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Thread: IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #25

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alliecog View Post
    I guess that could be a possibility, but I do not recall how all those guys knew each other... I honestly don't know what to think about JR. I just think that he has more to explain.
    And I'm just thinking more abstractly. For the record, I don't believe that any of the named POI's have a camp connection to each other. But, I am under the impression that it was a camp connection that brought JR together with his 4 roommates (yes, I realize none of them were there that night). It's my opinion that there were a lot more unnamed people present at one time or another that night, and for whatever reason, the details of the night are being kept guarded. Just trying to probe for another possible motivation for not being forthcoming.

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  3. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walker View Post
    Maybe BPD hangout there to prevent the type of problems that sometimes are associated with WH parking lots. For LS to be abducted as she walked from 11th to 10th on College Ave would then seem less likely.
    Waffle House provides a huge LE discount. It is definitely not work when they go there judging by the amount of 10-7's heard on the radio.

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  5. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
    Interesting and insightful.

    CS does a lot of thinking out loud. I am almost in overload mode with all the info of late. I don't know how she stays sane. At the concert the other night she asked the crowd their motivation for being there. Free food? Course assignment?, etc. It was taken out of context by some, and I don't know the context because I was gone by then, but she's definitely a Seeker.

    Yes, the WH has easy access to Old 37 North. However, if this is a WH perp and not a POI, all bets are off as to destination.
    That's the thing about a random abduction, no doubt.

    It seems like she thinks and processes on a spatial level, taking it all in. I can't imagine ... she must be beyond exhausted. Being a Seeker will help her through, though.

    She reminds me of a father in the other case I follow. He took the county I grew up in to court to get case files released. And he won. I can't see her backing down, either.

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  7. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alliecog View Post
    I'm sorry but I have to STRONGLY disagree with you about your summer camp claim. I have attended and worked at a summer camp (for 13 years, over half my life!) very similar to LS and know many people who have attended her camp. These camps provide kids with incredible role models, a support system and a lifelong family. Camps have a zero tolerance policy about drug use and drinking, I have seen friends and former counselors fired from my camp for such things. These camps can attract families with money since it is so expensive to send a child away to camp for a month or two, so it is possible that these kids when they grow up into young adults have the resources to drink and do expensive drugs (cocaine, etc). Summer camps, backpacking and such do not cause or contribute to drug and alcohol abuse.
    To get fired for substance-related offenses, we must assume that they were actually perpetrating such offenses (in most cases).
    If those rules exist, then they must exist for a reason.

    The camp I went to (@11 & 12 yo) did not have any drug problem but the counselors were a bit on the cool side. They were the types that just might pass around drugs if they had the opportunity. They were a bit hostile, too. One time my hiking group got lost in the woods, and we missed dinner. They gave us some cans of food, but no can opener. They didn't care that we just went hungry that night -- it was a joke to them. Lots of small similar incidents occurred. My sister fell and cut her head on a rock (but not a terribly serious injury). My parents found out from me! I wrote home that day that I had visited her in the infirmary. The counselors just weren't quite trustworthy. It is out-of-business now, probably sued out. But the camp had a wonderful rep and most people loved it and considered it "family." Go figure.

    Of course, today's camps are much more lawsuit conscious, but still, should parents trust anyone who wants to take charge of their children for a prolonged period of time without any compelling reason? After all, outdoor sports are available anywhere these days. JMO: Seems likely that the "partying" started at the camp.

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  9. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walker View Post
    To get fired for substance-related offenses, we must assume that they were actually perpetrating such offenses (in most cases).
    If those rules exist, then they must exist for a reason.

    The camp I went to (@11 & 12 yo) did not have any drug problem but the counselors were a bit on the cool side. They were the types that just might pass around drugs if they had the opportunity. They were a bit hostile, too. One time my hiking group got lost in the woods, and we missed dinner. They gave us some cans of food, but no can opener. They didn't care that we just went hungry that night -- it was a joke to them. Lots of small similar incidents occurred. My sister fell and cut her head on a rock (but not a terribly serious injury). My parents found out from me! I wrote home that day that I had visited her in the infirmary. The counselors just weren't quite trustworthy. It is out-of-business now, probably sued out. But the camp had a wonderful rep and most people loved it and considered it "family." Go figure.

    Of course, today's camps are much more lawsuit conscious, but still, should parents trust anyone who wants to take charge of their children for a prolonged period of time without any compelling reason? After all, outdoor sports are available anywhere these days. JMO: Seems likely that the "partying" started at the camp.

    I think the "compelling reason" is a very high price tag, these camps are not cheap, IMO.
    Just my opinion, of course.

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  11. #156
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    Walker, I'm sorry you had a negative experience at camp. Yes I know people who tried to get away with drinking and smoking pot on nights out, returning to camp and then getting fired. I just can't believe that the partying started AT camp. Parents send their kids to camp to socialize with other kids, gain independence, learn new skills, embrace the outdoors, disconnect from television, computers, video games etc. That is what compels them.

    Why should parents not trust organizations that provide their kids with life skills outside the classroom? I don't understand your skepticism about camps, aside from your own experience. Sounds to me like you had some counselors that most camps would NEVER hire.

    Edit: also, as far as the price tag goes many camps provide scholarships and grants for families who cannot afford to pay the price of overnight camp. I know my camp sends over 100 kids to camp every summer for free, and many more on scholarships. Camp is not only for the wealthy. I should also add that counselors do not make a lot of money, especially their first few years on staff. Not only that, but it is a 24 hour a day job with very few days off and little downtime. This is definitely a deterrent for those partying types.
    Last edited by Alliecog; 09-24-2011 at 11:54 PM. Reason: Clarification

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  13. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walker View Post
    Maybe BPD hangout there to prevent the type of problems that sometimes are associated with WH parking lots. For LS to be abducted as she walked from 11th to 10th on College Ave would then seem less likely.
    I seem to recall BPD used to hang out at the WH to grab a bite to eat or coffee on their break late at night/early morning.

    Also, unless something has changed, the Bloomington Waffle House is not like the Waffle House's you see along the Interstate. The ones with the yellow and black signs that are designed like little diners. Indiana used to have several Waffle Houses that were not at part of that 'yellow and black' chain. In fact in Indiana what most people outside of the state know as Waffle Houses were called Waffle-Steaks (probably due to a trademark issue but I'm just guessing). The Indiana Waffle Houses were usually more like a mom and pop Denny's.... for lack of a better description. And I remember them more as downtown restaurants, not located on Interstates. They were more of a relaxed setting than the hustle and bustle of the yellow and black Waffle-Steak/Waffle Houses... which is why it makes more sense that LE would take a break there late at night.

    Most of the truck traffic that is passing thru the Bloomington area would bypass downtown and stay on 'new' 37. And there's a Steak and Shake and White Castle that would likely get any trucking business.

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  15. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by akh View Post
    the Bloomington Waffle House is not like the Waffle House's you see along the Interstate.....

    Most of the truck traffic that is passing thru the Bloomington area would bypass downtown and stay on 'new' 37.
    This has been my impression all along. If the Waffle House were as speculated by Walker, including College Ave being an artery for lots of transient thru-traffic, I assume that we would be hearing a lot more about a possible crime of opportunity and a lot less about LS's "friends." The mere fact that SW (and the other College Ave apartments?) is full of rich East Coast kids who feel comfortable walking around in the wee hours of the morning suggests that it's not.

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  17. #159
    Let me add that while I don't wish to impugn the sort of camps that are being celebrated here, and did not attend one myself, I went to school with many people who did (20 years ago), and heard about a good deal of bad behavior in them.

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  19. #160
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    the article in the herald times re Bo Dietle's involvement includes some pretty good response from the chief of BPD... but I'm concerned about the comments section - especially those from people saying that they've lost respect for CS/RS with their choice of PI...

    I would hate to see the community turn their backs on the family...

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  21. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by bx2 View Post
    And I'm just thinking more abstractly. For the record, I don't believe that any of the named POI's have a camp connection to each other. But, I am under the impression that it was a camp connection that brought JR together with his 4 roommates (yes, I realize none of them were there that night).
    I am of the same belief, and add that I believe that those (absent) roommates may be high school (or earlier) friends with MB.

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  23. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloom54 View Post
    the article in the herald times re Bo Dietle's involvement includes some pretty good response from the chief of BPD... but I'm concerned about the comments section - especially those from people saying that they've lost respect for CS/RS with their choice of PI...

    I would hate to see the community turn their backs on the family...
    I hope CS/RS' communications consultant is developing a damage control message because this has the potential to become ugly--a "lose-lose" situation.

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  25. #163
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    I was thinking the same thing, Jupiter!

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  27. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnalyticalExaminer View Post
    This has been my impression all along. If the Waffle House were as speculated by Walker, including College Ave being an artery for lots of transient thru-traffic, I assume that we would be hearing a lot more about a possible crime of opportunity and a lot less about LS's "friends." The mere fact that SW (and the other College Ave apartments?) is full of rich East Coast kids who feel comfortable walking around in the wee hours of the morning suggests that it's not.
    About the only reason I see thru traffic coming off 'new' highway 37 would be to take 46 into Columbus, IN and hit I65 there. But that assumes the traffic heading south wouldn't have went thru Indy first where they could've picked picked up I65 there much more quickly and bypassed a lot of hilly, curvy, 2 lane terrain on 46 between Bloomington and Columbus. And I can't imagine too much traffic heading north on 37 would go as far as Bloomington to take 46 over to 65. There are better routes.

    Also, if you were taking 46 from 37 to I65 there's a Denny's at the college/walnut intersection (I assume it's still there anyway) so that would attract any out of towners looking for a quick bite on their way thru and negate them wandering up College off their path.

    IOW, as AE said, College isn't likely to have much thru traffic. It's going to be more locals or trucks making deliveries (which would be regular deliveries). ...Which is not to rule out a crime of opportunity with someone from that group.

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  29. #165
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    Here's another scenario along the "crime of opportunity" lines, in which all of the POI that we've heard from in the media are actually telling the truth. When I visited B-town and drove around the Smallwood/5 North block for the first time since Lauren's disappearance, like many others have said, the thing that jumped out at me immediately was all the construction. Thinking about this, here are some of my questions ...

    - Who is in charge of this construction, specifically the project directly across the street from 5 North, but other areas as well?
    - How does the construction company staff their jobs? Do they use company employees? Sub-contractors? Temporary workers? What kind of info would be kept on said workers?
    - Could some of the people working across from 5 North have been from out of town? Other parts of the country? Illegal immigrants?
    - Would any of the workers there have "rolled off" the job immediately or shortly following LS's disappearance? Did anyone suddenly quit, or get sick, or not show up on June 3? Did someone have a few days off?

    What if an out-of-towner working the construction site had noticed all the cute co-eds hanging around the area and decided he wanted to "have some fun"? He could have scoped out the area, places he could lurk, planned out how he could grab someone (say, someone small and alone) and get them out of the area fast. If he's not local, someone with few connections to the area, and especially if he was done at the construction site or just had a few days off, he could have taken her anywhere and then either skipped town or returned to work on Monday.

    Plausible? Thoughts?

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  31. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloom54 View Post
    the article in the herald times re Bo Dietle's involvement includes some pretty good response from the chief of BPD... but I'm concerned about the comments section - especially those from people saying that they've lost respect for CS/RS with their choice of PI...

    I would hate to see the community turn their backs on the family...
    I have to say I was very disappointed that the family would hire this guy.He is nothing more than a publicity hound that will say anything provocative to sell his next book or get his next talking head gig.I think his Gomer Pyle comment is a perfect example of this.
    Everybody cooperates,but nobody talks.

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  33. #167
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    As far as construction workers, while anything is possible, I just don't see someone actually expecting to find a girl by herself at 4:30AM.

    As far as this PI goes...this guy used to be on Don Imus' radio show in NYC all the time, and is very full of himself. I don't know of any missing people he has located, other than perhaps wayward husbands. And generally it is a good idea for a PI to ingratiate themselves with local LE, not "diss" them publicly. What's worse, is this shows that the Spierers are not feeling in synch with LE as it had appeared all these months.

    JMO
    Just my opinion, of course.

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  35. #168
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    Bo Dietle's denigrating of local LE could be a ploy to get some of them to actually share info. He paints them as rubes, out of their league... whatever... in the media. Then, assuming there's any differences of opinion about certain POI's, evidence, or other handling of the case among those in local LE and the official party line, some might talk to Bo behind the scenes to share case info and their alternate theories in an attempt to show him they aren't all rubes.

    IOW- He could be taking advantage of media and human nature trying to gain an advantage.... or he could just be a blowhard.

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  37. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by akh View Post
    Bo Dietle's denigrating of local LE could be a ploy to get some of them to actually share info. He paints them as rubes, out of their league... whatever... in the media. Then, assuming there's any differences of opinion about certain POI's, evidence, or other handling of the case among those in local LE and the official party line, some might talk to Bo behind the scenes to share case info and their alternate theories in an attempt to show him they aren't all rubes.

    IOW- He could be taking advantage of media and human nature trying to gain an advantage.... or he could just be a blowhard.
    IMO, it is the last part.
    Just my opinion, of course.

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  39. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by WhitneyLea View Post
    Here's another scenario along the "crime of opportunity" lines

    ...

    Plausible? Thoughts?
    My thoughts: that's a very vague theory that has little to do with anything the family or LE has said about the case. Assuming the POI have told the truth does not assume that they don't know what happened, because it does not mean they have told the whole truth.

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  41. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnalyticalExaminer View Post
    My thoughts: that's a very vague theory that has little to do with anything the family or LE has said about the case. Assuming the POI have told the truth does not assume that they don't know what happened, because it does not mean they have told the whole truth.
    True. I'm just grasping at straws I guess. Wondering if there is any plausible scenario in which they are all truly "innocent."

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  43. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnalyticalExaminer View Post
    If the Waffle House were as speculated ... I assume that we would be hearing a lot more about a possible crime of opportunity and a lot less about LS's "friends."
    Similarly, if the Waffle House were as speculated, then it'd have to be open at the approximate time on the morning in question.

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  45. #173
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    I believe WaffleHouse is a 24/7 operation...

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  47. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
    As far as construction workers, while anything is possible, I just don't see someone actually expecting to find a girl by herself at 4:30AM.

    As far as this PI goes...this guy used to be on Don Imus' radio show in NYC all the time, and is very full of himself. I don't know of any missing people he has located, other than perhaps wayward husbands. And generally it is a good idea for a PI to ingratiate themselves with local LE, not "diss" them publicly. What's worse, is this shows that the Spierers are not feeling in synch with LE as it had appeared all these months.

    JMO
    Many construction company's in their quest to save money will hire out of state/illegal workers.Then allow them to sleep on the site at night.Also with the problem of vandalism most sites in populated area's have some one watching the site at night.So while I agree that someone would not be sitting their waiting for some girl to walk by I do think it is possible someone was on the site at night and saw her walking by.Also I would agree once again with your thoughts on this PI.I have lived in NY for my whole life and listened to this guys lies about his police record and cases he supposedly solved and besides bringing publicity to himself he is going to do nothing positive for this family.Very sad
    Everybody cooperates,but nobody talks.

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  49. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloom54 View Post
    the article in the herald times re Bo Dietle's involvement includes some pretty good response from the chief of BPD... but I'm concerned about the comments section - especially those from people saying that they've lost respect for CS/RS with their choice of PI...

    I would hate to see the community turn their backs on the family...
    I couldn't access the article, but read the comments and am shocked by the hostility toward the Spierers. As if any of those people wouldn't do whatever it took if someone they loved was missing. If the BPD are doing their job, they should be able to withstand criticism, and the Spierers' use of another investigative tool (pun intended?) shouldn't be interpreted as their lack of support of Bloomington or LE. They have clearly and repeatedly expressed their support and gratitude for both, after all. Sheesh.
    Last edited by AbbeyR; 09-25-2011 at 02:39 PM. Reason: clarity

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