1323 users online (256 members and 1067 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 5 of 60 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 15 55 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 887
  1. #61
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Most of the time in the Midwest
    Posts
    2,248
    Quote Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda View Post
    Thanks for responding, PB. The NM sadist in the link I provided is a different perp from the one who buried the bodies of prostitutes in the NM desert. The sadist died in prison while the SK who buried the bodies hasn't yet been caught. The case of the sadist has been reopened due to his writings recently found where he claims at least 40 bodies. Hope this helps clarify.

    I agree with you about the manorville killer being a sadist due to the dismemberment of the victims. I just wonder if the GB4 killer had to change his MO in these 4 Gilgo burlap murders due to some kind of life change which required him to be more stealth in his disposal methods.

    On another note..
    WRT the illegal turn arounds on OP....it wouldn't raise suspicion for a truck or SUV to do so if it were an official vehicle that had a reason to be there. I can't recall the sleuth who discovered that the victims were all found on or very near State park land. This little nugget bothers me as it could be an important clue.

    We have some talented sleuths on this forum and I appreciate all of your input!

    MOO

    wm
    Got it, the Toy Box Killer. Somehow, I didn't bring in my brain, Elephant Bull is NM ... maybe more coffee helps.
    This example is a bit limping (can I say that in English?). Parker worked with his wife ro girl firned, if I remember right (I hadn't time to read the full article, so I do this from the top of my head).
    Kill couples are a special dynamics. There were in fact a number of them around over the decades. Regularly, you would find the male part (or in homosexual kill couples the part with the more male attitude) doing the abduction work and, for technical reasons also the raping. But it is quite often, the female part ordering to do him so. The story, that the women just run with it to avoid the attraction of his rage on themselves is statistically just a rumor, the relationship between sexually bound kill teams is much more complex. In the forties, the Lonely-Hearts Killers were on the prowl. Of course, later, she would claim, she was only a victim and going out with a lesser sentence, but all points out, she was in control and used him as tool. Similar with the Bears in the late 60s/early 70s. England had such a couple as well, Ian Bradley and Myra Hindley, who committed the Moors Murders. That was in the first half of the sixties. Especially with such kill couples, one needs to take a VERY close look at the dynamics because the standard defense is later anyway, the woman was only another victim, regardless, how big her share really had been. The usual "dominant" versus "subdominant" role is in such cases something rather constructed in court than in reality.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    98
    Here is another article about the Petit home invasion trials and Hayes supposed foot fetish. It says that police recovered a collection of women's sneakers that included the dates they were obtained and how they were obtained. So I'm assuming if they are connected to AC, the unsolved CT murders or any of the LI bodies, they will probably know pretty quickly...I intend to follow this angle of this case pretty closely.

    This article is also interesting because it says that Komisarjevsky was abused as a child and the description of the abuse sounds almost exactly like what Hayes used to do to his brother as a child...typically dominant/subdominant pair? Maybe Hayes really was the mastermind behind the rapes and murders...

    sorry, i'm straying off topic, but this type of occurrence is literally my worst nightmare...

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/petit-home-...ry?id=14677053

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    in the moment
    Posts
    6,605
    It is interesting that the female half of these 'kill teams' is perceived as a victim while the actual victims are perceived as willing participants because she was a prostitute or accepted a ride home with a stranger from a bar. Geesh! It's no wonder prostitutes don't come forward with information in these cases.

    OK, I have to finish my ciggie and then do real life stuff but I wanted to link this latest info on John Wayne Gacy because I have questions.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44873615...me_and_courts/

    Gacy, who is remembered as one of history's most bizarre killers largely because of his work as an amateur clown, was convicted of murdering 33 young men, sometimes luring them to his Chicago-area home for sex by impersonating a police officer or promising them construction work. He stabbed one and strangled the others between 1972 and 1978. Most were buried in a crawl space under his home. Four others were dumped in a river.

    Ok I get the clown. That was his public ruse to gain trust of aquaintances, frineds and family.

    I also get his lure. He pretended to be something he wasn't and/or offered help to vulnerable souls.

    But why did he stab only one of his victims while the others were choked?

    Also, for what reason did he dump only four in the river while all the other victims were buried under his home? I find it creepy that he buried his victims right under his home. Do you feel this was for self preservation or because he enjoyed having his victims close by?

    Apologies for all the questions, I am trying to gain insight into the psyche of the Li sk by researching other cases. Although I don't think I will ever understand.

    Thank you for your input!

    wm
    ...and be sure your sin will find you out.

    Numbers,32:23

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    in the moment
    Posts
    6,605
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley123 View Post
    Here is another article about the Petit home invasion trials and Hayes supposed foot fetish. It says that police recovered a collection of women's sneakers that included the dates they were obtained and how they were obtained. So I'm assuming if they are connected to AC, the unsolved CT murders or any of the LI bodies, they will probably know pretty quickly...I intend to follow this angle of this case pretty closely.

    This article is also interesting because it says that Komisarjevsky was abused as a child and the description of the abuse sounds almost exactly like what Hayes used to do to his brother as a child...typically dominant/subdominant pair? Maybe Hayes really was the mastermind behind the rapes and murders...

    sorry, i'm straying off topic, but this type of occurrence is literally my worst nightmare...

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/petit-home-...ry?id=14677053
    Thank you Ashley! And please keep us updated on developments as we need to keep all options in mind. Esp. for the AC victims and the limbs with partially painted toenails found on LI. Information like this can help us either rule out OR make connections to these cases. We should leave no stone unturned, IMO.

    wm
    ...and be sure your sin will find you out.

    Numbers,32:23

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    98
    Quote Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda View Post
    But why did he stab only one of his victims while the others were choked?

    Also, for what reason did he dump only four in the river while all the other victims were buried under his home? I find it creepy that he buried his victims right under his home. Do you feel this was for self preservation or because he enjoyed having his victims close by? wm
    My first thought is maybe one of the victims overpowered him and he used the knife as a last resort...as for the river, maybe that was an earlier M.O., or maybe the crawl space got too crowded??? I'm foggy on a lot of the details, as its been a along time since I looked into this case but those are my gut theories...

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Most of the time in the Midwest
    Posts
    2,248
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley123 View Post
    Here is another article about the Petit home invasion trials and Hayes supposed foot fetish. It says that police recovered a collection of women's sneakers that included the dates they were obtained and how they were obtained. So I'm assuming if they are connected to AC, the unsolved CT murders or any of the LI bodies, they will probably know pretty quickly...I intend to follow this angle of this case pretty closely.

    This article is also interesting because it says that Komisarjevsky was abused as a child and the description of the abuse sounds almost exactly like what Hayes used to do to his brother as a child...typically dominant/subdominant pair? Maybe Hayes really was the mastermind behind the rapes and murders...

    sorry, i'm straying off topic, but this type of occurrence is literally my worst nightmare...

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/petit-home-...ry?id=14677053
    I'm always ready to stray a bit off and speculate, so ...
    Hayes is a shoe fetishist, maybe also a foot fetishist (funny, but that's not necessarily the same). That's out of doubt. The point, where I have doubts is the connection AC and Hayes for the following reasons:
    - the AC victims were stages. From a foot fetishist, I would expect to drop the body and keep the shoes. He has no reason to bother anymore with the body since he got the object of his obsession already. This doesn't exclude additional disorders, of course, but the usual pattern would be fetishist/sadist as secondary obsession/sociopath. The point here is, that this type is mostly driven by the fetish and even the secondary sadism is more like a fetish obsession with an act but real torture behavior. There is no rage as driving factor (therefore sociopath not psychopath). While that fits bigger parts of what Hayes did in the Petit house, it doesn't fit the full body staging in AC.
    - on the other side of things, the AC victims were prostitutes from a technically not too extended redlight district, they were all disposed in ditches running mostly in a North-South direction, face down, head turned to the East. That is full body staging and therefore either a message or connected to the killer's fantasy in toto. In other words, the missing shoes (while the victims were socks) excludes a foot fetishist and makes a shoe fetishist highly unlikely because it is only one of a set of details belonging together.

    I'm not sure, which case are the CT murders, you refer to. There are so many out there. Can you give me a hint? Keep in mind, I am originally European and thus always a little confused with this American love for abbreviations.

    We have to be careful with this abuse stories of Komisarjewsky. Those details basically popped up only during the trial and took more and more exactly the shape that would fit the "common knowledge" of kill teams. So there is a good chance, this abuse story or at least the details of it are rather defense tactics than truth. You would need a real sociopath to figure such a game out and Komisarjevsky is in my opinion no sociopath in the first place. But then, most defense lawyers have a pretty sociopathic mindset.
    Admittedly, I hate to go over that bridge of the classic dominant/subdominant kill team. Almost all kill teams, I have studied were of course serial killers (including some ancient kings and their queens who would definitively fit the bill). Over the time, some dozens of such teams came together. And I never could really even find a trace of that classic in their stories and behavioral patterns. Take the Hillside Stranglers as example (I love the well known cases for that purpose). You can without a problem find a hundred books telling you, Angelo Buono was the dominant part, Kenneth Bianchi the subdominant. Common knowledge. Unfortunately, none of these books will explain, why it was Buono, who gave in to another girl hunt even after he had already decided to lay low for a while. If Buono would have been dominant, he wouldn't have given in Bianchi's demands. And in the end, it was Bianchi, who continued killing after he left LA while Buono stopped. So, common knowledge obviously stands here in contradiction to the facts. And even if you turn it around, making Bianchi dominant and Buono subdominant, it doesn't work out, because Buono did much of the torturing and raped the victims first. In fact, Bianchi didn't even rape all of them. So, dominant/subdominant changed for those two all the time and in fact, they were driven by different fantasies even there were similarities. Charles Ng and Leonard Lake, same problem. The one team, that comes a little nearer were Wuornos and Tyria Moore (keep in mind that was a sexually bond team, a kill couple), but even there it was more protective/protected. So, due to my experience, I doubt the dominant/subdominant model also for Hayes and Komisarjevsky. The giveaway here are the rapes. Hayes went for Mrs. Petit, an adult woman. Komisarjesky went for the kids. Hayes killed the mother before burning the house, Komisarjevsky left the girls behind to burn alive. Of course, now, after Hayes got already the death sentence, Komisarjevsky would love to look like a hapless follower, but in the details, he shows at least as much sadism and violence as Hayes.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    491
    Waltzingmatilda im on nook and its a pain to type but there is a book by jason moss called the last victm. He did a thesis for college on sk. He wrote them and had a crazy relationship with gacy through letters and phone calls you might want to read this it is really good. I must tell you that jason wrote this in late 1990's. Why did he commit suicide on 6/6/06? Read the book. We must be careful to never dance with the devil.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Most of the time in the Midwest
    Posts
    2,248
    Quote Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda View Post
    It is interesting that the female half of these 'kill teams' is perceived as a victim while the actual victims are perceived as willing participants because she was a prostitute or accepted a ride home with a stranger from a bar. Geesh! It's no wonder prostitutes don't come forward with information in these cases.

    OK, I have to finish my ciggie and then do real life stuff but I wanted to link this latest info on John Wayne Gacy because I have questions.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44873615...me_and_courts/

    Gacy, who is remembered as one of history's most bizarre killers largely because of his work as an amateur clown, was convicted of murdering 33 young men, sometimes luring them to his Chicago-area home for sex by impersonating a police officer or promising them construction work. He stabbed one and strangled the others between 1972 and 1978. Most were buried in a crawl space under his home. Four others were dumped in a river.

    Ok I get the clown. That was his public ruse to gain trust of aquaintances, frineds and family.

    I also get his lure. He pretended to be something he wasn't and/or offered help to vulnerable souls.

    But why did he stab only one of his victims while the others were choked?

    Also, for what reason did he dump only four in the river while all the other victims were buried under his home? I find it creepy that he buried his victims right under his home. Do you feel this was for self preservation or because he enjoyed having his victims close by?

    Apologies for all the questions, I am trying to gain insight into the psyche of the Li sk by researching other cases. Although I don't think I will ever understand.

    Thank you for your input!

    wm
    Who ordered a Gacy? Oh yeah, right here! Sorry, it's one of those days for me ...
    Gacy stabbed his first victim. He claimed, it was more of a misunderstanding. He had given McCoy a night for the bed and claimed, in the morning McCoy was standing in his bedroom with a knife. He struggled with him and stabbed him in what he thought to be self defense. But when he then came out of the bedroom, he found McCoy had been busy making breakfast, including cutting bread and bacon. Gacy had a scar to prove his story and forensic evidence at least didn't contradict him, but still, nowadays, in hindsight, McCoy is counted as Gacy's first murder victim.
    His victims were mostly buried in the crawlspace under his house (he had also two in the concrete foundation under his BBQ place). But at some point, even with piling victims onto each other, the space was just too crowded to pack more in and so he had to dispose the last four victims in the river.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    98
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Brendt View Post
    - on the other side of things, the AC victims were prostitutes from a technically not too extended redlight district, they were all disposed in ditches running mostly in a North-South direction, face down, head turned to the East. That is full body staging and therefore either a message or connected to the killer's fantasy in toto. In other words, the missing shoes (while the victims were socks) excludes a foot fetishist and makes a shoe fetishist highly unlikely because it is only one of a set of details belonging together.
    to add, maybe i have a sort of outdated "Pretty Woman" view of prostitutes, but I would imagine, out of 4 "streetwalkers" from the streets of AC, they wouldn't all be wearing sneakers...a Craig's list girl can be more casual, because she has already roped in her man, but a streetwalker only has her appearance as her lure...

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    98
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Brendt View Post
    Who ordered a Gacy? Oh yeah, right here! Sorry, it's one of those days for me ...
    Gacy stabbed his first victim. He claimed, it was more of a misunderstanding. He had given McCoy a night for the bed and claimed, in the morning McCoy was standing in his bedroom with a knife. He struggled with him and stabbed him in what he thought to be self defense. But when he then came out of the bedroom, he found McCoy had been busy making breakfast, including cutting bread and bacon. Gacy had a scar to prove his story and forensic evidence at least didn't contradict him, but still, nowadays, in hindsight, McCoy is counted as Gacy's first murder victim.
    His victims were mostly buried in the crawlspace under his house (he had also two in the concrete foundation under his BBQ place). But at some point, even with piling victims onto each other, the space was just too crowded to pack more in and so he had to dispose the last four victims in the river.
    ahh, you see, my intuition was almost spot on...


  11. #71
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Most of the time in the Midwest
    Posts
    2,248
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley123 View Post
    ... but a streetwalker only has her appearance as her lure...
    Shhhh, why don't use most them that? Gosh, I think, one needs really a fetish to like plateau shoes on girls. But hey, maybe that's only a problem with my personal taste
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    in the moment
    Posts
    6,605
    Quote Originally Posted by Sistah Sleuth View Post
    Waltzingmatilda im on nook and its a pain to type but there is a book by jason moss called the last victm. He did a thesis for college on sk. He wrote them and had a crazy relationship with gacy through letters and phone calls you might want to read this it is really good. I must tell you that jason wrote this in late 1990's. Why did he commit suicide on 6/6/06? Read the book. We must be careful to never dance with the devil.
    Thanks so much for the info Sistah Sleuth! I look forward to reading the book. I have hinted to Santa that a kindle or nook would be a nice joint holiday gift.

    wm
    ...and be sure your sin will find you out.

    Numbers,32:23

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    2,283
    Hi all
    Let's remember that where the bodies were dumped, the brush is about 3-5 feet high, so the bodies had to be dumped from "above", i.e. a truck of some sort.

    Also, it is not uncommon to see tire tracks in the grass on that side of the road. People pull over there all the time. Further back east toward the bridge, headed westbound, people pull over to cast for striped bass near the coves. In addition, people sometimes are pulled over with their flashers, or just to pull over.

    It would be impossible for someone to turn around without using the turnaround. I go down to the car show every weekend (almost). We always pull out of the OBI parking lot, head east, and whip back around Westbound at the turnaround.

    I say a prayer every single time I am down there.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    3,913
    what are some of the cases CT? I've done all those drives...White Plains ...Vermont...CT

    it's all pretty accessible, especially if you know your way around, up and down and in and out all those hills and woodsy areas...is there a list?

    super curious.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    3,913
    on staging..

    could it be our killer is simply a neat freak? It doesn't ring true as staging to me, there doesn't seem to be any shock value, simply a neat line to say, trust in knowing these bodies are all my work.

    nothing more, really, except he took the shoes...

    no obscene poses, no items, notes or random markings on the bodies.

    this guy is a tight-rear , neat freak.

Page 5 of 60 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 15 55 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #12
    By Salem in forum LISK CLOSED General Discussion Threads
    Replies: 988
    Last Post: 12-17-2011, 02:48 AM
  2. NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #10
    By Salem in forum LISK CLOSED General Discussion Threads
    Replies: 1458
    Last Post: 10-07-2011, 01:02 AM
  3. NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #9
    By Salem in forum LISK CLOSED General Discussion Threads
    Replies: 776
    Last Post: 06-19-2011, 08:52 PM
  4. NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #7
    By Salem in forum LISK CLOSED General Discussion Threads
    Replies: 950
    Last Post: 04-28-2011, 12:26 PM
  5. NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #5
    By Salem in forum LISK CLOSED General Discussion Threads
    Replies: 968
    Last Post: 04-15-2011, 11:27 PM