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Thread: Max's Search Warrants Released!!!! Discuss Max's Death here #2

  1. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrell skye View Post
    Please explain, then, how he could have received the fatal contusion to his spinal cord, if not from falling from a 2nd story landing onto a carpeted, cement floor.
    Well that is the question, because that is what happened, so I still can't follow the logic that it didn't happen.

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  3. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by JBean View Post
    I think for those of you that are having trouble with the conclusions of the sutopsy and the LE report, just imagine a fall from a horse, which is not nearly as high as the second floor of this house and it might make it easier to imagine how an injury of this magnitude could happen from a second story fall. Many,many spinal cord injuries are a result of a fall from the height of a horse and the damage can be catastrophic.
    Do you mean a horse standing still? Respectfully

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  5. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by thinkingstraight View Post
    Do you mean a horse standing still? Respectfully
    Regardless of whether the horse is standing, running, or even jumping, it's not going to be higher than a distance Max fell from.
    Just my opinion

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  7. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBean View Post
    I think for those of you that are having trouble with the conclusions of the sutopsy and the LE report, just imagine a fall from a horse, which is not nearly as high as the second floor of this house and it might make it easier to imagine how an injury of this magnitude could happen from a second story fall. Many,many spinal cord injuries are a result of a fall from the height of a horse and the damage can be catastrophic.
    That's because of the speed of a horse rather than its height.

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  9. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBean View Post
    Well that is the question, because that is what happened, so I still can't follow the logic that it didn't happen.
    That is what we're TOLD happened, by someone who claims to not even have witnessed it.

  10. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBean View Post
    I think for those of you that are having trouble with the conclusions of the sutopsy and the LE report, just imagine a fall from a horse, which is not nearly as high as the second floor of this house and it might make it easier to imagine how an injury of this magnitude could happen from a second story fall. Many,many spinal cord injuries are a result of a fall from the height of a horse and the damage can be catastrophic.
    Yes - if a person falls (from a horse or from a 2nd story landing) if they land on their head just right, causing their neck to hyper-extend, then a fatal or paralyzing injury can occur, depending on where the spinal cord is injured & the extent of the damage.
    To understand the soul of a horse is the closest we humans can come to knowing perfection.

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  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDS22 View Post
    I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is that a household injury (a fall over a stair railing onto a carpeted surface) couldn't produce the velocity needed to cause a fatal spinal cord contusion. An epidural hematoma would be the more likely result of a household injury, but that's not what happened.
    CDS It's not a matter of velocity, it's how the person lands.

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  14. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrell skye View Post
    Please explain, then, how he could have received the fatal contusion to his spinal cord, if not from falling from a 2nd story landing, possibly striking his head against the opposite railing, and then onto a carpeted, cement floor.
    By being thrown, unconscious, over the railing, by someone twice his size.

  15. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyme & Reason View Post
    CDS It's not a matter of velocity, it's how the person lands.
    Not for a fatal spinal cord contusion. A fatal spinal cord contusion is fatal whiplash. Fatal whiplash rarely occurs.

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  17. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDS22 View Post
    Not for a fatal spinal cord contusion. A fatal spinal cord contusion is fatal whiplash. Fatal whiplash rarely occurs.
    But the fall was from a height, so I don't agree that you would need any velocity at all. It's the landing that matters.

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  19. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBean View Post
    That is an interesting take on it, but I can see fault with many of his variables right off the bat. I can't even take a race car scenario into account because it is irrelevant hre.
    Racing cars are used only as an example of the kind of velocity needed to cause a fatal spinal cord contusion.

  20. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyme & Reason View Post
    But the fall was from a height, so I don't agree that you would need any velocity at all. It's the landing that matters.
    Not for whiplash.

  21. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDS22 View Post
    That's because of the speed of a horse rather than its height.
    Speed can certainly be a part of it no doubt. But the other major part is how the person lands and what body part absorbs the impact of the fall.
    If a kid falls from the 2nd floor and the impact is absorbed by his head and neck how can he not sustain a catastrophic injury? Perfect storm,imo.

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  23. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDS22 View Post
    That's because of the speed of a horse rather than its height.
    Actually, it's because Reeve's mount shied @ the jump & came to a sudden halt.

    Reeve had been approaching the third of 18 jumps -- a triple-bar about 3 1/2 feet high -- on the course when his horse, Eastern Express, apparently could not find the right spot to make the jump. The horse abruptly stopped, causing Reeve to "roll up the horse's neck and fall on his head on the other side of the jump," according to Monk Reynolds, the equestrian center's owner.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-1995Jun1.html
    To understand the soul of a horse is the closest we humans can come to knowing perfection.

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  25. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrell skye View Post
    Actually, it's because Reeve's mount shied @ the jump & came to a sudden halt.

    Reeve had been approaching the third of 18 jumps -- a triple-bar about 3 1/2 feet high -- on the course when his horse, Eastern Express, apparently could not find the right spot to make the jump. The horse abruptly stopped, causing Reeve to "roll up the horse's neck and fall on his head on the other side of the jump," according to Monk Reynolds, the equestrian center's owner.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-1995Jun1.html
    So, despite the fact that horse was at zero speed it was enough force to break his neck. Clearly if one falls on ones head, it doesn't have at to be at super high speed or super high heights to cause damage.
    Just my opinion

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  27. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    Kristopher Reeves is one example of how catastrophic a fall from a horse can be.
    Christopher Reeve had a broken neck, not a fatal spinal cord contusion.

  28. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    So, despite the fact that horse was at zero speed it was enough force to break his neck. Clearly if one falls on ones head, it doesn't have at to be at super high speed or super high heights to cause damage.
    Max did not suffer a broken neck, nor was he riding a horse.

  29. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrell skye View Post
    Actually, it's because Reeve's mount shied @ the jump & came to a sudden halt.

    Reeve had been approaching the third of 18 jumps -- a triple-bar about 3 1/2 feet high -- on the course when his horse, Eastern Express, apparently could not find the right spot to make the jump. The horse abruptly stopped, causing Reeve to "roll up the horse's neck and fall on his head on the other side of the jump," according to Monk Reynolds, the equestrian center's owner.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-1995Jun1.html
    Christopher Reeve had a broken neck. Max did not have a broken neck, nor was he horseback riding.

  30. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBean View Post
    Speed can certainly be a part of it no doubt. But the other major part is how the person lands and what body part absorbs the impact of the fall.
    If a kid falls from the 2nd floor and the impact is absorbed by his head and neck how can he not sustain a catastrophic injury? Perfect storm,imo.
    Not for a fatal spinal cord contusion. A fatal spinal cord contusion is whiplash in the most extreme form. That means that speed and force must be combined just so in order to unplug the spinal cord. A fall from a stair railing (with nine steps between the landings) cannot present enough speed and a carpeted floor cannot provide enough force for a conscious childs head to snap back far enough to unplug the spinal cord.

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  32. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDS22 View Post
    By being thrown, unconscious, over the railing, by someone twice his size.
    Seriously? How could 100lb RZ throw the dead weight (sorry) of an unconscious person over a balcony? I just don't see that happening.

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  34. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDS22 View Post
    I posted a link in the first Max thread about childhood falls and the most likely cause and effect of fatal head injury. It wasn't fatal spinal cord contusion. It was epidural hematoma.

    Now you can argue that Max hit his head just the "wrong" way to get a fatal spinal cord contusion, but there wasn't enough height to get the velocity needed to hit the floor with force needed to unplug his spinal cord, nor was the carpeted floor a hard enough surface to give him the impact needed to fatally damage his spinal cord.
    Quote Originally Posted by sorrell skye View Post
    Please explain, then, how he could have received the fatal contusion to his spinal cord, if not from falling from a 2nd story landing, possibly striking his head against the opposite railing, and then onto a carpeted, cement floor.
    Quote Originally Posted by CDS22 View Post
    By being thrown, unconscious, over the railing, by someone twice his size.
    So what I think you're saying is that you don't believe a fall from a 2nd story landing could cause a fatal spinal cord contusion - that only being thrown from a 2nd story landing could produce the fatal injury.

    Who threw him, then? And why was he unconscious prior to being thrown?
    To understand the soul of a horse is the closest we humans can come to knowing perfection.

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  36. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by sorrell skye View Post
    Actually, it's because Reeve's mount shied @ the jump & came to a sudden halt.

    Reeve had been approaching the third of 18 jumps -- a triple-bar about 3 1/2 feet high -- on the course when his horse, Eastern Express, apparently could not find the right spot to make the jump. The horse abruptly stopped, causing Reeve to "roll up the horse's neck and fall on his head on the other side of the jump," according to Monk Reynolds, the equestrian center's owner.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-1995Jun1.html
    The force of an abruption of high speed is fatal whiplash and that applies to max accident IMO.

  37. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDS22 View Post
    Not for a fatal spinal cord contusion. A fatal spinal cord contusion is fatal whiplash. Fatal whiplash rarely occurs.
    I know what this is, thank you. It doesn't matter that it rarely occurs, because it did occur in this case. It was one of those RARE accidents.

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  39. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDS22 View Post
    Racing cars are used only as an example of the kind of velocity needed to cause a fatal spinal cord contusion.
    Quote Originally Posted by CDS22 View Post
    By being thrown, unconscious, over the railing, by someone twice his size.
    So this person can create the velocity of a race car?
    This was an interesting discussion-thanks.

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  41. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyme & Reason View Post
    Seriously? How could 100lb RZ throw the dead weight (sorry) of an unconscious person over a balcony? I just don't see that happening.
    First of all, she was twice his size and more than twice his weight. Second of all, XZ was with her at the time, too, so that's 2 people larger than MS.

    Thirdly, I've seen small children throw children their own size or larger, when they get in a rage. Rage can make someone super-strong.

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