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Thread: MO - AMBER ALERT: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #4

  1. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just-a-Guy View Post
    Very well said, and I agree, most people would not want the government poking into the deep secrets of their private lives. But...saying "No you can't look at my computer disks" will accomplish absolutely nothing, except having an officer stand there while another one goes and gets a warrant. And they will tell you that. And it won't take that long. I don't think that's what's happening here.

    FWIW, I do agree, the woman spokesperson did sound a lot like a lawyer. Quite possibly a relative who happens to be a lawyer. She seemed poised and professional. I can imagine an scenario where if LE have been just a little too much "in their face" and such a person came in, with the confidence of legal training, they might say "You know what, leave us alone and go find the baby. We've told you everything we know for three days. Do your job and leave us alone." I can imagine that. I can also of course imagine many other scenarios. So I am keeping an open mind.

    And going to bed now, like others, hoping to awake to good news.


    ETA: Posting while I was writing, someone ID'd the spokeswoman. Her name is apparently Ashley Irwin.
    I didn't find that name in the Texas Bar site.
    http://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template....orm_client.cfm
    Last edited by bessie; 10-06-2011 at 11:42 PM. Reason: edited quote, name of party not known to be a party in this case

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  3. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by gliving View Post
    I remember just recently Breeann Rodriquez's father was told he failed his polygraph. He was very much innocent.
    I would never take a polygraph.

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  5. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by southern_comfort View Post
    As Lisa's story was surfacing, my mind immediately went back a decade or so to when I was pregnant. Throughout that pregnancy, I participated in an online discussion board on a parenting site. We were arranged in forums by due date. As the months went by, disagreements and fights erupted between hormonal pregnant women (and then hormonal new mommies) about any manner of things that could result in a serious grudge, and a certain percentage of women ended up losing their babies at all stages of pregnancy, from early in the first trimester to stillbirths to SIDS.

    I discovered some things in that time. First, too many people are too free with information. People posted details of their lives, full names of families and children, pictures of their houses and nurseries... everything.

    Second, many people online lie. There were a couple of "tragic" incidents exposed as scams, after people had banded together and collected money and things, and some people's "lives" were completely invented and bogus. You'd think you really knew somebody, because they'd post information and pictures of their lives too -and find out later that nothing they presented was true.

    Third, there are some mentally unhealthy people online and often people don't realize how serious it is until it's too late. At least one of the women who lost a child via stillbirth insisted on continuing with the group as we graduated from being an "Expecting Club" to being a "Playgroup". It was painful to see the ways she tortured herself as others embarked on lives with their new babies. Someone would say, "I got no sleep last night... Little Ralphie cried all night long", and she'd go into hysterics: At least you HAVE a baby to cry!!!!!"

    I can see someone like that taking a baby. I can see her fixating on a certain baby, collecting photographs as they are posted and information about the family and house and daily life (because women on those groups post EVERYTHING!), stalking FB pages... shudder.

    I hope as they are investigating, they look into whether Lisa's mother may have participated in a group like this. The internet can truly be creepy.
    My daughter is in one of these groups. When everyone was about 5 mths along or so it was discovered that one was a fake. We just though the person was wanting attention, never thought of someone doing something evil. Scarey stuff!!

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  7. #629
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    I don't think it was the parents/aunt/family that has changed the story about the phones. It was an interpretation by the REPORTER who was told that "they took the cell phones"....the family doesn't get to proofread the articles to make sure the reporter got it down right. The family meant the person who took the child.....the reporter thought that THEY meant LE from experience with other cases. This kind of thing happens all the time and then one news agency copies the others info and it just goes on from there. The family may have never known the incorrect info was out there or may have simply not known how to or had the energy to try to get that corrected.

    jmo

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  9. #630
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    A woman who identified herself as Ashley Irwin, sister of Jeremy Irwin, read a statement on behalf of her brother and Deborah Bradley, parents of missing infant Lisa Irwin.
    http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/06/justic...-missing-girl/

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  11. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    I'm sorry, lawyer or no lawyer, there is no reason to stop talking to LE if your baby is missing.

    Unless there IS a reason.

    WTH?
    Exactly! ITA.

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  13. #632
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    goodnight everybody..

    my gosh let this baby be found soon alive and well....

    Little baby Lisa... just as precious as a dew drop on a leaf.
    This bee my opinion

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  15. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleuthster View Post
    Mom appears genuinely distraught, dad appears very very nervous like he is about to pop.His eyes keep shifting and he talks like hes not believing what he's saying himself and wants to say something else IMO
    Quote Originally Posted by tiredblondy View Post
    Originally Posted by wfgodot
    @PeterAlexander NBC News
    Peter Alexander
    Irwin family says police told #LisaIrwin's mom she failed lie detector test, but says police offered no evidence.
    44 minutes ago via Twitter

    http://twitter.com/#!/PeterAlexander...32904280211457

    As far as the above info goes, that's putting a lot of pressure on Mom Debbie isn't it from the family by releasing that information???

    Remember it was reported that only the Dad was seen leaving the police station this evening right before it was announced that the parents had stopped cooperating???

    Wonder if that's the plan? Put pressure on Mom???
    I think these two things might go together??
    About the time we can make ends meet, somebody moves the ends. Herbert Hoover

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  17. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by southern_comfort View Post
    Most of us don't live our lives prepared for the possibility that the government is going to come into our homes and look into every nook and cranny, not only physically in our closets and drawers, but also delve into everything we've ever stored on our computers, cell phones, and everywhere else.

    IMO, a very significant percentage of people have things on their computers that they would not like others to see. Maybe they photograph kinky things in the bedroom. Maybe they have an unusual fetish that would raise eyebrows. Maybe they play an online game, like Second Life, and keep logs of their activities as they experiment with things they would never, ever try in real life. There are countless things people do that are not necessarily even illegal, but are very private.

    These are the kinds of intimate things that are, suddenly, no longer intimate when something like this happens. I like to think that every parent of a missing child would throw their doors open and welcome LE to look wherever and whenever they need to... but what if you know you are innocent and that the police rifling through your collection of beast porn is going to do nothing to help find your child, and everything to make LE and the public waste time looking in the wrong direction?

    What do you do then? I don't know. Maybe LE accuses you of not cooperating when you say, "No, you can't look at my computer disks".

    I'm not saying this has happened. I'm just saying.
    IDK... but, beast porn, fetishes, whatever...those things would PALE into insignificance if my child was taken in the night. I would simply not care what other people thought,as long as they were aware of what my child looked like... I would go on national tv and discuss my "private life " with Stone Phillips,Bill O'Reilly, or anyone else if I thought it would keep my child's story out there. Not co-operating with LE would never,ever be one of my options... MOO

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  19. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrye4709 View Post
    Ok, my mind is still spinning. IF the parents wanted to stage a kidnapping, why would they put so much detail that makes it look so odd that people would question it? Why would you say window open, (front)door unlocked, lights on and 3 phones gone? Wouldn't the lights not being on be more convincing? Or, hey the spare key is gone from under the flower pot? You know how people say the truth is stranger than fiction or "you can't make this stuff up". Could it be that someone was so "clever" or evil that they knew the parents would look guilty and no one would believe it could happen this way?

    I know, I know..... I don't want to believe yet another family could hurt their own child or cover up an accidental death. But seriously, this doesn't make sense.
    When I was younger, someone actually did come into my house...I imagine right through the front door as my father had just run to the store to get something and the door was unlocked. My mother was asleep in bed and I was out for the evening. When my father came home he noticed the light on in my bedroom and saw things knocked off my desk. He closed the light and went to bed. It wasn't till I got home and saw the mess did my parents know that I had been robbed. Thank G-d there wasn't a baby sleeping in the room. Thank G-d no one hurt my mother. And yes, to this day I believe it was someone who was known to the family and knew I had cash in my room. The police didn't think it warranted dusting for prints. Just not enough money stolen. Still leaves me shaking my head. So...can this story be true...yup. But, I still smell stink. The missing phones bother me.

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  21. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel View Post
    An unidentified man who later answered the door at the house only said "Thank you" when asked what the family had to say to the people helping to search for their missing child.

    The family of Lisa Irwin's parents in Independence told FOX 4 News that the family has done all they can to help police in the search for their child, and that they don't blame them for not wanting to talk any more to police.

    In a statement to the media earlier in the day, Jeremy Irwin's sister disputed the police claim that the couple had stopped cooperating with detectives.

    "We want the public to know we have never stopped cooperating with police," she said in a prepared statement. She said that the parents plan on releasing a statement on Friday.

    The news comes after police were able to find no new clues into her disappearance, despite word that the girl's parents told police that three cell phones were missing from the home.
    http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lisa...,2371703.story
    bbm.. whhhhaaaaaatttt?????????????

    okay I am going to bed now...
    This bee my opinion

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  23. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by mrye4709 View Post
    My daughter is in one of these groups. When everyone was about 5 mths along or so it was discovered that one was a fake. We just though the person was wanting attention, never thought of someone doing something evil. Scarey stuff!!
    The awful truth is, when you engage in something like that as an honest and naive person, you've suddenly multiplied the number of people who know you and your family by a very large number. But you have no idea who it is that now knows you.

    It is like inviting the boogey man into your home. Bad, bad stuff. I hope your daughter will reconsider, or at least be very careful what she shares.
    If I can stop one heart from breaking,
    I shall not live in vain;
    If I can ease one life the aching,
    Or cool one pain,
    Or help one fainting robin
    Unto his nest again,
    I shall not live in vain.
    ~Emily Dickinson~

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  25. #638
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    Quick question. Which County is this?

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  27. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by southern_comfort View Post
    As Lisa's story was surfacing, my mind immediately went back a decade or so to when I was pregnant. Throughout that pregnancy, I participated in an online discussion board on a parenting site. We were arranged in forums by due date. As the months went by, disagreements and fights erupted between hormonal pregnant women (and then hormonal new mommies) about any manner of things that could result in a serious grudge, and a certain percentage of women ended up losing their babies at all stages of pregnancy, from early in the first trimester to stillbirths to SIDS.

    I discovered some things in that time. First, too many people are too free with information. People posted details of their lives, full names of families and children, pictures of their houses and nurseries... everything.

    Second, many people online lie. There were a couple of "tragic" incidents exposed as scams, after people had banded together and collected money and things, and some people's "lives" were completely invented and bogus. You'd think you really knew somebody, because they'd post information and pictures of their lives too -and find out later that nothing they presented was true.

    Third, there are some mentally unhealthy people online and often people don't realize how serious it is until it's too late. At least one of the women who lost a child via stillbirth insisted on continuing with the group as we graduated from being an "Expecting Club" to being a "Playgroup". It was painful to see the ways she tortured herself as others embarked on lives with their new babies. Someone would say, "I got no sleep last night... Little Ralphie cried all night long", and she'd go into hysterics: At least you HAVE a baby to cry!!!!!"

    I can see someone like that taking a baby. I can see her fixating on a certain baby, collecting photographs as they are posted and information about the family and house and daily life (because women on those groups post EVERYTHING!), stalking FB pages... shudder.

    I hope as they are investigating, they look into whether Lisa's mother may have participated in a group like this. The internet can truly be creepy.
    I think this baby is too old for this scenario IMO. Most cases where someone could not conceive and pretending to be pregnant or had a miscarriage, and later abducted a baby usually take another baby to make up for their loss and usually pic new borns so it is easier to pass off that they just had the baby.

    I also believe that SO's dont usually target babies. That's why the family is always their first person(s) of interest IMO.
    Cindi Lou


    Some people may consider me crazy, I say I'm just inspired.

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  29. #640
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    has anyone seen any pictures of baby Lisa smiling?

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  31. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarrieBean View Post
    Quick question. Which County is this?
    Clay County, I think.

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  33. #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyL View Post
    has anyone seen any pictures of baby Lisa smiling?
    tons of them
    This bee my opinion


  34. #643
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    I think something is going on, things are happening too quickly. Am I the only one??
    About the time we can make ends meet, somebody moves the ends. Herbert Hoover

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  36. #644
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    Quote Originally Posted by southern_comfort View Post
    Most of us don't live our lives prepared for the possibility that the government is going to come into our homes and look into every nook and cranny, not only physically in our closets and drawers, but also delve into everything we've ever stored on our computers, cell phones, and everywhere else.

    IMO, a very significant percentage of people have things on their computers that they would not like others to see. Maybe they photograph kinky things in the bedroom. Maybe they have an unusual fetish that would raise eyebrows. Maybe they play an online game, like Second Life, and keep logs of their activities as they experiment with things they would never, ever try in real life. There are countless things people do that are not necessarily even illegal, but are very private.

    These are the kinds of intimate things that are, suddenly, no longer intimate when something like this happens. I like to think that every parent of a missing child would throw their doors open and welcome LE to look wherever and whenever they need to... but what if you know you are innocent and that the police rifling through your collection of beast porn is going to do nothing to help find your child, and everything to make LE and the public waste time looking in the wrong direction?

    What do you do then? I don't know. Maybe LE accuses you of not cooperating when you say, "No, you can't look at my computer disks".

    I'm not saying this has happened. I'm just saying.
    This is exactly what my DH and I talked about at dinner tonight. I used to share the sentiment that the parents of a missing child should be willing to throw open the shutters and let the light shine clear through their lives, exposing every blemish for the sake of saving a son or daughter. Recently, my views have changed somewhat after witnessing the unfortunate results that have occurred in cases where families exposed themselves. The scrutiny is merciless, and statistically the numbers don't support the notion that transparency assists in the safe recovery of the missing child. In some instances, just the opposite occurs because LE and the public become fixated on the misleading information. By the time the drama dies down and the parents are cleared, the real perpetrator has faded into oblivion, and a child's body lies rotting away in the ground.
    __________________________________
    Muddy water in the street
    ; Muddy water 'round my feet... as sung by the inimitable Bessie Smith, "Muddy Water (A Mississippi Moan)"




  37. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrye4709 View Post
    Ok, my mind is still spinning. IF the parents wanted to stage a kidnapping, why would they put so much detail that makes it look so odd that people would question it? Why would you say window open, (front)door unlocked, lights on and 3 phones gone? Wouldn't the lights not being on be more convincing? Or, hey the spare key is gone from under the flower pot? You know how people say the truth is stranger than fiction or "you can't make this stuff up". Could it be that someone was so "clever" or evil that they knew the parents would look guilty and no one would believe it could happen this way?

    I know, I know..... I don't want to believe yet another family could hurt their own child or cover up an accidental death. But seriously, this doesn't make sense.
    And I hope they are not involved.

    IMO, people that stage crime scenes and add too many details. They are panicked. They watch too much CSI. They want to divert attention from themselves and over compensate trying to move attention away from them, by overdoing the clues.

    And they also have trouble keeping track of their lies, which is where they almost always are caught. And if you have more than one person in on this, then almost always one will rat out the other to save their own skin.

    Why would a kidnapper take the cell phones? IMO, people just don't understand that even if they say they are gone, the police can access the records and find out who was called, when and where the pings are located. Maybe they thought that by telling LE that they were stolen that that would be the end of that. Not the case.

    I sure hope Lisa is found safe and unharmed.

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  39. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiredblondy View Post
    I think something is going on, things are happening too quickly. Am I the only one??
    No, you're not. I'm having a big glass of tea. Something still could be afoot tonight.

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  41. #647
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    Breeann's parents were not angry with LE when they were told they failed the LD; they were confused and continued to speak out and work with LE as well. Even LE indicated that they had no reason to believe that the family was involved, as though they agreed the test had not been a good indicator.

    I think the parents are doing themselves and their baby a great disservice by not being on the same page as LE. Hurt feelings, anger, egos, whatever, are nothing in the long run. If there are truly no clues here, LE will need unlimited access to the parents, to continue to try to prompt memories, etc. anything that might lead to a person who doesn't fit (or rather, who might fit.) If they are BOTH innocent, they need to work this out with LE, and continue to talk, talk, talk, as much and as often as LE wants them to, with their lawyer, if they have one, of course.
    Just my opinion, of course.

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  43. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by liz b. View Post
    IDK... but, beast porn, fetishes, whatever...those things would PALE into insignificance if my child was taken in the night. I would simply not care what other people thought,as long as they were aware of what my child looked like... I would go on national tv and discuss my "private life " with Stone Phillips,Bill O'Reilly, or anyone else if I thought it would keep my child's story out there. Not co-operating with LE would never,ever be one of my options... MOO
    I don't think it would be so much worrying about what others would think, as a sense of precious time being wasted and the possibility that LE would take what they find and use it as another reason to hone in on a parent who knows he or she is innocent while the child is still missing.

    I think we are all aware that when the investigation starts veering in a certain direction, it often makes a full turn. Then later, if it's revealed that the turn was wrong, evidence is gone and clues have evaporated and the child is gone forever. I want to say that I would do everything and anything LE asked of me, but I think I can see myself protesting if I felt this begin to happen. It wouldn't be so much a lack of cooperation, in my mind, as a serious disagreement regarding the use of resources, and probably some defensiveness if they started to sound accusatory.

    Oops, Bessie... didn't see what you said until after I posted... I could have just thanked and not said all of this!
    Last edited by southern_comfort; 10-06-2011 at 11:37 PM. Reason: Added last line
    If I can stop one heart from breaking,
    I shall not live in vain;
    If I can ease one life the aching,
    Or cool one pain,
    Or help one fainting robin
    Unto his nest again,
    I shall not live in vain.
    ~Emily Dickinson~

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  45. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiredblondy View Post
    Kinda like all the THUDs from Kyron's initial days???


    Well if the aunt was told that LE took the phones and then today it came out that the phones were taken when Lisa was- that would be contradictory. Of course, the aunt could have been mistaken.

    I keep going back to the one part I was concerned about in the interview today.

    Just a reminder, remember Jessica Lunsford's grandmother failed the Lie Detector too bless her heart. Didn't mean a thing.
    Yeah, I don't place a lot of stock in her supposedly failing a lie detector test. First, LE has been known to lie about that to gauge reactions and try to get more information. Also, she just doesn't know where her child is, if she's not involved, and that could cause anyone's readings to be wonky.
    WHAT IF THE HOKEY POKEY IS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT?

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  47. #650
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    about the hiring of the LAWYER

    Quote Originally Posted by nursebeeme View Post
    I have yet to find any msm confirmation that the family has a lawyer
    Here is a VIDEO from live streaming (hours ago), which I heard when it was "live" .... at the very end of it, the reporter mentions the couple hiring a lawyer.
    (sad that some people here implied that I was making this up)




    http://www.fox4kc.com/videobeta/1276...er-Cooperating
    Last edited by Hazel; 10-06-2011 at 11:47 PM.
    My posts are merely my humble opinion. Unless you are quoting within Websleuths Forums, you do not have my permission to copy nor use any post made by me for anything.
    ★ Thank you ★

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