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Thread: MO - AMBER ALERT: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #10

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    MO - AMBER ALERT: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #10

    An AMBER Alert was issued for 10-month-old Lisa Irwin on Tuesday, October 4th after she was abducted from her crib during the early morning hours. As of today (Thursday), no suspects have been identified, and the AMBER Alert has been canceled.
    Lisa is 10 months old. She has blue eyes and blonde hair. She is 30 inches tall and weighs between 26 and 30 pounds. Lisa was last seen wearing purple shorts and a purple shirt with white kittens on it.
    Lisa is described as having two bottom teeth, a small bug bite under her left ear, a beauty mark on her right outer thigh and currently has a cold with a cough.

    Anyone with information is asked to call 9-1-1, your local police agency, or the Kansas City TIPS Hotline at 816-474-8477.



    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150555"]Thread #1[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150619"]Thread #2[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150686"]Thread #3[/ame]
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    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150791"]Thread #5[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150814"]Thread #6[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7201544#post7201544"]Thread #7[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150897"]Thread #8[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7205385#post7205385"]Thread #9[/ame]

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oriah View Post
    Does anyone know what they used as a scent article for the dog(s)? Sorry if I missed this somewhere.
    Babies are somewhat unique in tracking and trailing, specifically regarding scent articles used.

    TIA if anyone knows this.
    Hello Oriah, only thing mentioned far as I know MSM is they used tracking dogs. I'm led to believe it wasn't helpful in tracking her and was used on a wednesday. I'm unsure which day/morning she was reported missing.

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    Detectives met with Lisa’s parents, Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, late Saturday afternoon, a development that Young said was crucial.

    “It’s the best thing for everybody in trying to find this child,” Young said. “We couldn’t be happier about it.”

    The couple also consented to additional searches at the house, he said.

    Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/08...#ixzz1aHeuzkQa
    http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/08...baby-lisa.html

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    Please let this be the day that a lead is produced to find little Lisa.


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    I'm very surprised the FBI is not offering a reward.

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    I slept for a few hours and missed 10 pages or something. Is there anything HUGE i missed?

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    This post is a collection of "Do we know that?"s. It seems to me that we are making some conclusions on the basis of assumptions that we don't have confirmed.

    Please can someone refresh my recollection if we do have confirmation of some of these things?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dewey2Me1MoThyme View Post
    If Lisa was 10 months old (having trouble remembering back 35 yrs to when mine were that age) and sleeping in a crib, why the frantic search around the house? It's not like Lisa could get up and wonder off is it?
    I'm not sure she couldn't, she is big for her age if her stats are true and it's been noted that the crib floor was rather high so she might have climbed or fallen IMO, and she's old enough to crawl or walk. One of the brothers could have taken her from the crib as well, or she might have fallen asleep somewhere else and the mom just forgot to tuck her in the crib. Maybe the mom knew none of this happened but the dad wouldn't have if he just came home. So the search makes sense to me.



    Quote Originally Posted by Marah View Post
    If Lisa died in the house wouldn't the cadaver dogs have picked up a scent?
    Do we know that there were cadaver dogs and if we do, do we know they didn't pick up anything?


    Quote Originally Posted by dovebar View Post
    The "how" of any scenario involving the mother is the problem for me.

    Did she leave her two sons while she ran out to the dump?

    Discover that in a big fight or in an overdose, she had killed her daughter, and somehow - no evidence how - contacted her brother to help, and no one saw his car, and the boys slept through everything, and he's flunked a polygraph too?

    I mean, please help out here with what *could* have happened, realistically, in terms of body disposal of this child - if she did NOT drive off with an abductor. I am genuinely interested in people saying what they think could actually have happened. Without a magic carpet or ESP to the brother. Is there a fourth cell phone on which she called him?

    Because I'm just not seeing a scenario in which the dogs wouldn't bark, the kids wouldn't wake up (and tell the cops about it), and the neighbors wouldn't be alerted to a car pulling in and out in the middle of the night.

    I don't see it quite like that. There are some what if's in that IMO. If the dogs not barking are a problem supposing the mother did it it applies to an intruder even more so in my opinion. The dogs would be accustomed to Lisa's mother's scent so they might not feel alarmed. Even so, they might have barked if they sensed any unusual activity, if they're the barking type.

    But just because the mother said so, we can't be sure that the dogs didn't bark. Do we know what the neighbors said about it? Maybe they did but the mother slept through it, because she was dead tired or under medication or maybe she played it down because she knew what the dogs were barking at (her?), or maybe everyone in the neighborhood is so accustomed to the dogs barking at night for whatever reason that they never pay any attention to them any more and don't feel the need to be alarmed.

    The children not waking up is not a problem to me. Some children are very heavy sleepers. My six and nine year olds are very hard to wake up so I wouldn't find it strange that they didn't. And again, IMO, if we think mom can't have done anything because the children didn't wake up we should IMO think an intruder can't have done anything for the same reason. I am not even sure that the children didn't wake up. Maybe they did and that's why the boy was in mom's bed.

    IMO, the neighbors might not think twice about any cars pulling up either. If the father or someone else in the neighborhood had worked nights it might have been a regular occurrence and nothing to bat an eyelid about, and again, some people are heavy sleepers and would not even wake up to a car quietly driving near their home. I can hear cars at night if I'm awake in the kitchen but if I'm in my bedroom at the back yard side I don't hear a thing, particularly if all the bedroom doors are closed. And do we even know what the neighbors said about cars? Maybe someone did hear something.




    Quote Originally Posted by vlpate View Post
    ...wouldn't you think JI and DB would be insisting on knowing about the call that was made from their home at 2:30 am?? I'd be all over them to find out who was calling or being called.....that would be a HUGE clue to who took my baby.............if, of course, I didn't make the call.
    I certainly would. But maybe they've been asked not to talk about the call in public? It doesn't seem like LE wants it made common knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by sorrell skye View Post
    Newborns are swaddled. Typically, 10 month old babies are not swaddled. DB reported putting fresh clothes on Lisa and putting her to sleep with a bottle. There was no mention of swaddling.

    Yes but what you put a baby to sleep with and what people secretly carry them away from the home in might be two different things.


    Quote Originally Posted by liltexans View Post
    I'm with you. I can't figure out how mom would have gotten rid of Lisa without waking one or both of her sons and without leaving a trace of evidence behind.
    Your children must be light sleepers. I have been able to do quite a few things without waking my children up. Do we know that a trace of evidence wasn't left behind? Maybe that's why they said they suspect her.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxson View Post
    The lights being on are what bother me the most. I don;t know why an intruder would turn them on if he knew people were sleeping in the house, but I don't know why the father would point out they were on when he came home if the parents had anything to do with it. That's not something you would put in a 'story' about an abduction. I also don't see the mother running in to jump in bed when dad drives up and not having time to shut off the lights. Why would they be on unless she was cleaning up evidence? If she was still cleaning up evidence then LE would have found evidence of midnight cleaning.
    Do we know that they didn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by norest4thewicked View Post
    I meant mothers who ACCIDENTALLY killed their kids or another child killed the child. I mean any that we know it happened this way because they confessed afterwards. I know that a lot of people have said it. What I am getting at is how common is this? I know I am speaking for myself of logical mind, but if my child was accidentally killed, died of an overdose, etc. I would be so distraught that I wouldn't be of sound mind to stage a plan. Also, wouldn't most realize that they are going to get a lot less scrutiny if they came forward right away than if they took their baby out and dumped it somewhere? These are questions that baffle me...
    IDK, even if the mother confesses to accidentally killing her child after trying to get away with an abduction story I tend to be sceptical. Was it really accidental or is it just another lie? But I don't necessarily think that one has to be of sound mind to stage a plan that appears to be hinky to a number of people, including LE. I suppose it's possible but if someone was of sound mind and concocted a brilliant plan to cover for the accident we wouldn't know about it since we'd think the intruder did it.

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  13. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ~n/t~ View Post
    I'm very surprised the FBI is not offering a reward.
    I think they aren't offering a reward because they basically "know" what happened. They're just collecting more data to prove their case.


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    Quote Originally Posted by abstr View Post
    I slept for a few hours and missed 10 pages or something. Is there anything HUGE i missed?
    So far in reading back I don't see anything big...
    “Peace is not the product of terror or fear. Peace is not the silence of cemeteries. Peace is not the silent result of violent repression. Peace is the generous, tranquil contribution of all to the good of all." -Abp Oscar Romero

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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyPirate View Post
    I think they aren't offering a reward because they basically "know" what happened. They're just collecting more data to prove their case.
    They may but until they have a suspect, I don't see why they can't do a parallel investigation. Who knows. Maybe someone will TALK.

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    Was a reward offered in Aliayah Lunsford case? I check there for updates but haven't seen a reward in that case either.

    hmmmm

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    Hi Sleuthers

    I saw a video link to info about the mother's past, but I got distracted, lost it and can't seem to track it down again.

    Anyone have it handy?

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    O/T this is in reference to cell phones, I know this phone had an open line, but this is fast tracking were a call is coming from.


    http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2011/...ring-burglary/

    Dispatchers pinged the call, got the address and sent a police officer to the scene.

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    The window-

    When I was busy caring for little ones my hands were always full when leaving the house and returning. Quite often, I accidentally locked myself out of the house or car. I had a favorite window I used to get back inside without having to call my hubby to bring me his keys. I wonder if the window that had the screen pushed in was big enough for a six or nine year old child to go through if he had a boost from Mom? It is much easier to send a child through the window so they can unlock ther door. I wonder if Mom went somewhere in a hurry that night? It wouldn't be hard to hide the baby in a laundry basket or duffel bag. (Sorry!)

    Another possibility is that the dog might have heard a commotion inside and tried to get in through the screen if he is tall enough to reach it with his paws. Labs can be pretty large.
    Last edited by grandmaj; 10-09-2011 at 09:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonFlwr View Post
    Hi Sleuthers

    I saw a video link to info about the mother's past, but I got distracted, lost it and can't seem to track it down again.

    Anyone have it handy?
    http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-brad...,1316565.story

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  28. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ~n/t~ View Post
    I'm very surprised the FBI is not offering a reward.
    I'm very surprised the FBI still doesn't have Lisa listed as kidnapped/abducted. I keep checking every day, but... nothing:

    http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/@@wanted-group-listing

    So, it doesn't surprise me they're not offering a reward.

    Is any LE agency or Crime Stoppers or anything offering a reward yet?


  29. #17
    Clayton_Sandell Clayton Sandell
    Busy AM in baby Lisa Irwin's neighborhood. 6 live trucks so far. Everyone hoping for new leads. yfrog.com/h0j7xfmj
    16 minutes ago

    Clayton Sandell
    @Clayton_Sandell Denver, CO
    ABC News Digital Correspondent based in Denver Colorado.
    http://twitter.com/#!/clayton_sandell


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    Good morning everyone! Happy Sunday.

    Praying today is the day Lisa is found safe!!


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    A reward fund is being set up in hopes of generating new leads in the disppearance of 10-month-old Lisa Irwin while her parents are cooperating again with investigators, officials said.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-bab...ry?id=14698959
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. ~ Aristotle

    The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
    I'm very surprised the FBI still doesn't have Lisa listed as kidnapped/abducted. I keep checking every day, but... nothing:

    http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/@@wanted-group-listing

    So, it doesn't surprise me they're not offering a reward.

    Is any LE agency or Crime Stoppers or anything offering a reward yet?
    I haven't seen one yet. IIRC, the family said they were going to offer a reward. Weren't they going to sell tshirts? I thought something along those lines was posted yesterday. I'll check FB to see if anything is being planned. BRB

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    Family photos.

    Not sure if this was posted already

    http://www.kmbc.com/r-slideshow/29423242/detail.html

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  38. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGIRecovered View Post
    Unless I've missed something, Lisa's mom's mother; (the grandma from the porch interview early on), has not been talking to media since that interview, has she?

    At one point Mom said that her mother could have left the front door unlocked when she left on the night Lisa went missing. I'd like to know how long Grandma was there and what time she left. Was it after Dad went to work? Has her vehicle been searched for forensic evidence? Did Grandma stay home with the kids while Mom ran an errand?


    The window-

    When I was busy caring for little ones my hands were always full when leaving the house and returning. Quite often, I accidentally locked myself out of the house or car. I had a favorite window I used to get back inside without having to call my hubby to bring me his keys. I wonder if the window that had the screen pushed in was big enough for a six or nine year old child to go through if he had a boost from Mom? It is much easier to send a child through the window so they can unlock ther door. I wonder if Mom went somewhere in a hurry that night? It wouldn't be hard to hide the baby in a laundry basket or duffel bag. (Sorry!)

    Another possibility is that the dog might have heard a commotion inside and tried to get in through the screen if he is tall enough to reach it with his paws. Labs can be pretty large.



    There was a garage code key pad (if we are to believe the teen neighbor info) so locking oneself out most likely was not too much of a problem. Much easier to open the garage from the key pad, and enter the house from there, even if it was with a key hidden in the garage somewhere, than to damage a screen and shove a child through.

    The dog was in a fenced area of the back yard, the window screen in question was on the front of the house, and the description of him was a SMALL black lab mix as per posted info.

    I have missed a LOT of info here as I am not a "full time" reader, but these small bits I did read about a few times. Hope that helps.

    jmo
    Last edited by grandmaj; 10-09-2011 at 09:29 AM.

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    One is being set up apparently but nothing official yet or an amount given.

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    http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-brad...,1316565.story

    What checkered past...this sounds like a good, loving mother.....the ex family speak very well about her!
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
    John Stuart Mill
    English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)


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