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  1. #196
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    This Youtube subscriber has very kindly uploaded all of the trial video so far and hopefully they will continue so that we can recap if necessary, or watch parts that we've missed.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=289XESy2WEE"]Conrad Murray Trial - Day 5, part 1 - YouTube[/ame]
    Oh what a tangled web we weave,
    when we set out to deceive!

  2. #197
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    Was the bag still connected to the urine catheter once in ER? I ask b/c it is interesting to note that there was no urine in it? Does the body not expel the urine upon death and the relaxation of the muscles? If so, that means that Dr. Murray had already gotten rid of any urine from that evening. It may have been the urine in the jar, IDK, but if there was none and if the bag was dry, then that was a new bag and the doc may have dumped it to avoid propofol detection?

    Unless I have included a link, it is my opinion and only my opinion that I am expressing.

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes View Post
    On GMA this morning I heard that Michael Jackson's fingerprints were NOT FOUND on any of the propofol vials.

    IMO
    He always wore white gloves!

    (ha sorry poor taste)

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21merc7 View Post
    Was the bag still connected to the urine catheter once in ER? I ask b/c it is interesting to note that there was no urine in it? Does the body not expel the urine upon death and the relaxation of the muscles? If so, that means that Dr. Murray had already gotten rid of any urine from that evening. It may have been the urine in the jar, IDK, but if there was none and if the bag was dry, then that was a new bag and the doc may have dumped it to avoid propofol detection?
    From what I've been able to gather this morning is that there was a bottle urine found by the coroner investigator. This bottle had urine in it and it was in MJ's bedroom. It didn't sound like, from yesterday's testimony, that there was anything connected to the urine catheter in the ER and there was no urine in the condom part. So, sounds to me like he had already expelled any urine his bladder had long before he went to the ER.

    I did look it up on several websites and some say you always empty bladder and bowels upon death due to muscle relaxation and a few others went further to say, yes the muscles relax and you will expel from both bladder and bowels if they are full. So I suppose it all depends on the person's condition at the time of death.
    Unless I've provided a link, everything I say is IMO

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    As far as I remember no one has mentioned any urine collection bag or bottle or jug except Ms Grace loudly on her show. The urine could have been collected in a used pickle jar that was emptied into the toilet in the mornings. But I don't recall anyone specifically saying anything about it. It sounded like the only part that anyone saw was the condom catheter itself and a piece of tubing attached, no urine bag or receptacle. There was no urine passed from the patient at the hospital.
    I would bet that there was a bag attached to the catheter and it was emptied and/or detached from the catheter prior to them transporting him to the hospital. If he had been dead for some time by the time Dr. Murray found him unresponsive, then his bladder would have already emptied. Paramedics might not have thought to save any urine, and I am guessing that Dr. Murray would be smart enough to know that the urine would probably be tested, thus he got rid of the evidence. JMO
    I have a very strong feeling that Michael was dead for a considerable time before Dr. Murray started alerting the staff. That's also MOO.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxLady2 View Post
    I would bet that there was a bag attached to the catheter and it was emptied and/or detached from the catheter prior to them transporting him to the hospital. If he had been dead for some time by the time Dr. Murray found him unresponsive, then his bladder would have already emptied. Paramedics might not have thought to save any urine, and I am guessing that Dr. Murray would be smart enough to know that the urine would probably be tested, thus he got rid of the evidence. JMO
    I have a very strong feeling that Michael was dead for a considerable time before Dr. Murray started alerting the staff. That's also MOO.
    BBM

    I have the same belief.
    Unless I've provided a link, everything I say is IMO

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talina View Post
    From what I've been able to gather this morning is that there was a bottle urine found by the coroner investigator. This bottle had urine in it and it was in MJ's bedroom. It didn't sound like, from yesterday's testimony, that there was anything connected to the urine catheter in the ER and there was no urine in the condom part. So, sounds to me like he had already expelled any urine his bladder had long before he went to the ER.

    I did look it up on several websites and some say you always empty bladder and bowels upon death due to muscle relaxation and a few others went further to say, yes the muscles relax and you will expel from both bladder and bowels if they are full. So I suppose it all depends on the person's condition at the time of death.

    I worked in nursing homes for around 20 years and was on duty many times when a patient died. They do not always evacuate the bowels or bladder. The aides were always instructed to check the patient and clean them up if necessary before the funeral home staff arrived to pick them up. Several times I recall there was nothing there to clean up, they had not evacuated at all. A few patients had a small amount of urine and/or feces, but not many had very large amounts. Might be the fact that they were elderly, or maybe their bodies just shut down before their hearts stopped.. IDK. I do recall a nurse telling me that the body continues to produce some waste, even if they are not getting any nourishment.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulmagent View Post
    He always wore white gloves!

    (ha sorry poor taste)


    He always wore white gloves when Murray was giving him propofol? But you are right that is probably what the DT will come up with Soul! LOLOLOLOL!

    He began to wear gloves because his hands were beginning to show he had the skin disease vitilago. I would give anything to be able to buy one of those sequined gloves.

    Michael Jackson's Fingerprints Not On Any Propofol Bottles Michael Jackson's Fingerprints Not On Any Propofol Bottles

    As Dr. Conrad Murray's involuntary manslaughter trial enters its second week, RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned that Michael Jackson's fingerprints were not found on any of the Propofol bottles.

    "Plain and simply, the Los Angeles Police Department didn't find any fingerprints of Michael Jackson's on ANY Propofol bottles or the Lorazepam bottles. There were no partial fingerprints of Michael's or any unknown prints on the medication bottles," a source close to the situation tells us.

    http://www.radaronline.com/exclusive...ray-defense-he
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxLady2 View Post
    I worked in nursing homes for around 20 years and was on duty many times when a patient died. They do not always evacuate the bowels or bladder. The aides were always instructed to check the patient and clean them up if necessary before the funeral home staff arrived to pick them up. Several times I recall there was nothing there to clean up, they had not evacuated at all. A few patients had a small amount of urine and/or feces, but not many had very large amounts. Might be the fact that they were elderly, or maybe their bodies just shut down before their hearts stopped.. IDK. I do recall a nurse telling me that the body continues to produce some waste, even if they are not getting any nourishment.
    I know when my mother passed away she did not release any urine or feces.

    I have also read articles through the years that it is not set in stone that a person will evacuate the bowels or bladder. Some do ......some dont.

    IMO
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes View Post
    I know when my mother passed away she did not release any urine or feces.

    I have also read articles through the years that it is not set in stone that a person will evacuate the bowels or bladder. Some do ......some dont.

    IMO
    Apparently there was a bottle containing urine in MJ's bedroom. Why wouldn't the person who collected it flush it down the toilet?


  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talina View Post
    That still does not make sense, to me, as to why the prosecution would call this witness. Why would they want to bolster anything about another physician being impressed? The prosecution is not who solicited that testimony, the defense is so I am again back to my original question.What did this witness offer as a prosecution witness?
    Yes, Talina, I agree it doesn't make sense -- but I listed it also because she, like so many other quickie witnesses who were called around her, was only up there because the PT wanted to establish his being on the phone when he shouldn't have been -- that's it. And the PT was really piling it on! I can't remember for sure who pulled that little "impressed" remark out of the hat.

    I was just an taking all-too-subtle jab at the defense in that they have to take their points when they can get them -- no matter from whom or how small those positives are. It was unexpected but tiny collateral damage to the PT. And I could just hear the DT saying, "Yeah, so there." But they know, they know, they are in deep poo
    Last edited by borndem; 10-04-2011 at 09:40 PM. Reason: added "an"; unclear wording


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