830 users online (198 members and 632 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 69
  1. #16
    kpdx's Avatar
    kpdx is offline Jane Doe was discovered Aug. 14, 1977 outside of Everett WA
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    PDX, OR
    Posts
    454
    i am so glad to see someone is staying the course on the south america connection! i brought this up in 2009 (thread #4) and was completely ignored. i think the photos of jacq and jane, both from ME and at the scene show a lot of similarities to pictures from the Desaparecidos walls.

    looking at the crime scene photos, IMO, its a pro hit....they were executed.

    has anyone talked directly to LE about possible connections to S. America? or, alternatively, thought about contacting some of the webmasters for desaprarecidos websites and asked to put up pictures of jacq and jane?
    'Nothing clears up a case so much as stating it to another person.'

    Sherlock Holmes

  2. #17
    kpdx's Avatar
    kpdx is offline Jane Doe was discovered Aug. 14, 1977 outside of Everett WA
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    PDX, OR
    Posts
    454
    http://www.desaparecidos.org/arg/victimas/s/saraceno/

    i also think these two are a good possible, just because some of the features are really, really close.
    'Nothing clears up a case so much as stating it to another person.'

    Sherlock Holmes

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,955
    Quote Originally Posted by kpdx View Post
    http://www.desaparecidos.org/arg/victimas/s/saraceno/

    i also think these two are a good possible, just because some of the features are really, really close.
    Wow.
    Those two are dead ringers....

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,341
    It's probably been mentioned but wouldn't DNA give the country and region of birth. I know testing on Roman remains over here can sometimes pinpoint a resonable area to go on.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    3,859
    Quote Originally Posted by kpdx View Post
    i am so glad to see someone is staying the course on the south america connection! i brought this up in 2009 (thread #4) and was completely ignored. i think the photos of jacq and jane, both from ME and at the scene show a lot of similarities to pictures from the Desaparecidos walls.

    looking at the crime scene photos, IMO, its a pro hit....they were executed.

    has anyone talked directly to LE about possible connections to S. America? or, alternatively, thought about contacting some of the webmasters for desaprarecidos websites and asked to put up pictures of jacq and jane?
    Last Summer, I sent a lenghty letter to the current Sumter County Coroner, along with pictures and the text from the WS post from Redmeli that IMHO explains how Maria and Cesar made it to the United States from Argentina. I never heard anything back - not even a "thank you for your interest" letter. The lack of a response is really annoying, as a tax paying South Carolina citizen. I am not giving up.... sometime in June of this year, I hope to make a trip up to the area, speak to the coroner face to face, and visit the grave site, and the site where they were killed. I will share pictures with all of you here on WS's. I also made contact with a representative of the Desprarecidos group from New York. They also were less than helpful.....but, it was a volunteer, so take that for what it is worth. We have a new poster here on WS's who speaks Spanish, and is attempting contact with the Argentina group. I am so convinced that Jock and Jane Doe are Cesar and Maria that I need to see resolution, or I need to see them ruled out so that I can move on to another angle. This case can.... and WILL be solved. It haunts me.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,015
    A long shot, I know, but could this couple possible have come to the US from South America for training and/or sabotage at Fort Benning? While the School of the Americas was not yet relocated there, there is evidence that the CIA was training Latin American individuals there as early as 1963 or so.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    2,731
    Was anyone able to see the "hair moles" on Maria that are known to be on Jane Doe in South Carolina?

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    114

    Maria's moles

    Quote Originally Posted by BOESP View Post
    Was anyone able to see the "hair moles" on Maria that are known to be on Jane Doe in South Carolina?
    The attached photo, though grainy, shows what appear to be the two moles.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple." ~Oscar Wilde

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    299

    Justice is political

    Quote Originally Posted by Reannan View Post
    Last Summer, I sent a lenghty letter to the current Sumter County Coroner, along with pictures and the text from the WS post from Redmeli that IMHO explains how Maria and Cesar made it to the United States from Argentina. I never heard anything back - not even a "thank you for your interest" letter. The lack of a response is really annoying, as a tax paying South Carolina citizen. I am not giving up.... sometime in June of this year, I hope to make a trip up to the area, speak to the coroner face to face, and visit the grave site, and the site where they were killed. I will share pictures with all of you here on WS's. I also made contact with a representative of the Desprarecidos group from New York. They also were less than helpful.....but, it was a volunteer, so take that for what it is worth. We have a new poster here on WS's who speaks Spanish, and is attempting contact with the Argentina group. I am so convinced that Jock and Jane Doe are Cesar and Maria that I need to see resolution, or I need to see them ruled out so that I can move on to another angle. This case can.... and WILL be solved. It haunts me.
    Sumter County simply doesn't have any interest in this case. They don't even have a file on it anymore.

    SLED won't do anything since "it's Sumter County's case." The local SLED agent said she would forward my own report to former coroner Verna Moore. She didn't. But I did talk to Mrs. Moore myself. She seems intelligent and reasonable, but she doesn't have any official authority anymore.

    Furthermore, these two were probably killed by Miami-based Cuban exile terrorists Luis Posada Carilles and Orlando Bosch (CORU), who have been protected by the Bush family and the Republican Party (Illeana Ros) since before the Bay of Pigs. Sumter is an exceedingly right-leaning town.

    It's been documented that the CIA (then led by future president George H. W. Bush, who pardoned Bosch in 1990) actually lied to the FBI about the Letellier bombing in September 1976. Same players. Incredibly, in 2005 (while son George W. Bush was president), the FBI destroyed its files on Posada (read Ann Louise Bardach).

    Also, the local papers have withered to hardly anything. There simply isn't much investigative journalism anymore.

    Finally, the Argentineans aren't going to want to believe that the most famous witness against the junta, Adolfo Scilingo, really was a bulls*** artist when he said María Marta gave birth at ESMA. He later recanted; at his 2005 trial he said he never even worked at ESMA. He was always a complete flake, but the human-rights activists are deeply invested in best-selling story "The Flight" he peddled to Verbitsky.

    My favorite suspect is Posada. He trained at Fort Benning and was married in nearby Columbus, Ga. Before the murders he and Bosch were actually in Buenos Aires offering their services to the Argentine junta. They even started signing their communiqués "El Condor." Posada was a very sophisticated operator who at one time was head of Venezuela's state security service.

    It is absurd to think the Lugones connection, first suggested around four years ago, hasn't been pursued by law enforcement. The reasons for this, like the murders themselves, might be purely political.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,338
    What a fascinating theory...I am very impressed by the investigation done here, and the work and dedication put forth.

    Respectfully, though, I have a hard time with the fact that the young couple were seemingly hanging out in South Carolina, at racing car venues...getting manicures...

    I read the U.S. State Department's Argentina Declassification Project ebooks, and it was interesting,and sad reading... According to National Security Archive's Electronic Briefing Book # 104, edited by Carlos Osario, Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, along with our own intelligence agencies, was urging the Junta in Buenos Aires to hurry up and round any suspected dissidents up, and get rid of the evidence before our Congress came back from its recess. Kissinger believed that Congress would cut Argentina's military funding...

    I am thinking that the United States might not have been a place for this young couple to come to, given the politics involved ?How comfortable would they really have felt here ? Canada was probably way more appealing.Or even Spain, as Franco died in 1976...

    But, a fascinating theory, and I am glad to be able to post here... Liz.


  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    299

    Rendition

    There is a possibility the couple never left the custody of the junta's agents. There are documented cases of disappeared victims being abducted in one country (i.e. Peru) and executed in another (Spain, Mexico).

    I suspect they were taken from South America to Miami, interrogated or made to identify other Peronists, and merely driven way out in the countryside (i.e. the 12 hours to SC) to be executed, as the regime did to other victims within Argentina.

    In other words, Operation Condor essentially extended to Miami. In court hearings there was testimony that Argentina's Batalion 601 had a base there. The anti-Castro Cuban exile group CORU had been working directly with the governments of Peru and Argentina, and signed its letters "El Condor."

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    9,338
    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp Fox Trot View Post
    There is a possibility the couple never left the custody of the junta's agents. There are documented cases of disappeared victims being abducted in one country (i.e. Peru) and executed in another (Spain, Mexico).

    I suspect they were taken from South America to Miami, interrogated or made to identify other Peronists, and merely driven way out in the countryside (i.e. the 12 hours to SC) to be executed, as the regime did to other victims within Argentina.

    In other words, Operation Condor essentially extended to Miami. In court hearings there was testimony that Argentina's Batalion 601 had a base there. The anti-Castro Cuban exile group CORU had been working directly with the governments of Peru and Argentina, and signed its letters "El Condor."
    Could be...but, if they had been interrogated in Miami, they would probably have been killed and left in the Everglades someplace.They would likely never have been found. The bodies seemed kind of posed to me, as though their killers wanted them to be found quickly... Also, it seems a little bit unlikely that they would have been brought to Miami. Very risky if it had ever leaked.And no need to take that risk ; they could have been interrogated anywhere in Argentina...

    I kind of think this was drug related,rather than political.Who knows,though ? What happened to any DNA ?

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    3,859
    I think it is reasonable to think this couple, if from Argentina, were smuggled into California, given some funds, and then set free to travel across the US... thus the Grant's Truck Stop matches and turquoise jewelry. As to how they met their demise.... could have been targeted, could have been pure bad luck and wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time kind of thing. I still want DNA compared to the Argentina database. There is another thread on this case where there is a REMARKABLE resemblance to a couple that went missing from the Pacific Ocean a few months before Jock and Jane Doe were murdered. The case could be drug related, which I don't think would be a huge surprise back in 1976 or today. The bottom line, is that there are reasonable explanations for why TWO people could be missing and unidentified, but it is a fairly short list of suspects, and there is opportunity to continue the pursuit for answers in this case. I remain hopeful and committed to finding answers.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by liz b. View Post
    Could be...but, if they had been interrogated in Miami, they would probably have been killed and left in the Everglades someplace.They would likely never have been found. The bodies seemed kind of posed to me, as though their killers wanted them to be found quickly... Also, it seems a little bit unlikely that they would have been brought to Miami. Very risky if it had ever leaked.And no need to take that risk ; they could have been interrogated anywhere in Argentina...

    I kind of think this was drug related,rather than political.Who knows,though ? What happened to any DNA ?
    Like I said, they were hunting down subversives outside the country, in the US and all over the world, and they used captives to identify them. Driving victims several hours into the countryside was a technique also used in disappearances within Argentina. I believe the killer was familiar with the crime scene; Lonnie Henry lived just an hour away from it.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    299
    It's been established the CIA actively lied to the media and even the FBI regarding DINA (Chilean secret police) involvement in the Letelier assassination of September 1976. Furthermore, in finally getting Chile to turn over their agent Michael Townley, the U.S. Justice Dept. agreed not to investigate any other DINA crimes. Hence, no federal investigation of the August 1976 execution of these two in SC, and possibly a CIA coverup.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. guess where he hid his phone
    By bracken123 in forum Bizarre and Off-Beat News
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-01-2008, 09:50 AM