View Poll Results: Which charges do you think the state proved BARD?

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  • Do you think the state proved BARD counts 1 thru 7?

    52 61.90%
  • Do you think the state proved BARD counts 2 thru 7?

    18 21.43%
  • Do you think the state proved BARD counts 3 thru 7?

    3 3.57%
  • Do you think the state proved BARD counts 4 thru 7?

    11 13.10%
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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayouland View Post
    The only thing standing between me thinking felony 1st degree murder and premeditated murder is the Zanny the Nanny story. For some reason, it makes sense to me that a young woman her age (who watches lots of movies) would resort to taping her child up to make it look like a kidnapping and then she followed through with the story for so long. That's why I think chloroform and then the tape and disposal.

    If I am wrong then she is even more evil that I already think she is.
    So are you saying she overdosed her by mistake? Then she was dead and then she taped her? Because pre-meditation can easily lie in the time it took to cut the first piece of tape.

    I guess I don't buy the accidental overdose because it wasn't the first time the name Zanny had been heard. She'd been pretending she had a Nanny for some time...to her friends. To me it was an easy flip for her to make when Lee let her know the OCSD wouldn't just accept the "with the Nanny" story. Suddenly in the blink of an eye, OCA had to come up with a reason why neither the Nanny or Caylee were "available" to go and pick her up.
    When there is Justice - there is Peace.


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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayouland View Post
    The only thing standing between me thinking felony 1st degree murder and premeditated murder is the Zanny the Nanny story. For some reason, it makes sense to me that a young woman her age (who watches lots of movies) would resort to taping her child up to make it look like a kidnapping and then she followed through with the story for so long. That's why I think chloroform and then the tape and disposal.

    If I am wrong then she is even more evil that I already think she is.
    I'm trying to understand here. So you believe that it was second degree murder because the staged kidnapping story fits for you?


  4. #18
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    Casey's lack of remorse shown via her actions directly following the death of the baby is all the premeditation i needed to see. Couple that with her attitude during that jail call and that sealed it for me. Jmo


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  6. #19
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    wonders is offline My opinion's may not alway's be right but they are mine and mine alone.
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    Could someone please tell me what BARD means?
    A grandchild fills a space in your heart that you never knew was empty....


  7. #20
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    TheDevilsAdvocate- up thread where you speak of the chloroform not being proven so not premeditated, premeditation can be in the blink of an eye, or the time it takes to peel a piece of duct tape, cut it and place it on the child's face.

    Certainly premeditation comes with the same process for the second and third piece.

    Premeditation does not have to mean she balanced and weighed her decision and then decided - yes, this is something I am going to do.

    We have all heard it said that premeditation is the time between pointing a gun and squeezing the trigger - in the blink of an eye...
    When there is Justice - there is Peace.


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  9. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by logicalgirl View Post
    So are you saying she overdosed her by mistake? Then she was dead and then she taped her? Because pre-meditation can easily lie in the time it took to cut the first piece of tape.

    I guess I don't buy the accidental overdose because it wasn't the first time the name Zanny had been heard. She'd been pretending she had a Nanny for some time...to her friends. To me it was an easy flip for her to make when Lee let her know the OCSD wouldn't just accept the "with the Nanny" story. Suddenly in the blink of an eye, OCA had to come up with a reason why neither the Nanny or Caylee were "available" to go and pick her up.
    I always felt that she overdosed her by mistake (after doping her up numerous times), taped her and dumped her. Still heinous and 1st degree but no premeditation.

    Do you really think she meets the profile of a premeditated murderer? I just don't know.


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  11. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonders View Post
    Could someone please tell me what BARD means?
    No! LOL - Beyond a reasonable doubt..
    When there is Justice - there is Peace.


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  13. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayouland View Post
    I always felt that she overdosed her by mistake (after doping her up numerous times), taped her and dumped her. Still heinous and 1st degree but no premeditation.

    Do you really think she meets the profile of a premeditated murderer? I just don't know.
    Yes, I do because of the chain of her behaviour. What mother's carries her dead child in the trunk of her car until the smell is overwhelming and then dumps her in a trash swamp.

    She had the opportunity to call 911 even if she had given Caylee too much chloroform - since she lies so well she could have said she had no idea what Caylee had eaten...but no - by your theory her response was duct tape, some garbage bags and into the trunk you go! In my mind there is no room for doubt, not after reviewing the evidence again and again looking for any other possible scenario I could imagine - nothing else worked.
    When there is Justice - there is Peace.


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  15. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by my2sense View Post
    Casey's lack of remorse shown via her actions directly following the death of the baby is all the premeditation i needed to see. Couple that with her attitude during that jail call and that sealed it for me. Jmo
    That's what convinces me. In order for her to have done the staging to make it look like a kidnapping means she would have had to care about what she did. I just don't think she cared. She killed Caylee and left her body in the trunk, only removing it when it smelled too bad. If she was really wanting to stage the kidnapping, why keep Caylee in the car? Why not immediately go dump her somewhere? It just doesn't add up. Casey didn't care enough to go that far to cover herself. It's just not in her to give enough of a crap to be that creative and try to cover up a murder. I think she did really come up with the kidnapping story when her mother pressed her, realizing the ONLY explanation for that duct tape that would work would be that she staged it on purpose. It would be the only explanation her mother would be willing to accept.

    Also, she moved on. She was partying, celebrating her newfound, free life. Forget being a sympathetic victim, she was so over Caylee. It didn't matter anymore. It was moving on and living la Bella Vita for Casey, let her lawyers and parents clean this mess up. How does that fit into staging a kidnapping? She didn't act a thing like a mother whose child was kidnapped, yet the staging a kidnapping story is believable? She didn't beg for her baby back or not once act like a grieving mother even though she staged a kidnapping? I just don't get that. She didn't care enough to really play that story out, and she should have. She should have milked it for all it's worth, and she never did. Why stage a kidnapping and then not sell it? No, instead she shows no remorse and goes partying and lying for thirty one days, then lies some more after that. She didn't even go halfway with a kidnapping after supposedly taping up Caylee's face to stage a kidnapping. It just doesn't add up for me.

    The only thing that makes sense is that she's cold blooded and lazy, and only came up with the story when her mother was right in her face about it. I think had she fled instead of being too lazy to try to get away, we never EVER would have heard the Zanny story. Instead, Cindy backed Casey against the wall, and thus the kidnapping story was born to cover the cold blooded murder of Caylee. Caylee got in the way of Casey's happiness and life, and Casey got rid of her. If that's not coldblooded, I don't know what is.


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  17. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonders View Post
    Could someone please tell me what BARD means?
    Beyond reasonable doubt ?


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  19. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RANCH View Post
    I'm trying to understand here. So you believe that it was second degree murder because the staged kidnapping story fits for you?
    No, absolutely not second degree. 1st degree felony murder.

    FELONY MURDER FIRST DEGREE

    782.04(1)(a), Fla. Stat.

    To prove the crime of First Degree Felony Murder, the State must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

    1. Caylee Marie Anthony is dead.

    2. The death occurred as a consequence of and while Casey Marie Anthony was engaged in the commission of Aggravated Child Abuse.

    Or

    The death occurred as a consequence of and while Casey Marie Anthony was attempting to commit Aggravated Child Abuse. 3. Casey Marie Anthony was the person who actually killed Caylee Marie Anthony.

    In order to convict of First Degree Felony Murder, it is not necessary for the State to prove that the defendant had a premeditated design or intent to kill.


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  21. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrys View Post
    That's what convinces me. In order for her to have done the staging to make it look like a kidnapping means she would have had to care about what she did. I just don't think she cared. She killed Caylee and left her body in the trunk, only removing it when it smelled too bad. If she was really wanting to stage the kidnapping, why keep Caylee in the car? Why not immediately go dump her somewhere? It just doesn't add up. Casey didn't care enough to go that far to cover herself. It's just not in her to give enough of a crap to be that creative and try to cover up a murder. I think she did really come up with the kidnapping story when her mother pressed her, realizing the ONLY explanation for that duct tape that would work would be that she staged it on purpose. It would be the only explanation her mother would be willing to accept.

    And if she was trying to cover it up with a kidnapping, she would have played the grieving mother role a lot better, begging for her baby back, trying to convince people she was a victim. That would have worked better for her story. Instead, she just lied and lied and lied, and then let her lawyers do the talking for her. How was that supposed to work with a kidnapping story? How was anyone supposed to believe her when she never presented herself as a sympathetic victim of a kidnapping? So she staged the kidnapping and only went halfway with it? It doesn't make sense.

    The only thing that makes sense is that she's cold blooded and lazy, and only came up with the story when her mother was right in her face about it. I think had she fled instead of being too lazy to try to get away, we never EVER would have heard the Zanny story. Instead, Cindy backed Casey against the wall, and thus the kidnapping story was born to cover the cold blooded murder of Caylee.
    Actually it was Lee telling her the LE were going to insist she take them immediately to pick up Caylee but same diff - that's when she came up with the kidnapping story. And we know how she can turn on a dime with a lie..
    When there is Justice - there is Peace.


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  23. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayouland View Post
    I always felt that she overdosed her by mistake (after doping her up numerous times), taped her and dumped her. Still heinous and 1st degree but no premeditation.

    Do you really think she meets the profile of a premeditated murderer? I just don't know.
    And in this case we had aggravated child abuse, a felony,along with felony murder and you have first degree murder.

    http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a...st_degree.html


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  25. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayouland View Post
    Well, I could do a flip and ask what of the evidence didn't you believe but that would be kind of snarky and wouldn't be very productive.

    But, to answer your questions.
    1. I believe the evidence that was presented by Dr. Vass.
    2. I do not know where FCA obtained chloroform.
    3. I believe FCA gave Caylee chloroform prior to Caylee's death and that wasn't the first time she gave it to her.
    I believe Dr. Vass proved there was an abnormally high amount of chloroform in the trunk. I didn't hear any scientific explanations, or any explanations for that matter, as to how or why there was a high level of chloroform in the trunk. None of the experts, nor the prosecutors gave any explanation about what the high level of chloroform in the trunk proved. Some say you have to connect the dots at this point. I think there are way too many dots to connect, and nothing but speculation to connect them.

    So, like you, I believe the chloroform evidence presented by Dr. Vass, I just do not know how to connect it to the single search for how to make chloroform on the A's computer.

    I did not see any evidence presented that even suggested that KC was dosing Caylee with chloroform at any time, with the single exception that JA said in closing, "we can only hope that chloroform was used, before the tape, so Caylee didn't suffer."

    Was there some evidence at trial that I missed concerning the chloroform?
    Or, was the single search for how to make chloroform on the A's computer, combined with Dr. Vass's discovery of a shockingly high level of chloroform in the trunk enough to convince you that KC was dosing Caylee with chloroform?

    As always, my entire post is my opinion only.
    The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.-- Gandhi


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  27. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayouland View Post
    No, absolutely not second degree. 1st degree felony murder.

    FELONY MURDER FIRST DEGREE

    782.04(1)(a), Fla. Stat.

    To prove the crime of First Degree Felony Murder, the State must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

    1. Caylee Marie Anthony is dead.

    2. The death occurred as a consequence of and while Casey Marie Anthony was engaged in the commission of Aggravated Child Abuse.

    Or

    The death occurred as a consequence of and while Casey Marie Anthony was attempting to commit Aggravated Child Abuse. 3. Casey Marie Anthony was the person who actually killed Caylee Marie Anthony.

    In order to convict of First Degree Felony Murder, it is not necessary for the State to prove that the defendant had a premeditated design or intent to kill.
    I guess I was a little slow with my post . Thanks.


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