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  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda7NJ View Post
    I think you're absolutely correct.

    I was given propofol in the ER to reset my arm after it was broken. I was out in a second, there was no counting backwards, no groggyness just lights out.
    I agree as well. I've been put to sleep a number of times recently, and as soon as that stuff hits my blood stream, I'm out. No drifting into sleep, just bam, lights out, like you said.
    I don't think Michael could have drank the stuff, either. Propofol burns, that's why they inject lidocaine with it, to counteract the burning, and the ME would have found evidence of burning in his throat if he injested it orally. The point is, propofol should never have been given outside a hospital setting because the patient needs to be monitored the whole time they are asleep, and even for a few minutes after they wake up. It is dangerous stuff.

    I'm not getting into whether Michael was an addict or not. If he wasn't already, he would have been with the array of drugs lined up on that prosecution table that was found in that room. Good lord! He had enough stuff there to knock out dozens of people!!

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabelle View Post
    I think CM is way too arrogant to be suicidal.
    Oooohhh yes, Isabelle -- You are so right!! Narcissists just love the way they look and act -- there's just nobody else way up there on that high rung of the ladder. At the defense table, his arrogance is just blazing -- the disdain and the "They're wasting my valuable time," look is all over him.

    "I'm too sexy for my shirt, too sexy for my tie..." and so on.

    It's interesting how many narcissists end up at a defense-of-murder table in a courtroom, don't you think? The perfect crime & all that. "I'm too smart for them."

    But it usually doesn't work that way, huh?!

    Grrrrrrr.


    All posts, unless attributed, are "just my humble opinion," and they are to remain here in Websleuths and are not to be used elsewhere. Thank you.
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    The Angel of the Waters, Bethesda Terrace, Central Park, New York City

  3. #333
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    Aug 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuburnSchnauzer View Post
    Fact of the matter is that Michael Jackson had CUSTODY of two children that were evidently under HIS care !!! How does that happen? We all know MJ is an addict. JJ claims that she and the family tried to put him into treatment but that didn't happen.....Then, he goes into bankruptcy and loses the ranch and all property and some big entertainment company comes along to be the saviour and his family says OK, along with sis JJ.....Pitiful.
    Unless any of us were present in the Jackson home for the years MJ was not performing we cannot say what went on or whether there was illicit drug use. Drugs that are prescribed by an MD are not illicit. Evidently something very good came of MJ's life during those years and his 3 beautiful children are a testament to that. Not an MJ fan, but one who respects all living things.

  4. #334
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    Nov 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxLady2 View Post
    I agree as well. I've been put to sleep a number of times recently, and as soon as that stuff hits my blood stream, I'm out. No drifting into sleep, just bam, lights out, like you said.
    I don't think Michael could have drank the stuff, either. Propofol burns, that's why they inject lidocaine with it, to counteract the burning, and the ME would have found evidence of burning in his throat if he injested it orally. The point is, propofol should never have been given outside a hospital setting because the patient needs to be monitored the whole time they are asleep, and even for a few minutes after they wake up. It is dangerous stuff.

    I'm not getting into whether Michael was an addict or not. If he wasn't already, he would have been with the array of drugs lined up on that prosecution table that was found in that room. Good lord! He had enough stuff there to knock out dozens of people!!

    Interesting. Wonder if his throat was tested during autopsy? Wouldn't it have shown up there if that ridiculous theory were true? I doubt his throat was tested, but if it were, I would think the prosecutors would jump on it once they get to reviewing the autopsy in Court.

    Unless I have included a link, it is my opinion and only my opinion that I am expressing.

  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talina View Post
    My understanding is that the parties to the contract were AEG and Conrad Murray's company. AEG contracted Murray and the contract specifies that they were contracting Murray at MJ's expense (very odd way to draft up a contract IMO). I took that to mean that AEG would be paying Murray but it would be deducted in the end from whatever proceeds would be paid over to MJ from his share of the concert revenue.

    I thought I heard the AEG lawyer say on the stand that MJ was not a party to the contract but his consent (via his signature) was required in order for the contract to be a valid contract. While that might sound like the same thing, for legalities and contract enforcement, it is not the same for consent to be required versus being an actual party to the contract.

    I am not a lawyer but in my line of business I deal with legal documents and contracts a lot and over the past 25 yrs I've been involved in financial documents and contracts that required the consent of a third party but that third party was not a party to the actual document and often times the third party had very little or limited standing to enforce or litigate the majority of the contract.

    I believe the way the contract was drafted is what has given Katherine Jackson the ammunition she is using to sue AEG for wrongful death since it was them, not MJ, that hired Dr. Murray per the legal document that evidences him being hired for the concert tour. ETA: That whole lawsuit has me puzzled because how can one sue another over a contract that was never in force since AEG and MJ never signed it, no money was ever paid but that's another topic for another day. AEG tried to have it thrown out for those reasons and the judge denied their request.



    IMO
    I am pretty sure I heard the contract lady state that MJ was paying Murray. That AEG had nothing to do with paying Murray. That's why I figured it had to be a 3 party contract. One brings the money, one brings the service, one arranges the logistics. But the whole testimony about the contract was contradictory and confusing. I also haven't gone and read the contract and probably won't so I concede that point.

    When AEG was testifying about that contract I could not figure out why they would have anything to do with a contract between a Dr. and patient. I can see them having something to do with travel arrangements for the personal DR. but the rest of it is just confusing.

  6. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    I am pretty sure I heard the contract lady state that MJ was paying Murray. That AEG had nothing to do with paying Murray. That's why I figured it had to be a 3 party contract. One brings the money, one brings the service, one arranges the logistics. But the whole testimony about the contract was contradictory and confusing. I also haven't gone and read the contract and probably won't so I concede that point.

    When AEG was testifying about that contract I could not figure out why they would have anything to do with a contract between a Dr. and patient. I can see them having something to do with travel arrangements for the personal DR. but the rest of it is just confusing.
    No, Thunder, AEG was going to be paying him. Remember he even called them back and told them not to make the payments directly to him but he gave him a company name instead (3 initials I think.)

    Now MJ may have been the one that was going to pay him when they were off through the holidays but the contract was with AEG and MJ had to consent to the amount and sign off on it as a third party.

    IMO
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

  7. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes View Post
    No, Thunder, AEG was going to be paying him. Remember he even called them back and told them not to make the payments directly to him but he gave him a company name instead (3 initials I think.)

    Now MJ may have been the one that was going to pay him when they were off through the holidays but the contract was with AEG and MJ had to consent to the amount and sign off on it as a third party.

    IMO
    Thank you. That must of been what I was recalling, the off time through the holidays. The whole thing is still confusing as to why they did it that way.

  8. #338
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    Thanks Borndem!

  9. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    I am not a Dr. But I believe if you are infused with high amounts of drugs some could end up in your stomach in your body's attempt to flush the drugs out of your blood stream. The drugs go through all your organs to clean your blood. Hopefully prosecution will clear this up.
    From what I have heard from the Dr. that said he must have drank propofol to be in the stomach, that was the reason it was there.
    When drink something takes a while to get in your blood stream, then it goes through the digestive system. When the medication is administered through an IV it goes directly into the blood stream.
    Maybe the procecution will clear up how the propofol got in the stomach.

    This is how medication gets in the blood stream:

    There are five different ways that a drug can make its way into the bloodstream:

    •Pills and capsules - The medicine is absorbed by the stomach lining and the small intestine and enters the bloodstream.
    •Inhalants - The medicine enters the bloodstream through the lungs (in the same way oxygen enters the bloodstream when you breathe).
    •Shots - The medicine is injected into the lymph around the cells, is collected in lymph ducts and makes its way into the bloodstream as the lymph is recycled.
    •Intravenous (IV) - The medicine enters the bloodstream by direct injection into a vein.
    •Suppository - The medicine enters the bloodstream through the lining of the large intestine.
    •Dermal patch - The medicine migrates through the skin and enters the lymph or the bloodstream.
    Pills are probably the most common way to package drugs, and nearly all over-the-counter medicines come this way. In order for a drug to work as a pill, it needs two features:

    •The drug's molecule must be small enough to make it through the stomach lining or intestinal lining.
    •The drug's molecule must be unaffected by acid in the stomach.

  10. #340
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    Jan 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPfan View Post
    From what I have heard from the Dr. that said he must have drank propofol to be in the stomach, that was the reason it was there.
    When drink something takes a while to get in your blood stream, then it goes through the digestive system. When the medication is administered through an IV it goes directly into the blood stream.
    Maybe the procecution will clear up how the propofol got in the stomach.

    This is how medication gets in the blood stream:

    There are five different ways that a drug can make its way into the bloodstream:

    •Pills and capsules - The medicine is absorbed by the stomach lining and the small intestine and enters the bloodstream.
    •Inhalants - The medicine enters the bloodstream through the lungs (in the same way oxygen enters the bloodstream when you breathe).
    •Shots - The medicine is injected into the lymph around the cells, is collected in lymph ducts and makes its way into the bloodstream as the lymph is recycled.
    •Intravenous (IV) - The medicine enters the bloodstream by direct injection into a vein.
    •Suppository - The medicine enters the bloodstream through the lining of the large intestine.
    •Dermal patch - The medicine migrates through the skin and enters the lymph or the bloodstream.
    Pills are probably the most common way to package drugs, and nearly all over-the-counter medicines come this way. In order for a drug to work as a pill, it needs two features:

    •The drug's molecule must be small enough to make it through the stomach lining or intestinal lining.
    •The drug's molecule must be unaffected by acid in the stomach.
    Propofol is administered intravenously.

    IMO
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina


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