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  1. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenpalm View Post
    Okay. So. What gave him that kind of velocity?

    You've now got our suspect dragging him (thus producing carpet burn (with a shirt on?) and pulling down the chandelier, plus whatever the killer did first to cause loss of consciousness so that the impact from the fall without defensive-protective type hand wounds. What do you think the murderer did, exactly? here's my guess as to your hypothetical situation:

    1. Semi-smother - to point of consciousness lost
    2. Throw Max over the stairwell for face down landing (any blood at point of impact?)
    3. Drag shirtless max across carpet to new location (Why not just pick him up to move him - I can easily carry my 50lb boys in a dead sleep.)
    4. Put scooter on top of Max's leg
    5. Pull down the chandelier (as per the chandelier thread)

    Do I have all the pieces of your scenario? What's the motive? Cold blooded murder or to cover an accident?
    Carpet burns can occur through a T-shirt or when a T-shirt rides up. Remember, the SW says they seized a black T-shirt (cut) that was found near the scene of the accident.

    I believe it is against the current guidelines for me to post what I believe happened and why it happened, but I do have a theory.


  2. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by thinkingstraight View Post
    this is what I meant to say but you articulated it much better. I don't know why the theory is literally being laughed at on this forum of all places.
    Dr. Peterson is being laughed at, too, so we're in esteemed company.


  3. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDS22 View Post
    My opinion has definitely changed. I always believed MS didn't fall the way RZ said he did, but I firmly believed it was an accident. I now believe that he didn't fall the way he did and that he was unconscious prior to falling. I believed this prior to reading Dr. Peterson's quotes in the SW (linked in this thread), but I believe it even moreso than I did the prior week, and I have a different take on how it happened, but I can't post it here.
    Yes but now you are accusing a 13 year old of taking part in a murder!!


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  5. #319
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    What IF MS was crouching/squatting on the newel post at the top of the stairs with his back to the chandelier?

    Then, something/someone/nothing caused him to lose his balance with his body heading toward the chandelier?

    With his tennis-shod or bare feet still on the newel post, his legs then uncoiled/unsprung sending him backwards toward the chandelier.

    Collision with the chandelier with his back [possibly causing the “patterned abrasions or scrapes on back” per AR] and without hand damage to prevent the fall, then landing on the carpet below in the devastating, neck hyper-extended position resulting in the spinal cord “unplugging” damage as stated in the AR. ???

    Horrible, nightmare of a freak accident.

    IMO, MOO, TIA, etc.


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  7. #320
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    I need to go color my roots and catch my breath LOL. I'm a little taken aback here.


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  9. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyme & Reason View Post
    Yes but now you are accusing a 13 year old of taking part in a murder!!
    No, I'm not. I've not mentioned XZ murdering anyone.


  10. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quester View Post
    What IF MS was crouching/squatting on the newel post at the top of the stairs with his back to the chandelier?

    Then, something/someone/nothing caused him to lose his balance with his body heading toward the chandelier?

    With his tennis-shod or bare feet still on the newel post, his legs then uncoiled/unsprung sending him backwards toward the chandelier.

    Collision with the chandelier with his back [possibly causing the “patterned abrasions or scrapes on back” per AR] and without hand damage to prevent the fall, then landing on the carpet below in the devastating, neck hyper-extended position resulting in the spinal cord “unplugging” damage as stated in the AR. ???

    Horrible, nightmare of a freak accident.

    IMO, MOO, TIA, etc.
    That would have caused him to fall backwards, and in order for him to have a fatal spinal cord contusion, he had to fall forwards and then have his head snap back so forcefully that it unplugged his spinal cord.


  11. #323
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    He was an active little boy, anyone of those scabs could have occurred prior to his accident imo


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  13. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by defense101 View Post
    He was an active little boy, anyone of those scabs could have occurred prior to his accident imo
    <modsnip> Then why was it depicted in the AR diagram as coming from the accident?

    http://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/...max_report.pdf
    Last edited by Salem; 09-25-2011 at 01:38 AM. Reason: Don't be snarky - it's not necessary.


  14. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDS22 View Post
    <modsnip> Then why was it depicted in the AR diagram as coming from the accident?

    http://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/...max_report.pdf
    The LE illustration of how the accident happened depicts Max at one point hitting his back on the railing. Which is what presumably caused the scratches on his back.
    Last edited by Salem; 09-25-2011 at 01:38 AM.
    Just my opinion


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  16. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    The LE illustration of how the accident happened depicts Max at one point hitting his back on the railing. Which is what presumably caused the scratches on his back.
    Yes, it does, and that is the part that I disagree with. Hitting a railing wouldn't cause abrasions (IMO) but rather a contusion. He had abrasions on his back.


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  18. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDS22 View Post
    Really? Then why was it depicted in the AR diagram as coming from the accident?

    http://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/...max_report.pdf
    From reading the autopsy report I don't believe they were assigned to the fall, they were just noted as being on his body.


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  20. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDS22 View Post
    Dr. Peterson is being laughed at, too, so we're in esteemed company.
    Link please to the laughing at Dr. Peterson. It sure wasn't me as I don't think this situation is in the least bit funny.


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  22. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by defense101 View Post
    From reading the autopsy report I don't believe they were assigned to the fall, they were just noted as being on his body.
    They were depcited in the AR diagram I linked you to and presented in the presentation LE gave about the boy's death. They were specifically cited as coming from the accident.


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  24. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    So, despite the fact that horse was at zero speed it was enough force to break his neck. Clearly if one falls on ones head, it doesn't have at to be at super high speed or super high heights to cause damage.
    I will say this: although Reeve's horse came to an abrupt halt, Reeve's body (when he was thrown) would have been traveling @ the speed of his horse prior to his horse refusing the jump. The event in which Reeve was competing was cross-country equestrian jumping. Average speed of mounts in this competition is 546 meters per minute (depending upon whether or not the event is preliminary, intermediate, or advanced).

    546 meters per minute = about 20.36 mph. The speed @ which Reeve's body could have been traveling when he was thrown from his horse may have been about 20.36 mph.

    http://convert-to.com/202/speed-units.html

    Reeve wasn't dismounted @ a necessarily high rate of speed.

    IMO, it was the angle @ which Reeve's head impacted the ground, and the angle @ which his neck hyper-extended when his head impacted the ground, that led to his spinal cord injuries.

    How is this applicable to this case? IMO, the angle @ which MS's head & neck possibly impacted the opposite stair railing and/or the carpeted cement floor below after falling from a 2nd story landing is what caused the hyper-extension of his neck, and is what led to his fatal spinal cord injuries.
    To understand the soul of a horse is the closest we humans can come to knowing perfection.


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