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Thread: TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #12

  1. #1101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedog View Post
    First time posting ...have read everything on this site about Gail and followed the case for the last seven months.

    F. Lee you could have taken the words right out of my mouth...I so agree with you and know the area. It has been several months since I have been on that area of the mountain but know it well. My thoughts after the jeep being found last week was why no homeowner reported the boulder or large rock missing. The neighborhoods on Signal Mountain are known for calling the police dept if anything goes on in the area. My husband use to work EMS on the mountain and he would say that calls to the police would come in for any reason whether small or large ...probably things we would overlook. The residents would call about a dog going to the bathroom in their yard....they are very particular about their property. How a missing boulder, tire marks, and damage to a hedge was not reported amazes me. I know this is on the edge side of the mountain across the road but the homeowners own that part. This information of owner is located on Hamilton County government website and property located across the street if any is listed.

    So strange that a time was released by the lawyer so quickly after the discovery of the jeep.
    BBM

    Hi Whitedog. Welcome to WS.

    The Hamilton County Sheriff’s Department serves the Township of Walden where the incident took place.

    Walden folks are more independent than the Town of SM people with their hyper vigilant LE, IMO.

    I just can’t believe that MP’s PI didn’t go, gee, maybe she took the scenic route to the W Road, a route known to be taken as it conveniently hits Mountain Creek Road right close to MP’s mothers apartment.

    The cell phone pinged in that area… and hey there is a rock out of place and tire marks off the side.


    all imo

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  3. #1102
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    There are hills and curves coming from her home that would alert her to car troubles before she got to E. Brow.

    GP was close, very close to help of all kind if she had indication of brake problems.

    SM has a decent sized commercial district [with at least one full service gas station] that she passed right through/by.

    How would someone who tampered with the jeep know that the children wouldn’t be in the car when the brakes went out?

    Also, In order for her to get pushed over the side the other vehicle would have to not only bump her but somehow get GP to turn the wheel towards the bluff and propel the jeep for the distance with force.

    Anyone under attack would fight instinctively away from the bluff, imo.

    The tire marks in the video are not churned up or ragged and deep like the brakes were being held down or the gear shift in Park and there is only one set.

    The attacking car would have to keep propelling to get her to go in the direction of the bluff across the grass pushing the heavy rock thus making another set of tracks.

    IMO, unless GP was going at a very high rate of speed a bump from behind would not have sent her that far out of control.

    GP’s gentle nature doesn’t led one to think she would speeding through a quiet residential area known for walkers of all ages being present.

    I think the HCSD is being delicate by calling it an accident.



    All IMO

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  5. #1103
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    IMHO.. Gail did not go sailing off that mountain between 12:25 pm and 12:35 pm on Saturday April 30th as some would like for us to believe she did..And I do not believe for a second Gail made a decision while driving on East Brow to just end it all by driving herself and her jeep off a mountain...I do believe Gail's death was/is an intentional act on the part of someone who would benefit greatly from her death IF it looked like she lost control of her jeep an had a fatal accident or either made a decision to end her own life...

    Looking back we have been prepped for these type scenarios since the beginning...


    I'll say it again.. Alot of planning as well as a substanital amount of cash is involved with WHY Gail Marie Palmgren is dead... JMHO
    "It's been clear from day one that the contradicting statements from the family members are not the truth," said Capt. Johnny Greenwood, spokesman for the Putnam County Sheriff's Office.

    JUSTICE HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED AND HIDDEN IN THE LAW

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  7. #1104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jade View Post
    There are hills and curves coming from her home that would alert her to car troubles before she got to E. Brow.

    GP was close, very close to help of all kind if she had indication of brake problems.

    SM has a decent sized commercial district [with at least one full service gas station] that she passed right through/by.

    How would someone who tampered with the jeep know that the children wouldn’t be in the car when the brakes went out?

    Also, In order for her to get pushed over the side the other vehicle would have to not only bump her but somehow get GP to turn the wheel towards the bluff and propel the jeep for the distance with force.

    Anyone under attack would fight instinctively away from the bluff, imo.

    The tire marks in the video are not churned up or ragged and deep like the brakes were being held down or the gear shift in Park and there is only one set.

    The attacking car would have to keep propelling to get her to go in the direction of the bluff across the grass pushing the heavy rock thus making another set of tracks.

    IMO, unless GP was going at a very high rate of speed a bump from behind would not have sent her that far out of control.

    GP’s gentle nature doesn’t led one to think she would speeding through a quiet residential area known for walkers of all ages being present.

    I think the HCSD is being delicate by calling it an accident.
    All IMO
    BBM..I pray you are right..
    Am also wondering IF anyone has any knowledge as to when a memorial for Gail will be held...
    "It's been clear from day one that the contradicting statements from the family members are not the truth," said Capt. Johnny Greenwood, spokesman for the Putnam County Sheriff's Office.

    JUSTICE HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED AND HIDDEN IN THE LAW

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  9. #1105
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    Does anyone know which computer accident simulation software is being used to recreate this crash?
    TIA.

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  11. #1106
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    Thank you for a gentle and delicate post, Jade.
    email me


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  13. #1107
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    Quote Originally Posted by F. Lee View Post
    "Highly unlikely" struck me in your quote. I agree.

    I'm a local who has followed this case from the time it (finally) was mentioned in the media. I never met Gail and don't know anyone who knew her, but her case has touched me and so many people who live in this community. I feel more should have been done to help find Gail from day one. Many people are so sad for her and for her children. I'm grateful for the people who worked so hard to keep her story in the media. Without their help I don't know if Gail and the Jeep would have ever been found.

    My house is about a mile from the site where her Jeep went over the bluff... the entire mountain now knows the exact spot. I know six people who this week decided to drive the East Brow Road site where the Jeep went over...including the man who lives across the road from it. None, except for me, had preconceived opinions. Each person, and that includes me, said the same thing: this had to be intentional.

    Either Gail had an incredible plan devised, where circumstances aligned and she returned her children to her home even as she thought someone was following and threatening her. She told her sister as she drove that she was afraid and asked the police to meet her. Yet amidst all the drama of the past days and months she was then able to drive to the Brow Road site and execute a seemingly impossible 90' right angle turn at exactly the spot where the stone wall was just barely wide enough to drive a Jeep through, and continue on through grass and a hedge to fall to her death. Or something else happened.

    I've driven East Brow Road hundreds of times. It's at such a high elevation and has such a sheer drop to the valley that it seems you're looking out an airplane window. It is, however, a perfectly straight road -- no curves or dips or undulations. When driving from the Hampton Road side and driving up toward the site the Jeep went over, I found it impossible to see how anyone could thread the needle to drive through that small opening without doing damage to something other than a rock -- and they are rocks, not huge boulders. The area there is a lot more narrow than the elongated view that Google shows. Coming from the other direction (from the W Road side) is just as bad -- the driver is on the "house" side of the road and has the smallest bit more of a view when driving. Still not enough that any of the six people I know said they would be able to maneuver.

    As I said before, six people have this week driven the route and each one said there was no way this was anything except intentional. Their ages range from a 28 year-old man who drives a truck for a living and drives the road regularly, to the 70-something person who lives on the Brow Road and drives it daily.

    If any other locals are reading this, it would be very insightful to hear from you with your thoughts about the accident site. Looking at it on the map and actually driving it makes a huge difference. Please take the time to drive it and see what you think. I hope this is thoroughly investigated and not pronounced a tragic accident. Many things that happen in our county result in being called a tragic accident -- we already know that much, but has every possible scenario been investigated as to what caused it?

    It's sad to miss someone you never met. Many on this mountain feel that way.
    Thank you for this great post!

    Interesting that you all came to the conclusion that she didn't go off on her own....

    I can't wait to hear more from LE.

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  15. #1108
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    My thoughts as to what happened is that whomever was following Gail sped up, getting closer to her, either as if they were going to rear end her or pull up beside her to force her off the road. Gail was speeding up to get away from her tail, which was the exact plan "the perpetrator" had in mind!

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  17. #1109
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1&2&3 View Post
    My thoughts as to what happened is that whomever was following Gail sped up, getting closer to her, either as if they were going to rear end her or pull up beside her to force her off the road. Gail was speeding up to get away from her tail, which was the exact plan "the perpetrator" had in mind!
    Do we know for certain which way she was headed, was she headed toward the W Road or was she headed away from the W?
    "It's been clear from day one that the contradicting statements from the family members are not the truth," said Capt. Johnny Greenwood, spokesman for the Putnam County Sheriff's Office.

    JUSTICE HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED AND HIDDEN IN THE LAW

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  19. #1110
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    Gail is found, and that was one of the things I wanted most. Now I just want to know what happened to cause her death. Whether or not the investigators have an obligation to share that information with the public, I hope they do.

    Did we ever figure out which convenience store Gail stopped at?

    Remember MP said he got a change of address form on 5/4, and I think it was dated 4/30? So, did Gail do that online very early in the morning, or did she stop while they were driving back from AL and do that or what? That doesn't sound like something a suicidal person would do, IMO.

    Some other things:

    With the recent storms, maybe the ground was muddier than usual and that made it easier for the boulder to go over? Just trying to figure out how that plays in.

    Also wondering if Gail dropped something, maybe her cell phone, and was reaching for it and lost control? Unlikely maybe, but not impossible.

    I was one of those who suspected MP strongly in the beginning. I wanted him investigated and either exonerated or charged, as the case may be, in the interest of finding Gail. The circumstances as reported by Gail's family, LE, and even MP himself, were compelling. If I ever went missing under those circumstances, I would want someone questioning it too.

    I've heard it said that AD is to blame for getting people all stirred up and thinking the worst about MP. Yet AD WAS NOT the source (or in the case of being afraid, not the sole source), of ANY of what made me the most suspicious.

    Now, however, we have more information than we had before. We know where Gail was all this time. The new information makes me suspect him less. If the investigation reveals this was just a tragic accident, then so be it. If those who thought MP was involved were wrong, and those who thought Gail abandoned her kids were wrong, so be it.

    I just hope that 1) we get some definitive answers, 2) Gail is memorialized in a way deserving of her memory, and 3) Gail's family can continue to play a part in the lives of her children.

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    If Gail's brake lines were cut then my question would be when were they cut? As far as we know she was only home long enough to drop the kids off and then took off again. Surely someone wouldn't cut those brake lines knowing the possiblity existed that the kids might still be in the vehicle. After all Gail had just driven her vehicle at least 4 hours home from AL with those kids in that vehicle. I don't think her brake lines were cut, but I could see someone chasing after her vehicle and her picking up speed to get away and if that person got their vehicle got beside her vehicle and swerved their vehicle to hit her I could see her turning her stirring wheel to avoid them hitting her and not paying attention to where she was at but rather her paying attention to the sitituation at hand and by the time she turned her stirring wheel to avoid the collision it was too late. IMO there was definitely foul play involved here. As I've share with you all from the very beginning of this case when I was going through my divorce down in TN there were several times that someone tried to run me off the road. For 3 years I went through pure hell and had to be on my guard 24/7. Several times I was chased on the mountain roads. They would pull their vehicle right up next to my vehicle and start to nudge my vehicle towards the cliff to push me over and when you're in the situation your mind is racing a 100 mph and you're scared to death. They came close a couple of times in succeeding to push me over the edge but one time I hit my brakes so hard and they were still moving at a fast speed that they were the ones who hit the tree and I turned around in the middle of the road and went in the opposite direction to get the heck out of Dodge. Back then we didn't have cell phones but by the time I got a hold of LE and showed them where the incident took place that vehicle was gone, but there was substantial damage to the tree that was hit and lucky for them that tree stopped them from going over the edge themselves. I couldn't begin to tell you how shook up I was over the whole ordeal. Terrified is all I can say.
    Last edited by Snowbunny; 12-09-2011 at 07:16 PM.

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  23. #1112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish_Eyes View Post
    Gail is found, and that was one of the things I wanted most. Now I just want to know what happened to cause her death. Whether or not the investigators have an obligation to share that information with the public, I hope they do.

    Did we ever figure out which convenience store Gail stopped at?

    Remember MP said he got a change of address form on 5/4, and I think it was dated 4/30? So, did Gail do that online very early in the morning, or did she stop while they were driving back from AL and do that or what? That doesn't sound like something a suicidal person would do, IMO.

    Some other things:

    With the recent storms, maybe the ground was muddier than usual and that made it easier for the boulder to go over? Just trying to figure out how that plays in.

    Also wondering if Gail dropped something, maybe her cell phone, and was reaching for it and lost control? Unlikely maybe, but not impossible.

    I was one of those who suspected MP strongly in the beginning. I wanted him investigated and either exonerated or charged, as the case may be, in the interest of finding Gail. The circumstances as reported by Gail's family, LE, and even MP himself, were compelling. If I ever went missing under those circumstances, I would want someone questioning it too.

    I've heard it said that AD is to blame for getting people all stirred up and thinking the worst about MP. Yet AD WAS NOT the source (or in the case of being afraid, not the sole source), of ANY of what made me the most suspicious.

    Now, however, we have more information than we had before. We know where Gail was all this time. The new information makes me suspect him less. If the investigation reveals this was just a tragic accident, then so be it. If those who thought MP was involved were wrong, and those who thought Gail abandoned her kids were wrong, so be it.

    I just hope that 1) we get some definitive answers, 2) Gail is memorialized in a way deserving of her memory, and 3) Gail's family can continue to play a part in the lives of her children.

    BBM.. Unfortunately the information revealed as to the exact spot where LE is claiming she went off the mountain makes me suspect MP even more than I originally did, IF thats possible...JMHO
    "It's been clear from day one that the contradicting statements from the family members are not the truth," said Capt. Johnny Greenwood, spokesman for the Putnam County Sheriff's Office.

    JUSTICE HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED AND HIDDEN IN THE LAW

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  25. #1113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jade View Post
    There are hills and curves coming from her home that would alert her to car troubles before she got to E. Brow.

    GP was close, very close to help of all kind if she had indication of brake problems.

    SM has a decent sized commercial district [with at least one full service gas station] that she passed right through/by.

    How would someone who tampered with the jeep know that the children wouldn’t be in the car when the brakes went out?

    Also, In order for her to get pushed over the side the other vehicle would have to not only bump her but somehow get GP to turn the wheel towards the bluff and propel the jeep for the distance with force.

    Anyone under attack would fight instinctively away from the bluff, imo.

    The tire marks in the video are not churned up or ragged and deep like the brakes were being held down or the gear shift in Park and there is only one set.

    The attacking car would have to keep propelling to get her to go in the direction of the bluff across the grass pushing the heavy rock thus making another set of tracks.

    IMO, unless GP was going at a very high rate of speed a bump from behind would not have sent her that far out of control.

    GP’s gentle nature doesn’t led one to think she would speeding through a quiet residential area known for walkers of all ages being present.

    I think the HCSD is being delicate by calling it an accident.



    All IMO
    Hi Jade, I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I am curious about the bolded statement. Are you saying that you think that Gail purposely drove off the mountain or that it wasn't an accident? Thanks, Melodie

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  27. #1114
    Quote Originally Posted by Jade View Post
    There are hills and curves coming from her home that would alert her to car troubles before she got to E. Brow.

    GP was close, very close to help of all kind if she had indication of brake problems.

    SM has a decent sized commercial district [with at least one full service gas station] that she passed right through/by.

    How would someone who tampered with the jeep know that the children wouldn’t be in the car when the brakes went out?

    Also, In order for her to get pushed over the side the other vehicle would have to not only bump her but somehow get GP to turn the wheel towards the bluff and propel the jeep for the distance with force.

    Anyone under attack would fight instinctively away from the bluff, imo.

    The tire marks in the video are not churned up or ragged and deep like the brakes were being held down or the gear shift in Park and there is only one set.

    The attacking car would have to keep propelling to get her to go in the direction of the bluff across the grass pushing the heavy rock thus making another set of tracks.

    IMO, unless GP was going at a very high rate of speed a bump from behind would not have sent her that far out of control.

    GP’s gentle nature doesn’t led one to think she would speeding through a quiet residential area known for walkers of all ages being present.

    I think the HCSD is being delicate by calling it an accident.



    All IMO
    This is a lovely sentiment...but...when you are afraid...any number of things could happen....I do not think someone would have to hit Gail to cause an accident. It would be logical to use speed to evade a tail. JMO

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  29. #1115
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    Quote Originally Posted by F. Lee View Post
    "Highly unlikely" struck me in your quote. I agree.

    I'm a local who has followed this case from the time it (finally) was mentioned in the media. I never met Gail and don't know anyone who knew her, but her case has touched me and so many people who live in this community. I feel more should have been done to help find Gail from day one. Many people are so sad for her and for her children. I'm grateful for the people who worked so hard to keep her story in the media. Without their help I don't know if Gail and the Jeep would have ever been found.

    My house is about a mile from the site where her Jeep went over the bluff... the entire mountain now knows the exact spot. I know six people who this week decided to drive the East Brow Road site where the Jeep went over...including the man who lives across the road from it. None, except for me, had preconceived opinions. Each person, and that includes me, said the same thing: this had to be intentional.

    Either Gail had an incredible plan devised, where circumstances aligned and she returned her children to her home even as she thought someone was following and threatening her. She told her sister as she drove that she was afraid and asked the police to meet her. Yet amidst all the drama of the past days and months she was then able to drive to the Brow Road site and execute a seemingly impossible 90' right angle turn at exactly the spot where the stone wall was just barely wide enough to drive a Jeep through, and continue on through grass and a hedge to fall to her death. Or something else happened.

    I've driven East Brow Road hundreds of times. It's at such a high elevation and has such a sheer drop to the valley that it seems you're looking out an airplane window. It is, however, a perfectly straight road -- no curves or dips or undulations. When driving from the Hampton Road side and driving up toward the site the Jeep went over, I found it impossible to see how anyone could thread the needle to drive through that small opening without doing damage to something other than a rock -- and they are rocks, not huge boulders. The area there is a lot more narrow than the elongated view that Google shows. Coming from the other direction (from the W Road side) is just as bad -- the driver is on the "house" side of the road and has the smallest bit more of a view when driving. Still not enough that any of the six people I know said they would be able to maneuver.

    As I said before, six people have this week driven the route and each one said there was no way this was anything except intentional. Their ages range from a 28 year-old man who drives a truck for a living and drives the road regularly, to the 70-something person who lives on the Brow Road and drives it daily.

    If any other locals are reading this, it would be very insightful to hear from you with your thoughts about the accident site. Looking at it on the map and actually driving it makes a huge difference. Please take the time to drive it and see what you think. I hope this is thoroughly investigated and not pronounced a tragic accident. Many things that happen in our county result in being called a tragic accident -- we already know that much, but has every possible scenario been investigated as to what caused it?It's sad to miss someone you never met. Many on this mountain feel that way.


    F. Lee, Count me in. I too am local and have to agree with you and the others who have driven by the scene on the Brow. I have been out there specifically to drive it as you do and experience the spacial feeling of that location. I also have to reiterate that the images such as those on Google do give an inacurate perception of space, making it seem much wider than it is. A 90 degree turn in this particular area would be extremely awkward and difficult, especially when traveling from Hampton towards the W.

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  31. #1116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish_Eyes View Post
    I've heard it said that AD is to blame for getting people all stirred up and thinking the worst about MP. Yet AD WAS NOT the source (or in the case of being afraid, not the sole source), of ANY of what made me the most suspicious.
    Thank you so much for writing that! I think many of us had heard all about this case and formed some opinions before AD ever did a single interview with the media. I based my own personal opinion on things MP said himself and the circumstances of the disappearance, also based on things LE said to the press.

    And seriously, if AD had never existed I would probably have the same opinions. But I'm so glad Gail had a loyal friend - those are rare in the world.

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  35. #1118
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    When someone you love becomes a memory, the memory becomes a treasure.

    Rest In Peace Gail

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0NoHN1TU5I&feature=related"]Enya - Only Time - YouTube[/ame]
    "It's been clear from day one that the contradicting statements from the family members are not the truth," said Capt. Johnny Greenwood, spokesman for the Putnam County Sheriff's Office.

    JUSTICE HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED AND HIDDEN IN THE LAW

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  37. #1119
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    A person on a mountain, being tailed - chased by a vehicle trying to make them crash, is scared to death, does not have many options, cell phone service irregular and probably needs two hands on the steering wheel anyway. I don't think there is any way the other vehicle touched her as the perpetrator would not leave any identification marks on her vehicle.

    Two things that point it was not suicide - the forwarding address she filled out and she had her cell phone charging. If she was on a mission to drive off the mountain, why would she be charging her phone??

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  39. #1120
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    Did Gail have a divorce lawyer? Had she advised her lawyer she was being tailed?

    For future references, if you have a good divorce lawyer, be sure to notify them if you are or think you are being tailed.

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  41. #1121
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    I pray that Law Enforcement will have enough evidence to come to a conclusion about how Gail lost her life. I have thought about her every day since she disappeared; and although I find some comfort that she was found so that her remains are not left to the elements any longer; I am sad that she died alone. I am sad for her children to grow up without their mom, and the comfort and love only a mom can give. May they be loved well by their family.
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  43. #1122
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    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7f7TT1A59U"]Gail Palmgren - YouTube[/ame]
    "It's been clear from day one that the contradicting statements from the family members are not the truth," said Capt. Johnny Greenwood, spokesman for the Putnam County Sheriff's Office.

    JUSTICE HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED AND HIDDEN IN THE LAW

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    Please continue here...

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7427723#post7427723"]TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #13 Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
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    Muddy water in the street
    ; Muddy water 'round my feet... as sung by the inimitable Bessie Smith, "Muddy Water (A Mississippi Moan)"



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