Identified! MT - Carbon Co, WhtMale 15-32, UP8932, skull, femur, pelvic, Asymmetrical Nose, Jun'04 - Roger Lee Ellis

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I didn't find a dedicated thread for either this UID or my proposed match although the victim is discussed in several threads as a potential victim of either Rodney Alcala or the Lewis and Clark Valley serial killer.

I see some strong similarities with this UID and Gayla Christine Schraper, missing 1979. The UID was a skull only find determined to have died 2001 or prior. Your thoughts?

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/582ufmt.html

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/16dfid.html
 
I didn't find a dedicated thread for either this UID or my proposed match although the victim is discussed in several threads as a potential victim of either Rodney Alcala or the Lewis and Clark Valley serial killer.

I see some strong similarities with this UID and Gayla Christine Schraper, missing 1979. The UID was a skull only find determined to have died 2001 or prior. Your thoughts?

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/582ufmt.html

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/16dfid.html


The Namus web site says Probable year of death 2001 to 2004 for this UID. Gayla has been missing since 1979.

https://identifyus.org/cases/8932

Did you create a thread for Gayla Christine Schraper?
 
Case Report - NamUs UP # 8932
Status: Unidentified Case number 20040565
Date found June 20, 2004 at 12:00 AM
Date created July 18, 2011 at 04:37 PM
Date last modified August 31, 2011 at 05:37 PM
Date QA reviewed July 19, 2011 at 04:55 AM

Local Medical Examiner/Coroner Contact
Agency Carbon Cnty Coroners Ofc
Phone 406-446-1234
Email trieger@co.carbon.mt.us

Case Manager
Name Dan Mcjunkin
Email dmcjunkin@co.carbon.mt.us

DemographicsEstimated age Adult - Pre 40
Minimum age 15 years
Maximum age 32 years
Race White
Ethnicity
Sex: Female
Weight (pounds) 135, Estimated
Height (inches) 65, Estimated

Body condition:
Not recognizable - Partial skeletal parts only

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Probable year of death 2001 to 2004
Estimated postmortem interval 3 Years

Circumstances
Location Found:
State Montana
County Carbon

Circumstances of death:
hiker located human skull south of Red Lodge, femur and Pelvic bone located at later time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Distinctive features as described below

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fingerprint information is currently not available
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clothing and Accessories:
No clothing or accessories

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
X-rays available
Models available
Photographs available

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One or more teeth present
Filling or crown present
Upper jaw present
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DNA: Complete and entered
Type mtDNA
National missing persons DNA Database
Reference # 62d-su-60356
Lab ORI 041222030 ks nz
 
I didn't find a dedicated thread for either this UID or my proposed match although the victim is discussed in several threads as a potential victim of either Rodney Alcala or the Lewis and Clark Valley serial killer.

I see some strong similarities with this UID and Gayla Christine Schraper, missing 1979. The UID was a skull only find determined to have died 2001 or prior. Your thoughts?

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/582ufmt.html

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/16dfid.html

I created a new thread for Gayla...
 
She certainly looks very similar, and the nose is asymmetrical in the same way and on the same side. Not a lot else to go on.
 

Attachments

  • amber cates with carbon county MT JD.png
    amber cates with carbon county MT JD.png
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Here's the approximate location where she was found, according to Doenet: about 15 miles south of Red Lodge off of U.S. Highway 212 in Carbon County, MT.

https://goo.gl/maps/ySYCQ

This section of road is known locally as the Beartooth Highway and climbs rapidly up the side of the valley at roughly 5000' altitude to over 8000' at the summit. I don't know whether this link will work; it shows the view from near the top. View from Rock Creek Vista. If you let it play through to the end, it shows the view back down the mountain toward the general area where the remains would have been found.
 
Could this be Amber Cates? Asymmetrical nose, and the bottom left photo looks very similar.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/cates_amber.html

I still have the dental chart for this Jane Doe from when the UP casefiles still showed dentals.

All teeth (including wisdom teeth) are marked "N" (indicating natural unrestored teeth), except her upper first and second molars (#2, #3, #14, and #15), which are marked "O" (indicating "Other" described in comments section).

The description indicates that all four of these teeth are "restored", but it is not clear what material the restorations consist of. I would think if they were restored with fillings, they would be marked "F". Perhaps they are restored with some other material.

Amber Cates is said to have only two fillings, and it doesn't say which teeth are filled. If the two fillings were on either 2, 3, 14, or 15, it wouldn't technically be a rule out. But there would have to have been a dental appointment unknown to her family or her regular dentist.

I would say the assymmetrical nose and consistent height and age make this an interesting possible. But the bones are said to have been in that location for 3 years, compared to the 2 month timeframe between Amber's Date LKA and the discovery of the bones.
 
I still have the dental chart for this Jane Doe from when the UP casefiles still showed dentals.

All teeth (including wisdom teeth) are marked "N" (indicating natural unrestored teeth), except her upper first and second molars (#2, #3, #14, and #15), which are marked "O" (indicating "Other" described in comments section).

The description indicates that all four of these teeth are "restored", but it is not clear what material the restorations consist of. I would think if they were restored with fillings, they would be marked "F". Perhaps they are restored with some other material.

Amber Cates is said to have only two fillings, and it doesn't say which teeth are filled. If the two fillings were on either 2, 3, 14, or 15, it wouldn't technically be a rule out. But there would have to have been a dental appointment unknown to her family or her regular dentist.

I would say the assymmetrical nose and consistent height and age make this an interesting possible. But the bones are said to have been in that location for 3 years, compared to the 2 month timeframe between Amber's Date LKA and the discovery of the bones.


I could see where it'd be confusing...
She (UID) has all her molars including wisdom teeth as well as "restorations" to her other teeth. (If I'm reading you correctly.) I know that in 1999-2000 they used resin and acrylic/bonding material to replace the natural tooth in my upper fronts and eye teeth, and billed them to insurance as "fillings". Sometimes they'd do that to "save" the tooth, than root canals, partials or fillings. But I agree that they would have made her a "follow-up" appointment to remove those wisdom teeth, unless she was missing a few molars and the wisdom teeth were keeping the pressure on her other teeth to keep them from shifting. (I had to have my first molars pulled and that's what they recommended for me.) He said "We're going to keep your wisdom teeth as long as possible." JMO
Looking at her dental chart, is it safe to presume that she's 15 to 25 years of age?
 
Looking at her dental chart, is it safe to presume that she's 15 to 25 years of age?

These aren't x-rays, they are just a chart. There's no way to estimate age just from a chart

If it said that the wisdom teeth were UN-erupted, you would guess they were probably younger than 19-20. But that's not the case here. The wisdom teeth are indicated as "N", but it doesn't indicate how completely the wisdom teeth have erupted. The 15-year low-end estimate is probably based on the fact that the wisdom teeth are showing at all.
 
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Could she be Mary Loiuse Day?
I am a stickler for details. The raised <-- nostril on these pictures (both) are hard to ignore.
Re: The UID , per the Can You Identify Me Page, it states: she had an asymmetrical nose with one nostril higher than the other. She is of Caucasian European ancestry.
http://canyouidentifyme.org/CarbonMo...aneDoeJune2004

Most who are familiar with Mary Day's profile, know that there are scant details, maybe this one was also over looked?
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/6003/6/

This picture of Mary is obvious to be of when she was quite young, the picture of her as a teen is completely blurry and hard to see. I think this is a trait, and not caused by a facial smirk, as her lips are not turned upward on either side to indicate so.

Thoughts?
 
Bumping for Jane Doe. Her profile was updated in August, but I can't figure out what changed.
 
Has Mary Day been located? The link above is returning a permission error.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

Whoa. Maybe! Here's her thread:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Seaside-1980/page5&highlight=Mary+Louise+Day

Mary's half brother recently posted there and said there had been a DNA match to a living person who was using Mary's SSN, but apparently they could not determine if the person was Mary or a sister. Seems complicated, but maybe Namus finally determined it was her? :thinking:
 

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