids used to write shocking stories on the JonBenet case came from The Bonita Papers after they purchased them from an undisclosed source.

    BURKE'S INTERVIEW

    "On January 8 John and Patsy took Burke to the Child Advocacy Center in Niwot, Colorado, through arrangements made by the Boulder Police Department, to be interviewed by Dr. Suzanne Bernhard, a specialist in child psychology. As is customary in interrogations of children, Dr. Bernhard played a game with Burke throughout the interview and the entire interview was videotaped.

    "When left alone with the psychologist, Burke appeared to be at ease and even told the doctor that he felt safe, even though he did say say that he had wanted to come that day. Dr. Bernhard thought it was unusual for this child to feel safe. People in this entire town didn't feel safe with the concept that someone was running around that could be snatching children, and this was his own sister and happened in his own home. Generally speaking, a child who goes through this kind of trauma, where a sibling or a family member has been killed, they don't feel safe.

    "Burke described his father as quiet and that he was always at work, and his mother worked as a mom. The thing he liked most about his mom was that she gave him lots of hugs and kisses, and the thing he liked most about his dad were planes. Thoughout the interview he showed little warmth towards his family, but at the same time was very protective of them. According to Burke, the worst thing they did was not buy him expensive toys. Dr. Bernhard explained that most children in interviews will discuss things about the family that angers them even if they love them, but Burke appeared to have difficulty in opening up about his family, similar to children who can't say things because they feel that there are some things they shouldn't say.

    "Social Services had previously provided Dr. Bernhard with some history on Burke which indicated an ongoing bedwetting problem, but Burke denied this saying that it happened a long time ago. Children are usually honest about this in interviews, and Dr. Bernhard wondered why Burke was not.

    "Many of Burke's other responses also created areas of concern for the doctor. Burke displayed an enormous amount of lack of emotion, almost to the point of indifference, which Dr. Bernhard explained may be attributed to shock, but could also have been a lack of attachment to his family. Since his mother had appeared very emotional when she brought Burke for the interview, Dr. Bernhard thought that perhaps Burke could not deal with the family's emotions and had therefore just withdrawn. Even in response to questions which should have elicited strong emotions, he remained non-expressive. When asked how have things been since your only sister died, Burke responded it's been okay. And when asked if he missed her, he said yep. Burke continuously told Dr. Bernhard that he tried to forget about things and just play his Nintendo.

    "When asked to draw a picture of his family, he drew a father figure who was distanced from Burke, a mother figure which was the smallest figure in the picture, and JonBenet was not in the picture at all. Dr. Bernhard interpreted the drawing to suggest that Burke felt his father was not emotionally available to him and his mother was insignificant and did not have a great deal of power. Dr. Bernhard thought it extremely abnormal that JonBenet was not in the family picture at all, since her death had occurred only 13 days prior. Most children continue to include deceased siblings in family drawings years after the death because it is too devastating for them to think about the loss. Burke also told Dr. Bernhard that he was getting on with his life, another very abnormal reaction for a child who had so recently lost his sibling.

    "When specifically discussing the crime, he related that he did not hear any noises that night and that he was asleep, but he admitted that he usually hears when someone opens the refrigerator door downstairs. Dr. Bernhard asked what he thought happened to his sister. Burke, showing the first signs of of irritation during the interview, responded, I know what happened, she was killed. Burke's explanation to the doctor was someone took her quietly and took her down in the basement, took a knife out or hit her on the head. He said that the only thing he asked his dad was where did you find the body, a highly unusual query from a child considering the possible questions a child might ask about the death of a sibling.

    "Dr. Bernhard felt there needed to be more follow-up with Burke in the discussion of sexual contact. The only show of emotion by Burke, other than the irritation with the questions about the actual crime, was when Dr. Bernhard began to ask about uncomfortable touching. Burke picked up a board game and put it on his head, an action indicating anxiety or discomfort with these types of questions and that there was more that he was not telling her. Dr. Bernhard asked Burke if he had any secrets, and he said probably, if I did, I wouldn't tell you, because then it wouldn't be a secret."

    Just my opinion.

    BlueCrab

  2. #2
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    thank you once again BC - you always have the best information...

  3. #3
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    BC,could you explain the source of this information ,perhaps I misundertand something. You are saying, in a legal office, an employee, took it upon themselves to look at office notes, and then create and paraphrase for us the "gist" of what they saw in the form of this letter?
    Where is BrotherMoon, I would prefer to hear about "doin' skulls" than see this kind of thing put across as factual information.

  4. #4
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    Sissi,

    What you state is basically correct. Here's more info:

    Bonita Sauer, attorney Larry Pozner's legal assistant at the time, stole the police files from Pozner's office, copied them, and returned the originals. She intended to use the information to write a book on the case, and that's why they are in the form that I posted above as the lead-in for this thread.

    Bonita allegedly sent them to a nephew in Oregon, who turned around and sold them to the tabloids. The papers were under the control of Dan Hoffman, one of Pozner's lawfirm partners, when Bonita took them. The BPD had hired Hoffman and two other attorneys to help them with the case. No charges were ever filed against Bonita Sauer for copying the files or for anyone selling the files, although I understand some people are upset about it and want charges filed, including Fleet White.

    JMO

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    Thank you Bluecrab! Great info - goes into more detail than Schiller did.
    Although his account in his book is obviously gleaned from this report as parts of it are almost exact wording.

    Sissi - perhaps you are just a bit upset because this information on Burke is not what you wanted to hear?

    This again reminds me of Linda Arndt's statement of how families of incest have a certain dysfunction and that ALL the member have a "role."

    I found something interesting in that report. Burke mentions as the one thing that makes him mad as his parents not buying him "expensive toys."
    This murder happened on Christmas. A day when for children the main focus is getting new TOYS.
    I am wondering if Burke was disappointed on Christmas and did not get something he really wanted - but saw that JonBenet did. And it festered in him. An already present jealousy of her always getting more attention and "everything she wants" (as kids like to say).
    Could this have precipitated Burke lashing out in a rage at her?
    He certainly wasn't afraid after the murder and certainly had no real emotion regarding his sister being murdered either.
    And it is just curious to me that his parents not getting him expensive toys is on his mind just 13 days after Christmas.....

    If you have never read the book, "High Risk: Children Without a Conscience" I would recommend it. It is very sad and very scary. But we unfortunately see it alot today. And it is not just underpriveleged kids - it is often kids who are "indulged." An insidious form of child abuse. And more common today with families only having one or two children as opposed to years ago having larger families with less opportunity (or money) to spoil.
    This post is my opinion.

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=K777angel]Thank you Bluecrab! Great info - goes into more detail than Schiller did.
    Although his account in his book is obviously gleaned from this report as parts of it are almost exact wording.

    Sissi - perhaps you are just a bit upset because this information on Burke is not what you wanted to hear?


    I'm not a "bit" upset, I don't believe anything so "third" hand should be in print, I am "Very" upset. It's been very difficult to keep the facts straight, as you can read in the Arndt deposition, everyone's words have been twisted to fit theories for media release. If direct police reports don't make it into interviews and depositions intact , can you expect "old notes" to be different?
    IMO this is slanderous to continue to hold Burke Ramsey up as the murderer of his sister. imo

    BTW I would like to know if anyone heard the "early" rumor that Burke was aspergers?

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=sissi]
    Quote Originally Posted by K777angel
    Sissi - perhaps you are just a bit upset because this information on Burke is not what you wanted to hear?


    I'm not a "bit" upset, I don't believe anything so "third" hand should be in print, I am "Very" upset. It's been very difficult to keep the facts straight, as you can read in the Arndt deposition, everyone's words have been twisted to fit theories for media release. If direct police reports don't make it into interviews and depositions intact , can you expect "old notes" to be different?
    IMO this is slanderous to continue to hold Burke Ramsey up as the murderer of his sister. imo

    BTW I would like to know if anyone heard the "early" rumor that Burke was aspergers?
    sissi - The gist of this psychologist's report on Burke Ramsey's interview was written in Lawrence Schiller's book - and NEVER disputed by any Ramsey, Ramsey attorney or anyone else.

    What Arndt complained about in reality was that the BPD did not accept her theory that incest was behind the murder and that John Ramsey was the perp. She was offended and irritated that her expertise and background in sexual assault crimes was disregarded in offering up her theory.

    The psychologist's report does NOT "hold Burke Ramsey up as the murderer of his sister" as you put it. It merely states that there are some very disturbing red flags with this young man and further investigation is warranted. Duh.

    If anyone has a taped copy of the first crock with Bill Kurtis on the Ramsey case, I urge you to play to the part where the suggestion of Burke being involved is discussed. On screen at one point you can see a form regarding Burke from Social Services. It is not on screen for very long and so you need to pause it or put your VCR on slow motion in order to try and read what is written. I posted about this years ago and plan to go back and watch it again. There appears to be a reference in this paper of some incident involving Burke reported prior to 12/26/96. Can anyone else see this??
    This post is my opinion.

  8. #8
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    I wasn't referring to Arndt's being upset about no one buying into her theory, I was just looking at the facts as she reported them and the twists they took in the deposition questioning. She never said John went out of the house, she said he was reading his mail, however it hit the media as "he was missing,left the home" which was not strange for a media report, however when she was questioned and asked about this incident during her deposition she said, "I never said that", I only said he was reading mail". I wouldn't have expected her report to take that twist by LE, yet it did. There is no choice but to believe there were many others, whose words were twisted to fit the theories of the LE that were in control. Another example , John saying he read in bed, it was reported by LE as he read to Jonbenet that night. Too much fiction for me! IMO

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by K777angel
    If anyone has a taped copy of the first crock with Bill Kurtis on the Ramsey case, I urge you to play to the part where the suggestion of Burke being involved is discussed. On screen at one point you can see a form regarding Burke from Social Services. It is not on screen for very long and so you need to pause it or put your VCR on slow motion in order to try and read what is written. I posted about this years ago and plan to go back and watch it again. There appears to be a reference in this paper of some incident involving Burke reported prior to 12/26/96.

    Angel,

    Social Services was definitely involved with Burke BEFORE JonBenet's death, because The Bonita Papers say Social Sevices gave Dr. Bernhard some advance information on him, including that he has or had a bedwetting problem (which Burke seemed to deflect in responding to Dr. Bernhard's inquiry).

    JMO

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    Angel,

    Social Services was definitely involved with Burke BEFORE JonBenet's death, because The Bonita Papers say Social Sevices gave Dr. Bernhard some advance information on him, including that he has or had a bedwetting problem (which Burke seemed to deflect in responding to Dr. Bernhard's inquiry).

    JMO
    Yet another rumor. Don't you think LHP would have jumped in on this one, to report on Burke's bedwetting? This is yet another rumor. Burke wet the bed until age 6 or 7, as reported by both current and past housekeepers.
    There was no SS involvement before the murder. This is why I suggest the Bonita papers are pure fiction. IMO


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissi
    Yet another rumor. Don't you think LHP would have jumped in on this one, to report on Burke's bedwetting? This is yet another rumor. Burke wet the bed until age 6 or 7, as reported by both current and past housekeepers.
    There was no SS involvement before the murder. This is why I suggest the Bonita papers are pure fiction. IMO
    Sissi - you cannot make a statement as fact like you did: "There was no SS involvement before the murder."
    How do YOU know that?
    This post is my opinion.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissi
    I wasn't referring to Arndt's being upset about no one buying into her theory, I was just looking at the facts as she reported them and the twists they took in the deposition questioning. She never said John went out of the house, she said he was reading his mail, however it hit the media as "he was missing,left the home" which was not strange for a media report, however when she was questioned and asked about this incident during her deposition she said, "I never said that", I only said he was reading mail". I wouldn't have expected her report to take that twist by LE, yet it did. There is no choice but to believe there were many others, whose words were twisted to fit the theories of the LE that were in control. Another example , John saying he read in bed, it was reported by LE as he read to Jonbenet that night. Too much fiction for me! IMO
    Keep in mind that John Ramsey himself in his first interview with police admitted that he WAS missing for a period of time - down in the basement that morning. He also read the mail that morning.
    So - he was missing for awhile (Only God knows what he actually did down there) and he read the mail.
    Also keep in mind that the Bonita papers are NOT "media" reports like the one you quote from Vanity Fair above.

    And do you really think that a John Ramsey denial of something incriminating he said - and NOT just to one officer that morning mind you - is trustworthy??
    LOL!!!
    It is VERY different to state that the reading involved the kidnapped daughter the night before - and a benign "I read when I went to bed."
    It is not the first time John Ramsey got caught in an incriminating statement and had to backtrack to cover himself.
    He's smart - but he's not invincable.

    Apparently if you consider Linda Arndt such a trustworthy witness and accept what she stated in her deposition - you accept ALL that she stated in her deposition. You cannot have it both ways.
    So you must believe that a lot of suspicious activity took place that day regarding John and Patsy Ramsey. And you must believe that John Ramsey had an incestuous relationship with his daughter and ended up killing her.
    That's what Linda Arndt believes based on what she SAW and stated in her deposition.
    This post is my opinion.

  13. #13
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    Unhappy Sissi Really

    Quote Originally Posted by sissi
    BC,could you explain the source of this information ,perhaps I misundertand something. You are saying, in a legal office, an employee, took it upon themselves to look at office notes, and then create and paraphrase for us the "gist" of what they saw in the form of this letter?
    Where is BrotherMoon, I would prefer to hear about "doin' skulls" than see this kind of thing put across as factual information.

    Really Sissi,
    I think your just really pissed that someone has a opinion that does not match your own...

    I am very happy that BlueCrab has brought these notes to light , You are always asking for him to source---- so get over it... Blue sourced!!!!!


    I am on the fence about this case but, Bluecrab makes alot of sense about Burke.

    Lets give him a chance with out you breaking down his sources..


    Maybe you would enjoy posting Jameson's swamp forum?? Where you can only post NON Ramsey involvement. Just Pay your 50 bucks and post away.

    If not let all points of view and sourced INFO in!!

    Sure I enjoy your post on views of non Ramsey involvement but, You have not always sourced your info...

    I don't understand your problem

    Your reference to Brother Moon is just madness. Whats the deal behind that silliness? After all the sick posts and personal attacks Moon has made against us all, maybe your Akin to his personal ideas?

    I am very disappointed with you Sissi--- I expected more tolerance.

    This is just my opinion of course.

  14. #14
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    I don't find anything particularly odd about Burke's behavior according to this "info". The thing says "MOST" children respond such and such a way...etc.....that does not mean every child will respond the way they think they should.

    Burke just strikes me as being one of these children that kind of live in their own little world. We had a neighborhood boy that was like that. We always thought he was odd. He enjoyed playing alone, always had looks on his face as if he were "somewhere else", and he turned out fine. Maybe it is just the personality Burke has.

    I just don't see anything in this "report" to indicate he was covering up the murder of his sister. Maybe you guys do, I just don't see it...YET! I will read more later. I would like to know more about children's psychology and behaviors before I make any more comments on this topic anyway.

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    Tressa Ring quote...Your reference to Brother Moon is just madness. Whats the deal behind that silliness? After all the sick posts and personal attacks Moon has made against us all, maybe your Akin to his personal ideas?

    I am very disappointed with you Sissi--- I expected more tolerance.


    You expect me to tolerate what? Slandering a child on an internet web site?
    Brother moon is "attacking" adults, this thread is "attacking" a child, I was just pointing out the "thinking".

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