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  1. #511
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    I think Lisa's parents need to keep her name out in public not LE! That is even if she is still with us. jmo imo

  2. #512
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    I can't believe it's been 6 years since Lisa went missing. I haven't been on WS in a while, I logged in today only to see all the same unsolved cases. I imagine in 10 more years they'll still be unsolved. So many missing, so many dead without resolution. So much sadness.

  3. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by askfornina View Post
    There was a married couple who saw a man walking with at infant shortly after midnight the night/morning Lisa went missing. There is also surveillance video from a BP station a short distance away from the Irwin home, recorded at around 2:15am- not much is seen in that video, just a blob walking down the road. Shortly after 4am a man on a motorcycle (MT) says he saw a man carrying a baby a few miles away from the Irwin home. IMO, the first sighting is the most compelling. The married couple saw the man walk into the yard of the house John "Jersey" Tanko was staying/working at. John Tanko was the homeless "handyman" in the neighborhood, and the ex-boyfriend of Megan Wright, the woman who's phone number was dialed from one of the missing Irwin cellphones. Her and Jersey broke up about a week before Lisa went missing. He is currently incarcerated on vehicle tampering charges.

    Here is a video of the wife explaining to Jim Spellman what her and her husband saw that night.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EvF...rAF4NjTg0l7--A

    Starting at 6:15 in this video, reporter Jim Spellman travels through the area where the man was seen walking.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwcp...rAF4NjTg0l7--A

    At 7:50 in that video, Jim points out a dumpster in the Townhouse parking lot that can be seen from the backyard. That dumpster was set on fire at approx 2:30am the night Lisa went missing.

    In the video below, neighbor MH explains that Jersey was doing yard work that day at her next door neighbor's house. She saw him at around 1pm when she left to run errands. When she returned from her errands at around 9:30pm, she noticed that the sprinklers in the yard next door were still on. At around 11pm, she noticed they had been turned off. The ground had become muddy from the sprinklers. The next morning after Lisa was reported missing, KCPD took footprint casts in the muddy area.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4V8...rAF4NjTg0l7--A

    Some videos about the other sighting and BP surveillance..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm-u...rAF4NjTg0l7--A
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEpX...rAF4NjTg0l7--A

    Here is a map of the area. BP station and MT sighting not shown.



    This is a timeline of the sightings based on information from those videos and other MSM links.

    1:00pm-As she was leaving to run errands, MH, who lives around the corner from the Irwin home on N.Chelsea Ave., saw John Tanko doing yard work at the home of her next door neighbor, who was out of town.

    9:30pm-MH noticed that the sprinklers were still turned on at her neighbor's house when she returned home from her errands.

    11:00pm- MH noticed that the sprinklers had been turned off.

    12:15am-Around the corner from the Irwin home on N.Chelsea Ave., a man was leaving his house to go to work. As he was walking to his car, he noticed a man carrying a baby down the street. His wife watched the man through the front window of their home. The married couple saw the man walking toward the yard of MH's neighbor's house. Police later interviewed the couple at least 4 times about the sighting. Later in the morning, police took casts of footprints from the area leading into the backyard. MH told Jim Spellman that John Tanko and his girlfriend at the time, Megan Wright, would often cut though that backyard as a shortcut to the N.Brighton Townhouses.

    2:15am-Surveillance video from a BP station located at N.Brighton and Parvin Rd., not far from the Irwin home, shows a person walking along the road. The store manager said it is unusual to see someone walking in that area at that time of night.

    2:27am-A dumpster fire is reported in the parking lot of the N.Brighton Townhouses, located at 5057 NE 37th St. near the Irwin home. On September 16th, 2011, Megan Wright's car was set on fire in a different area of the same parking lot.

    4:10am-The first police car arrived at the Irwin home after Lisa was reported missing.
    A man riding a motorcycle said he saw a man walking with a baby in his arms at the intersection of NE 48th St. and N.Randolph.
    I have forgotten so much about this case, so your timeline is greatly appreciated! . I just finished watching the 2016 People Investigates special about baby Lisa. I donít even remember what my opinion was back in 2011 concerning what happened to her, but IMO in this interview, as well as previous ones Iíve seen, both of her parents come across as grieving, sincere and believable. I also find the sightings of the man with the baby and the John Tanko / Megan Wright connection to be the most compelling. Too much going on there to ignore it or believe otherwise, IMO. I really find it hard to believe this case remains unsolved. Terribly sad.

  4. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by neesaki View Post
    I have forgotten so much about this case, so your timeline is greatly appreciated! . I just finished watching the 2016 People Investigates special about baby Lisa. I don’t even remember what my opinion was back in 2011 concerning what happened to her, but IMO in this interview, as well as previous ones I’ve seen, both of her parents come across as grieving, sincere and believable. I also find the sightings of the man with the baby and the John Tanko / Megan Wright connection to be the most compelling. Too much going on there to ignore it or believe otherwise, IMO. I really find it hard to believe this case remains unsolved. Terribly sad.
    I just watched the ID TV/People Magazine program. I need to go back and look at the news articles and older threads. I don't remember now why I discounted the sightings at the time, but I was definitely one of those who felt the solution lay closer to home. I agree that the call to Megan Wright is compelling. I suppose the alternate theory is that the phones were tossed where they would be easily accessible and apt to throw off the investigation. Even if the phones weren't picked up, that would still support the robbery theory. That would take a lot of plotting by a person who was intoxicated, however. When this all happened, I think I couldn't get past the 3 or 4 or 7 or 10 glasses of wine or the changing timeline. There is the possibility that a neighborhood figure could have observed the stoop happenings and decided to take advantage of the situation. Now I don't know what to think.

  5. #515
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    keeponsearching is offline The mighty Oak was once a little nut that stood its ground.
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    6 years have gone by. Wow.. I barely remember any facts in this case. But just reading what is posted about the call, and the car on fire I am one not to believe things are just a coincidence. I am going to re look over the timeline, and different stories that have been told.

    I think its hard to believe someone could actually come into a home and take a baby/child. And it not be the parent. But it happens, I think more than we know. I always think about Riley Fox when children go missing at home. If you have not read about Riley, I would suggest it.

  6. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by keeponsearching View Post
    6 years have gone by. Wow.. I barely remember any facts in this case. But just reading what is posted about the call, and the car on fire I am one not to believe things are just a coincidence. I am going to re look over the timeline, and different stories that have been told.

    I think its hard to believe someone could actually come into a home and take a baby/child. And it not be the parent. But it happens, I think more than we know. I always think about Riley Fox when children go missing at home. If you have not read about Riley, I would suggest it.
    Lisa's parents actually spoke with Kathleen Zellner, Kevin Fox's attorney, in the first couple of weeks after Lisa went missing.



    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...13/joy.01.html

    Ash: Let me bring in Kathleen Zellner in for a moment about that and other issues as well because you`ve actually spoken to Lisa`s parents. I`m wondering what the nexus is between you all. How you came to be connected to them, and what it is you`ve been talking about, Kathleen.

    KATHLEEN ZELLNER, ATTORNEY: Well, I had a very similar case in Illinois, and the father was wrongly accused and arrested and incarcerated for the murder of his daughter. And it turned out it wasn`t him. It was a perpetrator who got in the house, very similar situation, front door left open, door unlocked. The police just couldn`t imagine, since there was no signs of forced entry, that there had been a perpetrator. Finally the FBI got involved in the case, it took six years to solve it after the father had been cleared and filed a civil rights suit and all of that.

    It turned out to be a sexual, you know, perpetrator who had gotten in the house, tiny house, come in through the door. Came in to rob the house, so the police realized they should have been checking out the burglary reports.

    (CROSSTALK)

    Ash: So did you reach out then to the Kansas City family because of your experience with -- I think that was --

    ZELLNER: No, they already -- yes, they already knew about that, someone had contacted them, and they had my phone number and called. My purpose in talking to them was to tell them not to be intimidated by public opinion or guided by it.

    Ash: And what about police?

    Zellner: That, you know I had been through it -- also with the police, to be extremely careful.

    You know, the police -- it`s fine to look at the parents, but to be interrogating the parents and accusing them of murder as the mother said within the first 11 or 12 hours isn`t the best way to get cooperation. But you know, I think the problem with police departments in these situations is a lot of times they haven`t had a lot of experience, and they`re under tremendous pressure. And we saw that in the Fox case. I mean there were so many mistakes made.

  7. #517
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    So sad
    Who killed Dennis?

  8. #518
    Where are you, Lisa?


    Photos link: http://www.kctv5.com/story/33288936/...-disappearance

  9. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by deoneta View Post
    I just watched the ID TV/People Magazine program. I need to go back and look at the news articles and older threads. I don't remember now why I discounted the sightings at the time, but I was definitely one of those who felt the solution lay closer to home. I agree that the call to Megan Wright is compelling. I suppose the alternate theory is that the phones were tossed where they would be easily accessible and apt to throw off the investigation. Even if the phones weren't picked up, that would still support the robbery theory. That would take a lot of plotting by a person who was intoxicated, however. When this all happened, I think I couldn't get past the 3 or 4 or 7 or 10 glasses of wine or the changing timeline. There is the possibility that a neighborhood figure could have observed the stoop happenings and decided to take advantage of the situation. Now I don't know what to think.
    --we don't know if DB was really intoxicated. kcmpd never did tox tests nor did they report her intoxicated @ 4am
    --there are no reports of any "neighbourhood figures" not being cleared except for lisa's parents


    Quote Originally Posted by keeponsearching View Post
    I think its hard to believe someone could actually come into a home and take a baby/child. And it not be the parent. But it happens, I think more than we know.
    Stranger abductions
    Stranger Abductions are incredibly rare.
    There are only a handful of cases of newborn babies being kidnapped. Those are generally violent attacks involving infants being cut out of the womb.
    “Why would this child at this age be disappearing now?” former FBI agent Michael Tabman questions.
    “I do not believe this was a stranger abduction,” Tabman said.


    http://www.kctv5.com/story/33288936/...-disappearance
    *** THIS POST IS JMO (unless a link is provided) AND IS ONLY FOR USE ON WEBSLEUTHS -- PLEASE DO NOT LINK OR COPY IT ELSEWHERE ***

  10. #520
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    The study authors analyzed 247 cases of baby abductions by strangers in the United States from 1983 to 2006. All cases involved babies 6 months old or younger.

    https://consumer.healthday.com/careg...rn-619077.html
    *** THIS POST IS JMO (unless a link is provided) AND IS ONLY FOR USE ON WEBSLEUTHS -- PLEASE DO NOT LINK OR COPY IT ELSEWHERE ***


  11. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by redheadedgal View Post
    --there are no reports of any "neighbourhood figures" not being cleared except for lisa's parents
    No one has been publicly cleared or named a suspect in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by redheadedgal View Post
    The study authors analyzed 247 cases of baby abductions by strangers in the United States from 1983 to 2006. All cases involved babies 6 months old or younger.

    https://consumer.healthday.com/careg...rn-619077.html
    David Finkelhor is quoted in the article you linked. He is the director of the Crimes Against Children Research Center at the University of New Hampshire and a researcher for the National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway, and Thrownaway Children. He wrote this article for Washington Post in 2013. This part stood out to me...

    But children taken by strangers or slight acquaintances represent only one-hundredth of 1 percent of all missing children. The last comprehensive study estimated that the number was 115 in a year.
    --
    The only scenario more unusual than stereotypical kidnapping is when families falsely report a child as missing to disguise murderous deeds.
    IMO, statistics are something to consider, but looking at where the evidence leads is much more crucial. Rare does not mean impossible. Rare does not mean it never, ever happens.

  12. #522
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    I remember when Judge Jeanine Piro on Fox News went to the house and interviewed Lisa’s parents. I still don’t think anyone intentionally harmed Lisa, I think it was a tragic accident that was covered up for fear of losing the other children. I don’t think the truth will ever be publicly known.
    The man in my avatar may have killed two innocent teenagers Abigail Williams and Liberty German. If you know who he is Please call the tip line. There is a reward of $250,000 - Tel- 844.459.5786 or email: abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

    The dead cannot cry out for justice. It is a duty of the living to do so for them. Lois McMaster Bujold.

  13. #523
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    Between two periods -- 1983-1992 and 1993-2006 -- the percentage of abductions in hospitals and other health-care facilities fell from 63 percent to 32 percent, while the percentage of abductions in private homes grew from 29 percent to 49 percent. The overwhelming majority of abductors -- 96 percent -- were women. And almost all of the abducted babies -- 95 percent -- were found.

    Male strangers very rarely abduct babies, said David Finkelhor, director of the Crimes Against Children Research Center at the University of New Hampshire. "The main motive is getting a child to raise as their own," he said. "Men in general don't want to be burdened by the care of a child of this age who has so many needs."

    https://consumer.healthday.com/careg...rn-619077.html

    This is from the same link as above. Where 96% are usually women, and men rarely abduct baby's, which would debunk the man carrying a baby around.

    I found more statements in the article against the likely hood of abduction then for the possibility. imo

    As far as I know there is no investigation going on except that they are still following leads. It has been 6 years now unless something new comes up I doubt if much is going on in the investigation. again imo moo

  14. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewels53 View Post
    Between two periods -- 1983-1992 and 1993-2006 -- the percentage of abductions in hospitals and other health-care facilities fell from 63 percent to 32 percent, while the percentage of abductions in private homes grew from 29 percent to 49 percent. The overwhelming majority of abductors -- 96 percent -- were women. And almost all of the abducted babies -- 95 percent -- were found.

    Male strangers very rarely abduct babies, said David Finkelhor, director of the Crimes Against Children Research Center at the University of New Hampshire. "The main motive is getting a child to raise as their own," he said. "Men in general don't want to be burdened by the care of a child of this age who has so many needs."

    https://consumer.healthday.com/careg...rn-619077.html

    This is from the same link as above. Where 96% are usually women, and men rarely abduct baby's, which would debunk the man carrying a baby around.

    I found more statements in the article against the likely hood of abduction then for the possibility. imo

    As far as I know there is no investigation going on except that they are still following leads. It has been 6 years now unless something new comes up I doubt if much is going on in the investigation. again imo moo
    Thanks for the statistical data. I think we might want to use some caution in relying on statistics to answer the mysteries and questions of life. After all, they are only statistics. And real life is.... well, real life.

    And the fact is that people, male and female, do abduct children of various ages from various places, including from private homes. Every case is different, and no one can say it never happens or that it couldnít possibly have happened. JMO

  15. #525
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    semantics aside,

    jersey cleared
    Police never named Tanko a suspect and said he cooperated with investigators who were satisfied with his answers.

    http://www.azfamily.com/story/332889...-disappearance


    jeremy cleared
    ďThey were very quickly able to rule Jeremy out,Ē says defense attorney Cyndy Short.

    https://www.people.com/crime/baby-lisa-irwin-2016-missing-update-parents/amp/


    deb?

    A surveillance camera showed Jeremy on the job. But Deborah was different: No independent witnesses could corroborate her timeline of that night, Short says.

    "I think it's clear they are focusing on the parents and that just does not bode well for this investigation. It's clear police are focusing on mom from the searches at the home to the areas close by. We can surmise what they are focusing on by what's going on."

    http://www.kshb.com/news/region-missouri/northland/former-fbi-agent-explains-why-investigators-searched-the-irwin-home-again
    Last edited by redheadedgal; 11-24-2017 at 02:43 AM.
    *** THIS POST IS JMO (unless a link is provided) AND IS ONLY FOR USE ON WEBSLEUTHS -- PLEASE DO NOT LINK OR COPY IT ELSEWHERE ***

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