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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspctrgadget View Post
    .....
    What I found that was VERY interesting is that after the bikers go to the Oak Beach parking lot, it seems that they head over to The Maples in Manorville. The Maples is a bar located right around the corner from Halsey Manor Road, where Jessica Taylor was found. Interestingly, The Maples used to be a brothel.

    This connection between the GB4 dump site and Manorville seems meaningful to me, even though the COD is radically different.

    Here's some links to my research:

    http://www.hdforums.com/forum/genera...oceanside.html

    http://themanorvillemural.com/The%20Maples.htm

    http://www.lidragracing.com/showthre...to-a-BAD-Light

    Link to the GB4 map:
    http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...83c01d&t=h&z=9
    Really interesting.... I just can't help but think at least Jessica Taylor is connected to the GB4. I keep going back to her tattoo of "Remy's Angel". Someone, somewhere has to be able to connect these dots.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda View Post
    Good find, NJGuy!!! Hmmm! Sounds like someone is talking about the other's stuff to save his butt, doesn't it? The foot fetish thing may also apply to the LI feet that washed up with partially painted toenails too!

    This should be posted on the AC victims thread also. MOO.

    I try and post it there a bit later if noone else has the time to do so. REal life is interfering with my sleuth time.

    wm
    I have been saying for some time now that my gut instinct tells me that our SK has lots of ties to CT and some of the unsolved murders/disbursements in that state.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by goathairjones View Post
    Inspector,

    Sorry but I just don't see this happening. I attend those Sunday morning car shows on a regular basis. And none of those car enthusiasts are taking their prized possessions over the center median where the GB4 were found!

    They all use the paved u-turns. There's enough tickets being handed out down there just for missing front plates and show-boating. None of these guys would risk a ticket and risk getting stuck in the center median just to turn around.

    Just so you know, the Town of Babylon hosts concerts in the summer at Cedar and Overlook beach. And the crowds can get pretty big if they get the right band to play (Big Shot Billy Joel Tribute Band, etc.) and cars park all over the center median for those events. So I wouldn't read too much into the car tracks on the center median. Probably has nothing to do with the case.

    You can be sure that the SK is following all the traffic rules when he makes his dumps. He learned a lesson from Joel Rifkin. Follow the traffic rules and check your vehicle for minor infractions before you go on the road. I am sure that he does both.
    Inspector I agree with Goathair regarding how well the car collector buffs treat their vehicles with tlc and wouldn't ever imagine driving one of them over the grass.

    On another note, I do believe there may be some noteworthy substance to your find regarding the possible Manorville connection with the biker bar.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley123 View Post
    I just wanted to share this...Its a blog from the poster "Jim Jones" from the Long Island Serial Killer Website. I believe he is unrelated to the victims, but like us and so many others, he has become entwined in this case, and he has direct contact with SG's family. He describes a trip he, SG's mother and a couple others took to OB where they encountered CPH and his fam...pretty interesting stuff and it confirms a bunch of things we were previously not 100% about, i.e. the leg, his daughter's home and job, his phone conversations, etc. Worth the read.

    http://jjfieldnotes.blogspot.com/
    From his blog about the meeting with GC, Jim Jones quotes GC as saying this;

    “And then all of a sudden,” he continues, “out she came and went around that house,” he says, pointing to the house directly across from his by the gate.”

    “Around that house right there?” I say, pointing.

    “Yeah.”

    “Toward Anchor Way. That house right there?” I ask.

    “Yeah but that house wasn’t there then. There was a little bungalow,” he says.
    It's been theorized in some of our earlier discussions that SG's body possibly never left the grounds of Oak Beach Association.

    If a house was constructed where a little bungalow once stood, could SG's body simply be buried within the concrete foundation of that new house?

    (it surely would not be the first time that a body was disposed of in this manor).

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley123 View Post
    I just wanted to share this...Its a blog from the poster "Jim Jones" from the Long Island Serial Killer Website. I believe he is unrelated to the victims, but like us and so many others, he has become entwined in this case, and he has direct contact with SG's family. He describes a trip he, SG's mother and a couple others took to OB where they encountered CPH and his fam...pretty interesting stuff and it confirms a bunch of things we were previously not 100% about, i.e. the leg, his daughter's home and job, his phone conversations, etc. Worth the read.

    http://jjfieldnotes.blogspot.com/
    This guy's blogs contain a goldmine of information. Just the other day I suggested that if the SK had access to a boat he could easily have dumped bodies on any of the dozens of deserted islands that scatter the bay both to the East and the West of the Robert Moses Causeway. And here we have GC being quoted as saying how this is where SG's body most likely rests;

    “Well, don’t you think the body would have washed up eventually?” asks Sandy.

    “Sure. If it was an incoming tide that morning. There’s gotta be 35-40 little islands between here and Patchogue. No inhabitants on any one of ‘em. She coulda washed up on one she’d be there forever. And that’s more than likely where she is.”

  6. #51
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    In regard to the U-turns...
    I haven't studied the area on a map, but there is such a turnaround place near me. It is because of what is basically a "half" exit. You can only get "off" if heading east on the parkway, and can only get "on" if you're heading east.
    Thus, if you want to go east on the parkway, you have to first go west and turn around at the first "Emergency Vehicles Only" place through the median.

    Again, I don't know the area, but this could be one way someone would know about the area mentioned. But if locals use this place as a turnaround, they probably know that there are other people that use it and could discover the body.
    The killer would probably know it as "an overgrown stretch," rather than actively using the turnoff. Maybe if they knew it was a turnaround that was used fairly often, they would have found a better dumping spot.

  7. #52
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    What I was getting at was this.

    A person who commutes down the parkway would have a "casual" relationship with that area. They would drive down it often enough to see it as an overgrown area, which could be a good dump site.

    If it were a local, they would know this area had people turning around there frequently, so they would not dump a body there if they were trying to hide it well.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda View Post
    HI PB! At one time you referred to this killer as a sadist, IIRC. Do you think he is a sadist or a sexual sadist? Or is there a difference? I ask because I've had the same feeling that this unusual person who is killing our girls is a sadist who may film his terrorist acts and dirty deeds against these women.

    Yesterday a fellow sleuth started a thread in the crimes forum about this sick you know what whose case has been re-opened in NM. He is dead now so this is in no way connected to our LI case but the case has been reopened as he is now suspected for up to 40 murders in NM.

    I found some parallels to dicussions and possibilities we have had on this forum, ie., possibly more than one person, possibly connected to LE or state parks, (or pretending to be a lawman by flashing a badge), possible connection to medical field or access to medical supplies/drugs, possible same dump site for all victims, at least one of his victims was a prostitute, another was picked up from a bar.

    I would appreciate yours or anyone elses thoughts regarding the Li sk being a sadist like this dude or perhaps a copycat. Are there any other commonalities that I missed. Please fee;l free to point out. Thanks all!

    Here's a link....

    GRAPHIC DETAILS!

    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/s...y/1_index.html

    BTW,
    At least his middle name is not Wayne!

    wm

    BTW Welcome back reannan!
    This whole account was soooo disturbing! I can't believe how many breaks this guy got! And I also can't believe that they never found any bodies in connection with him, that is insane! Its so crazy how so many people were involved and connected to him and it took that long for him to be apprehended and for many of them to come forward with details. I can't help but wonder if the prostitute murders that occurred between 2001 and 2006 in Albuquerque were somehow related to him, maybe committed by one of his accomplices that was never apprehended???

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspctrgadget View Post

    My point is, I believe that the SK may have made frequent similar illegal u-turns in the past in this exact area, or for some other reason knew this stretch of the parkway extremely well prior to selecting this particular area as the dump site.
    I also highly doubt this guy would risk a minor traffic infraction that could link him to the dump site...also, any CSI buff would know that a criminal has to be careful not to leave tracks of any kind lying around...

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sillybilly View Post
    I guess this should be in the AC victims thread, but ... reading the above Jones field notes made me re-think the no shoes/facing east aspect:

    This might have no other significance other than it was a practical thing to do ... shoes removed so they couldn't run easily, then after they were strangled, asphyxiated, etc, their bodies were placed face down in that watery ditch to ensure they did not revive, thus the placement for that specific purpose would naturally result in them facing east.
    If you place a body in a ditch going from North to South and don't care where the head falls, you have 50% chance for the head to face East and the other 50% for the head to face West. No way, all four would look eastward without intentional staging. And whenever staging of bodies is involved, it's time to see the whole of it, not just part by part. This is an adaption of a certain form of burial ritual, only political correctness and forum rules don't allow to mention, which one.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!


  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspctrgadget View Post
    OK, so I've been looking at the map of the GB4 dump site. Something sticks out. Based on my gut feeling, the SK would need to know this particular stretch of the parkway REALLY well. Better, I'd say, than even an Oak Beach, Gilgo or Tobay resident. It's at a point in the road where there's a wide median with overgrowth, which would prevent someone traveling in the opposite direction (east) from seeing the SK's car as he pulled over and disposed of the bodies.

    What I noticed is that looking at Bing maps where the GB4 were found, you can see tire treads where cars have made illegal U-turns across the grassy median.

    This got me thinking.

    These tire treads can be seen both on the east and the west, meaning that there are reasons why someone would illegally turn around and go west, and reasons why someone would illegally turn around and go east. That is, assuming that these tire marks are not the tracks of LE vehicles as part of the GB4 recovery efforts, which is definitely a possibility.

    My point is, I believe that the SK may have made frequent similar illegal u-turns in the past in this exact area, or for some other reason knew this stretch of the parkway extremely well prior to selecting this particular area as the dump site.

    What are the reasons why someone traveling east would make an illegal u-turn over a grassy median? I can't figure out any great reasons, since there's an area to make a legal u-turn just west of these grassy areas. Perhaps if someone missed the legal u-turn, and didn't want to go all the way down past Cedar Beach to make the next legal u-turn, they might make that u-turn illegally over the grassy median. But that event might happen once or twice, and doesn't get to my point that the SK knew this particular stretch of road intimately.

    Why would someone traveling from the west to the east make an illegal u-turn over the grassy medians in the immediate GB4 vicinity? Again, I can't think of a reason, since there's a paved area where you can make a u-turn just a few moments past the grassy median (albeit this u-turn would be illegal since the u-turn is meant for eastbound traffic). I'd rather do that than go over grass.

    So, here's my insight. Every Sunday, at 7AM till about 10 or 11AM, there's an informal car show in the Oak Beach parking lot. Corvettes, Porches, Maseratis, Lamborghinis, etc. I also believe that bikers (Harleys, crotch rockets, etc.) and other cars (older muscle cars, etc.) also frequent this event. This is every Sunday when the weather gets to be about 50 degrees or more.

    According to some posters on car bulletin boards, the cops (troopers) show up and hang out at the entrance and hand out tickets for cars with no front license plates. They make sure that cars don't peel out when leaving the Oak Beach parking lot, because it pisses off the neighbors.

    So here's my theory. During the car show, people hop in their cars and take a quick ride down Ocean Parkway, heading west. They nicely pull out in front of the police, and as soon as they get to that specific area of the parkway, between Cedar and Gilgo where the median gets wide and where the GB4 were found, they absolutely FLOOR IT. They probably slow down before the road thins out again, and my guess is that they make an illegal u-turn, over pavement, where that westerly-most u-turn is that's supposed to be used for eastbound traffic.

    After their little drag race, they head back to the Oak Beach parking lot, wave to the police and head back to their parking spot.

    What I found that was VERY interesting is that after the bikers go to the Oak Beach parking lot, it seems that they head over to The Maples in Manorville. The Maples is a bar located right around the corner from Halsey Manor Road, where Jessica Taylor was found. Interestingly, The Maples used to be a brothel.

    This connection between the GB4 dump site and Manorville seems meaningful to me, even though the COD is radically different.

    Here's some links to my research:

    http://www.hdforums.com/forum/genera...oceanside.html

    http://themanorvillemural.com/The%20Maples.htm

    http://www.lidragracing.com/showthre...to-a-BAD-Light

    Link to the GB4 map:
    http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...83c01d&t=h&z=9
    Maybe he took the illegal U-turn, maybe he didn't. We will never find out, because dozens of police cars did after the bodies were found.
    However, the SK probably uses rather an SUV or truck, more likely a truck. It's not that easy to put bodies in a normal trunk and get them out again.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  12. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Seaslug44 View Post
    Inspector I agree with Goathair regarding how well the car collector buffs treat their vehicles with tlc and wouldn't ever imagine driving one of them over the grass.

    On another note, I do believe there may be some noteworthy substance to your find regarding the possible Manorville connection with the biker bar.
    Seaslug, Goathair,

    I agree, a car show enthusiast would never cross the grassy median with a nice car. In my post, I theorized: "They probably slow down before the road thins out again, and my guess is that they make an illegal u-turn, over pavement, where that westerly-most u-turn is that's supposed to be used for eastbound traffic."

    Definitely check out the map to get a better sense of the paved illegal u-turn I'm talking about.

    My bigger point I guess is the possible connection between Manorville and Oak Beach. The theory about the drag racing/speeding isn't that far fetched, whether they made an illegal u-turn (over pavement) or whether they made a legal u-turn past the Gilgo main entrance. The SK was exceedingly familiar with this specific area, evidenced by their ability to return to the exact same spot at least 4 times (assuming that they didn't make the dump all at once, which is doubtful IMO). This would be an area where a westbound motorhead might open up, and the dump site is the area where they would slow down prior to entering Gilgo proper. They might associate this specific area with the idea of "No Police" and feel that it was as good a place as any to dump a body.

    I would assume that this connection could be checked out by police detectives. They could interview the NYPD-based biker gang that was referenced in one of my links that attends both Oak Beach and Manorville on Sundays. They could look at Sunday tickets issued in Oak Beach and splash them against Sunday afternoon credit card receipts at The Maples. The could interview the owners and customers at The Maples, asking about characters that attended the Oak Beach car show and frequented prostitutes.

    I also wonder if Halsey Manor Road is the type of road where you might open up one last time prior to getting to The Maples.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda View Post
    HI PB! At one time you referred to this killer as a sadist, IIRC. Do you think he is a sadist or a sexual sadist? Or is there a difference? I ask because I've had the same feeling that this unusual person who is killing our girls is a sadist who may film his terrorist acts and dirty deeds against these women.

    Yesterday a fellow sleuth started a thread in the crimes forum about this sick you know what whose case has been re-opened in NM. He is dead now so this is in no way connected to our LI case but the case has been reopened as he is now suspected for up to 40 murders in NM.

    I found some parallels to dicussions and possibilities we have had on this forum, ie., possibly more than one person, possibly connected to LE or state parks, (or pretending to be a lawman by flashing a badge), possible connection to medical field or access to medical supplies/drugs, possible same dump site for all victims, at least one of his victims was a prostitute, another was picked up from a bar.

    I would appreciate yours or anyone elses thoughts regarding the Li sk being a sadist like this dude or perhaps a copycat. Are there any other commonalities that I missed. Please fee;l free to point out. Thanks all!

    Here's a link....

    GRAPHIC DETAILS!

    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/s...y/1_index.html

    BTW,
    At least his middle name is not Wayne!

    wm

    BTW Welcome back reannan!
    Hi,

    sadist=sexual sadist. There is no way, someone is a sadist outside of the bed and not inside. And about the other question: I can imagine, the Manorville killer may takes movies. I'm not so sure about AC and LISK2. With NM you mean this Albuquerque guy who dropped about twenty in the body near a new built neighborhood? My original profile of LISK2 was based on the timeline and the a little unusual victimology. However, this also includes the strong possibility of ethnicity and therefore I am not allowed to post it here. But that would point out maybe another motive than sexual sadism. Manorville on the other side is pretty certainly a sadist. Not sure about the Albuquerque SK, but that's because I didn't follow that case too much. There are just too many SKs out there and I follow also some European cases.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by bflocket View Post
    What I was getting at was this.

    A person who commutes down the parkway would have a "casual" relationship with that area. They would drive down it often enough to see it as an overgrown area, which could be a good dump site.

    If it were a local, they would know this area had people turning around there frequently, so they would not dump a body there if they were trying to hide it well.
    This brings me to the question, when was the last bigger building activity at Oak Beach? Construction workers working on building there for some weeks would be also some kind of people knowing a place a little more than casually but not as good as locals.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Brendt View Post
    Hi,

    sadist=sexual sadist. There is no way, someone is a sadist outside of the bed and not inside. And about the other question: I can imagine, the Manorville killer may takes movies. I'm not so sure about AC and LISK2. With NM you mean this Albuquerque guy who dropped about twenty in the body near a new built neighborhood? My original profile of LISK2 was based on the timeline and the a little unusual victimology. However, this also includes the strong possibility of ethnicity and therefore I am not allowed to post it here. But that would point out maybe another motive than sexual sadism. Manorville on the other side is pretty certainly a sadist. Not sure about the Albuquerque SK, but that's because I didn't follow that case too much. There are just too many SKs out there and I follow also some European cases.
    Thanks for responding, PB. The NM sadist in the link I provided is a different perp from the one who buried the bodies of prostitutes in the NM desert. The sadist died in prison while the SK who buried the bodies hasn't yet been caught. The case of the sadist has been reopened due to his writings recently found where he claims at least 40 bodies. Hope this helps clarify.

    I agree with you about the manorville killer being a sadist due to the dismemberment of the victims. I just wonder if the GB4 killer had to change his MO in these 4 Gilgo burlap murders due to some kind of life change which required him to be more stealth in his disposal methods.

    On another note..
    WRT the illegal turn arounds on OP....it wouldn't raise suspicion for a truck or SUV to do so if it were an official vehicle that had a reason to be there. I can't recall the sleuth who discovered that the victims were all found on or very near State park land. This little nugget bothers me as it could be an important clue.

    We have some talented sleuths on this forum and I appreciate all of your input!

    MOO

    wm
    ...and be sure your sin will find you out.

    Numbers,32:23

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