1539 users online (273 members and 1266 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 31 to 41 of 41
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    1,153
    I was just thinking, I wonder if she followed the Casey Anthony trial and knows that because of that verdict a jury is a) much less likely to convict without a body b) she can tell a million different stories and still get away with it and c) if he's found dead and the remains don't reveal the manner of death, the jury won't convict on 1st degree murder or she can say it was an accident. I think it would be interesting to find out if she spoke to anyone about Casey Anthony and followed her blueprint so to speak.
    Some people do crossword puzzles or Soduko in their spare time...I look at skeletal reconstructions and work on UID puzzles. I swear I'm not this morbid in person!

    Help Fred Murray find his daughter and bring her home. He should not be walking those woods alone!
    What Happened to Maura Murray? http://www.mauramurraymissing.com

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    516
    Big difference is G was last seen with EJ in her care. So if a body was found, and showed a death date of around the time EJ was last seen with him, I have no doubt she would be found guilty because of her admission. Now, i do not believe he is deceased and there are so many people looking for him that it is unlikely he will not be found.

    As for CAsey Anthony....She is living in her own prison and I think where detective messed up was not figuring out where that heart sticker was purchased and by who. THat would have linked sick Casey ANthony to the body. Also, the Duck tape. Ends match up. CAsey is living in her own prison and that is fine with me. SHe can't even hardly be seen because of the amount of people who are pissed she got off. She will never be able to live a normal life. So for that, I am okay with her not being incarcerated because then taxpayers don't have to pay for her nasty self.
    "Be part of something bigger than yourself"
    "As I have walked through this lifetime, I have realized things are not as they seem. People are not as they seem. Only clues are given about their secret lives and their loved ones are shocked even though the signs were there. Tread carefully in this lifetime and act swiftly to protect yourself and the ones you love."

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    In my own reality...it's nicer here.
    Posts
    12,006
    Quote Originally Posted by future criminologist View Post
    Not at all OT...I think that's a really interesting angle to bring up that I wouldn't have thought of. We know she was a good student, she probably thinks she's smarter than everyone else so throw in some literary/historic references and thinks it'll fly right over people's heads. It's an "I'm so much smarter than all of you" aspect of her personality. Kudos for the observation.
    Well so far she has been, I mean we're no closer to finding Gabriel today than we were two and a half years ago. I don't think he's dead, I think he's very much alive, either hidden away by friends of Tammi or friends of Elizabeth, or perhaps in an adoptive family, although I have serious doubts that he has been adopted, as I can't imagine a family not coming forward if they are aware of the circumstances surrounding their child's adoption.

    Interesting though that she chose to quote Victor Hugo...

    À Villequier

    Alas! turning an envious eye towards the past,
    unconsolable by anything on earth,
    I keep looking at that moment of my life
    when I saw her open her wings and fly away!

    I will see that instant until I die,
    that instant—too much for tears!
    when I cried out: "The child that I had just now--
    what! I don't have her any more!"

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    55
    yes her letters were hard to read with all the rambling, but i made it through them. i am trying to catch up on details from this case before the trial starts. i watched all of TS trial livestream from michigan and plan to do the same for EJ.

    she never mentions anyone looking for the people who have Gabriel. i think she has convinced herself that she gave him away and that is that. she really killed him. IMO

    she mixes the small truths with big lies. she loved leading TS and JS on about adoption, and loved hanging Gabriel over LM's head/heart. i think she lied in about 80% of her writings but may believe she is telling her "true story."

    she has issues with every single relationship in her life. i take that back because i really don't know anything about her TWIN brother. being a twin, you would think she would talk a bit more about her brother in her ramblings, but then again i have no info on him.

    i really think that if someone really had Gabriel, they would of come forward by now because of the high profile of this story. Gabriel would of been identified by someone by know if he was living with a family anywhere in the USA. JMO

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,353
    Quote Originally Posted by future criminologist View Post
    Yet...she ended up in foster care as neither parent was capable of getting past their own needs (drugs and alcohol) to serve hers. She learned or inherited this narcissism, and also learned how easy it is so discard people with no emotion early in life. And if you start off life in survival mode all the time, your brain is going to develop to react that way and you are going to stay in it whether you need to or not. I know this firsthand from having a narcissistic mother who grew up in extreme poverty with a neglectful mother herself. There's a reflex/instinct to save oneself at all costs in any situation that can't be easily overcome.

    She is such a fascinating case, I just want to study her.
    Thanks for that excellent depiction of what makes a NPD and BPD'd person tick. It cuts to the chase, describes perfectly in so few words and much better than most books in their entirety.

    Your description brings back my deepest sympathy and deep regret for all children left wanting. It's just so hard to maintain that tolerance and understanding over the long term when they become adults and trample the rights of others in their quest for their own sense of security.

    Are there any folks out there with good tips on how to keep such a person in one's life without wearing down and becoming disdainful? I'm in personal need of that information.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    The Locked Room
    Posts
    2,812
    The way she overuses apostrophes really annoys me. Elizabeth -They show possesion. They aren't needed to make the plural form of "perfectionist," "control freak," etc.

    She also uses some big words (that she misspells).

    At least Casey Anthony had better handwriting and grammar. That's about all I can say. And yeah, I'm being snarky. Sorry.
    "All your life, all your love, all your hate, all your memory, all your pain, it was all the same thing. It was all the same dream—a dream that you had inside a locked room. A dream about being a person.” - True Detective

    Help Save the Next Girl. http://helpsavethenextgirl.com

    Help Find Shane Fell. Http://helpfindshanefell.com

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by OneLove View Post
    Thanks for that excellent depiction of what makes a NPD and BPD'd person tick. It cuts to the chase, describes perfectly in so few words and much better than most books in their entirety.

    Your description brings back my deepest sympathy and deep regret for all children left wanting. It's just so hard to maintain that tolerance and understanding over the long term when they become adults and trample the rights of others in their quest for their own sense of security.

    Are there any folks out there with good tips on how to keep such a person in one's life without wearing down and becoming disdainful? I'm in personal need of that information.
    I have always found the materials of Dr. Sam Vaknin (a narcissist himself) to be fascinating. For me, his theoretical framework has gone a long way toward allowing a better understanding of how the narcissistic mind ticks. He does offer some suggestions regarding how to live with a narcissist, but I think the bottom line is generally that they can't be cured or significantly changed... so it's the person who wants to (or has to) live with one that has to adapt.


    http://samvak.tripod.com/
    If I can stop one heart from breaking,
    I shall not live in vain;
    If I can ease one life the aching,
    Or cool one pain,
    Or help one fainting robin
    Unto his nest again,
    I shall not live in vain.
    ~Emily Dickinson~

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    9,937
    Quote Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
    I see no signs whatever of mental illness. Incredible self absorption. Complete lack of caring for anyone else. But no hallucinations or anything. Completely oriented to where she is, what's going on around her, and has an excellent understanding of the legal processes going on.

    The only thing I see that interferes with her ability to assist in her defense is her intentional choice not to cooperate with her defense - the people who are trying to assist her. That's not mental illness. That's a plain and simple choice she's making. They're going above and beyond to try to help her to protect her rights. She's choosing to thwart their efforts. She says over and over and over she knows she shouldn't be writing to the judge.

    I wonder if all the psychiatrists got to see these letters.
    (I know I'm responding over a year later but with the trial going on, I'm rereading this thread)

    mental illness, no ... personality disorder, yes. Her & tammi together = two huge personality disorders & a disaster waiting to happen

  9. #39
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Anaheim, CA
    Posts
    13,253
    Quote Originally Posted by 2goldfish View Post
    reading through these....two things surprised me. first, I am actually on the fence now as to what she's done with gabriel. I was sure from the beginning she'd killed him and right now I am not so sure...it's the way she talks about gabriel when she does talk about him....I remind myself that OCA talked similarly of caylee in her jailhouse letters and it didnt mean a thing - of course, there is reason to believe gabriel was given away rather than murdered in this case....so I am on the fence now for the first time.

    the second thing that surprised me is that I have some sympathy for EJ that I never had for OCA or other similar cases. I think EJ is extremely mentally ill. some of it is for show but most of it I think is true illness. this is not to say that I think she is incapable of helping her defense, she's clearly refusing rather than unable, although a more sympathetic person than I would say she is refusing because she is unable...but I dont think that's the case.
    First, I can't believe I missed these letters (as well as the trial)! I followed this case from the beginning and now miss this?

    Second, IMO, if Gabriel was alive, there would have been some sign, in phone or text or computer records, of communication between EJ or TPS and some person or persons looking for a child. This was a murder investigation. If there was something to be found, LE would have found it. But, there was nothing.

    I think the letters show a profoundly disturbed and intelligent sociopath. She is frightening. She told Logan she killed Gabriel because he was with other girls. I think that's exactly what this angry nut did.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneLove View Post
    It seems she really emotionally engaged with Salame and I do believe she purged her soul and spilled her guts to him. Her own letters detail how frightened she became afterwards when her attorneys convinced her she had just damaged her "case" and how betrayed she felt. She even alludes to how good looking and desirable he was, how his physical mannerisms towards her were, in her own mind, like 'boyfriend-girlfriend'. Somehow, he really knew how to work her to get her to talk and it worked. I believe Salame may be the only living person besides EJ that knows what really happened.

    Her constant insistence at sending her silly trivial whining letters directly to the judge is laughably a textbook narcissistic move. She makes it clear it is to get the MAXIMUM attention because the judge is then required to log it and share it around and EJ thinks the media craves her junky little whining notes.

    The best thing I can see coming out of all these letters is that she conveys in them that her worst fear and dread is being in psychiatric lockup and that is EXACTLY where these very letters put her. She clearly loathes the thought of facing the world from a sane perspective, is very attached to her 2-year-oldish fixation of herself as the center of the universe, and speaks quite often about 'conquering' people. Oh yeah, EJ, you're quite the conquering thing, caged like a rat with no freedoms at all.

    I gained an interesting view of her childhood from her own eyes in her writings. She says her mother adored her and thought she could do no wrong ever and defended her (took her side) no matter WHAT. I guess this tells us how to successfully breed a self-righteous sense of entitlement and possibly impair a child for life?
    Bingo. I caught the same thing. Spoil the you know what out of your child (and then subject them to a precarious existence) and this is what can happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneLove View Post
    Thanks for that excellent depiction of what makes a NPD and BPD'd person tick. It cuts to the chase, describes perfectly in so few words and much better than most books in their entirety.

    Your description brings back my deepest sympathy and deep regret for all children left wanting. It's just so hard to maintain that tolerance and understanding over the long term when they become adults and trample the rights of others in their quest for their own sense of security.

    Are there any folks out there with good tips on how to keep such a person in one's life without wearing down and becoming disdainful? I'm in personal need of that information.
    It's not about narcissism but I think it would work for it as well. It's called Understanding the Borderline Mother. It gives clear instructions to adults as to how to deal with a personality disordered relation. Essentially, you treat them like children and set firm boundaries.
    For Elizabeth, a minor child, a victim. Thank God she is home!

    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,232
    Gitana-

    I was just rereading her letters myself. Elizabeth's writings about her mother don't really track reality. Her mother was an alcoholic, in trouble with the law, and in fact used the alias "Jones" as EJ did in SA. I think her foster care placements in Boston were while her mother was still alive because she moved to AZ after her death. IMO, Elizabeth has tried to deal with her mother's alcohol issues by re-characterizing neglect as indulgent affection. I can imagine how confused and conflicted she was about her role as a mother when Gabriel was born.

    btw- EJ's mother drowned when Elizabeth was 12 and she used to lie about that. Instead of telling a true (and very sad) story, she told people her mother had been gunned down on the street in front of her and her twin.


    moo


  11. #41
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Anaheim, CA
    Posts
    13,253
    Quote Originally Posted by saba View Post
    Gitana-

    I was just rereading her letters myself. Elizabeth's writings about her mother don't really track reality. Her mother was an alcoholic, in trouble with the law, and in fact used the alias "Jones" as EJ did in SA. I think her foster care placements in Boston were while her mother was still alive because she moved to AZ after her death. IMO, Elizabeth has tried to deal with her mother's alcohol issues by re-characterizing neglect as indulgent affection. I can imagine how confused and conflicted she was about her role as a mother when Gabriel was born.

    btw- EJ's mother drowned when Elizabeth was 12 and she used to lie about that. Instead of telling a true (and very sad) story, she told people her mother had been gunned down on the street in front of her and her twin.

    moo
    I see your point! But I think both could have occurred - indulgent affection (or spoiling the heck out of her) and precarious neglect. In fact, from experiences I have had with family law child custody evaluations, that is the type of thing that can make a kid go insane. Usually, though, the dichotomy occurs via two parents - one who treats the child like a superstar gem and the other who treats the child like a pariah who needs to be constantly punished.

    Let me re-word that - in the cases I have seen (which are all divorce or paternity cases), the dichotomy comes from two parents. But I can easily see how an alcoholic or a mentally ill parent can exhibit the same dichotomy within their own parenting.

    So, if EJ's mom alternately fawned over her kids and told them and everyone else how wonderful they were and that they could do no wrong and then neglected the heck out of them, or even abused them (kind of how I see cindy anthony's parenting techniques), it could have resulted in what we see today. A sociopathic nut.
    For Elizabeth, a minor child, a victim. Thank God she is home!

    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 03-31-2012, 11:24 PM
  2. Elizabeth Johnson's Attorney says "Gabriel is Alive"
    By iluvmua in forum Gabriel Johnson
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-24-2011, 02:25 PM
  3. Replies: 42
    Last Post: 04-07-2010, 12:21 PM
  4. Replies: 73
    Last Post: 02-06-2010, 09:06 PM
  5. Gabriel Johnson Forum
    By JBean in forum Missing Archives
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-26-2010, 10:11 PM

Tags for this Thread