10-18-2011, 05:07 AM #1Registered User
- Join Date
- Aug 2004
Post your theory-****NO DISCUSSION****
I'm going out on a limb here, but does anyone think it's possible that Lisa's Mother sold her to someone? (either with or without her husband's knowledge)
We have a beautiful 10 month old baby, and many, many people who would love to have one.
We also have a family with 2 older children, and seemingly not a lot of money.
I heard in the report that they hadn't even paid their cell phone bill, so the phone had been shut off.
Perhaps she (or both) decided to sell baby Lisa, and thought they could pull it off....but then, something happened that caused them to reconsider or just have a melt down. (thus the *allegedly* fake 911 call and staging to look like a kidnapping.)
This was the first thought I had as soon as I'd heard about this case.
I hope Baby Lisa is safe and sound with people who care for her....since the other options are FAR worse!Justice for Jonbenet!
10-18-2011, 07:40 AM #2
Personal opinion...someone took the baby who thinks she would be better off with a different family.... maybe the neighbor she was drinking with or someone related to someone in the neighborhood who desperately wants a baby girl. Something along those lines...it's just TOO COINCIDENTAL that this was the first and only time the dad was working that shift!!! I would concentrate on WHO KNEW that...maybe one of this work buddies who knows the family well enough to know that DB has a drinking problem and also as a wife/sister/etc that can't have a baby??
I am just not sure DB did something to little Lisa deliberately. Her grief seems genuine to me.
10-18-2011, 11:03 AM #3Former Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
OK you can post your theory here. This is a no discussion thread. Which means you have an opportunity to post your theory, but just like the other no discussion threads this isn't a thread for discussion back and forth.
Theory Only, no rumors from FB or blogs.
10-18-2011, 11:26 AM #4
Debbie knows that Jeremy is going to be away from the house all night, and seizes the opportunity to get trashed with the neighbor. She puts Lisa down early at 6:40 to get her out of the way. She parks the 2 boys and the neighbor's 4 year old in the boys room in front of a video, and then Debbie and the neighbor take the party out to the porch. After getting alittle tipsy, the neighbor collects her daughter and leaves. Debbie has alittle trouble getting the boys out of her hair, so she separates them...putting one of the boys in her bed for the night. Debbie them goes into the "2nd living" and parties by herself. She's smoking something in here, so she opens the window. Perhaps this is related to the "clicking sounds" the boys allegedly heard (lighter?). At some point, Debbie realizes she needs to call it a night...she goes to close the window, falls into it, messes up the screen and can't fix it. Whew boy...too wasted to fix that or turn off the lights...gotta lay down.
Some time after laying down (or maybe before she passes out cold), she hears Lisa through the baby monitor...she stumbles in, picks up the baby...something bad happens. (Not elaborating on that thought).
Jeremy comes home around 2 am (my theory based on something he said in an interview), finds Debbie out cold and Lisa...(not elaborating here either). He shakes Debbie awake...the cover up ensues.
Last edited by Mountain_Kat; 10-18-2011 at 12:21 PM.People seldom do what they believe in. They do what is convenient, then repent. ~ Bob Dylan
10-18-2011, 11:40 AM #5Registered User
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
My theory is that Lisa was sick and cranky, DB wanted to have a good time, gave her either adult medicine or too much children's medicine. Freaks and instead of calling 911, decides to cover up what hapepend.
10-18-2011, 11:42 AM #6Registered User
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
I have so many theories, lol.
My current theory is:
Dad went to work. Mom invited neighbor friend to come over for adult time. They drank the box of wine while the kids watched movies. Lisa was put to bed before 7pm, and when she wouldn't go down (mom checked her and she was standing in the crib), mom and friend gave her something to make her sleep (cold medicine, Benadryl, prescription med, alcohol, whatever). DB doesn't check on Lisa again after that because she's quiet. DB and friend get plastered, friend leaves with her 4 year old around 10:30pm and DB crashes in bed.
She wakes up around 2am with the "swirls" (that's what I call it, lol. Whenever I drink too much, I always wake up with a spinning head a few hours after I went to sleep, for no apparent reason, then I usually just take some aspirin and go back to sleep). Knowing she hadn't checked on Lisa earlier, she checks her and finds her deceased. She gets the neighbor and they stage the cover up because they both fear losing their children over what they've done to Lisa.
I'm not sure which neighbor reported seeing the man with the baby, but if that report came from the same house as the drinking neighbor, it could be part of the cover up. I think the dumpster fire and mystery call involving one of the missing phones is also part of it. I think DB disposed of Lisa while the friend helped dispose of the clothes, phones and helped stage the break in. I've also wondered if the cell phone call was maybe JI calling DB to check on things from work (or to say he's not coming straight home, that he's getting a drink with friends, will be home a bit later or something), and because she couldn't answer she had to 86 the phones to explain why she didn't pick up. Something like that. I think that 2:30am phone activity was the reason DB had to dispose of the cell phones - but that it was an incoming call since the phones were on restricted status.
When the cover up was finished, JI was close to being home so DB jumped back into bed and didn't have time to turn off the lights, so she had to leave them on - I don't think that part was planned. At this point, it's possible that the younger boy woke up from the lights and noise, and she put him in bed with her and waited for JI to come home and discover the staged scene.
This is my theory today. It is likely to change several more times, then back again, lol.
PS - I also think the diapers and backpack found at the abandoned house were part of the staging, though I'm not sure if that was staged on the day Lisa disappeared, or later. Left there to make it look like the kidnapper had stopped there with the baby at some point. Buuuuut...the diapers and backpack did lead me down a different theory trail yesterday, which I'll post in a bit. That's my working theory #2.
10-18-2011, 11:47 AM #7Registered User
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
I think knowing her husband was gone for the night, she decided to get buzzed. The baby goes to sleep early..probably give her some meds for cold to sleep..the boys watching movies, so time for her to destress. She and the neighbor sitting outside on the porch drinking..people notice ..Its late the neighbor gets her daughter and goes home..Shes not ready to go to bed and keeps drinking..This might be her last time to drink for a long time.. She goes inside turns on the lights in the house, bored she gets on her computer the window is open cause its hot in the computer room. Still drinking at the comp..she is falling asleep there or passing out. Drags herself to her bedroom and collapes on the bed..Someone could have been waiting for her sleep..watching her from the computer room window. he pushes his head into the screen trying to peer into the house to make sure everyone was asleep. He waits for a whlie till all is quiet and then trys front door, its unlocked and he inches inside. once there he sees the phones and quickly stuffs them in pockets to sell later while on his way to the babys room. He slowly opens the door and picks up the baby who is soundly asleep from cold meds still. Quickly exits the home..moments later her son wakes up from sounds and goes into moms room afraid. Mom however doesnt notice this or anything else cause of the wine.
10-18-2011, 11:48 AM #8
Debbie has been up dealing with a sick/cranky baby previous nights. This night, dad out of the house...time to party. Give Lisa some cold meds and put her to bed early. Maybe an extra dose to keep her quiet. Some time later, Lisa still awake so mom gives her more meds. Mom parties with neighbor and much later when neighbor goes home mom discovers Lisa is not breathing. I don't believe the neighbor would help cover this up, but I do believe dad might. I would change my opinion based on video proof that dad was at work specifically between 2am and 4am but I haven't seen that. I think she could have called dad home in a panic. LE would have cell phone records to indicate a call from mom to dad though, and I haven't heard either way on that. Accidental overdose by mom/cover-up by mom and dad are what makes the most sense to me considering all known facts. I realize there are things we are not being told though, which could make this theory imlausible.
10-18-2011, 11:54 AM #9
I didnt read any other threads because I didnt want to get the urge to comment..
I have 2 theories on this. With all the info we now have up until yesterday.. First.
I think DB wanted her adult time, a child who is sick is very hard to care for, nevermind trying to have "grown up" time while doing it. I believe that she got upset that Lisa would not sleep and she either took Lisa and shook her to death or she slammed her down in the crib and broke her neck. Sounds horrible, but what child killing isnt. I then believe she left the lights on and the door unlocked because she didnt have a chance to shut them off and lock up before JI came home. She apparently had someone to help her, either helping her in disposing of the body or watching the other kids while she disposed of Lisa herself. I think she staged being drunk as a defense to use and to be able to not only make believe she didnt hear anything but it also would go along with her failing a poly. I could add more to this but you get the idea.
I think DB and JI were tight on money and needed a way to come up with cash. When a child goes missing and money is raised for a reward, this needs to be done in a legal way, a parent or family member cannot keep a hold of that money, no one would know how much is collected which in this case is the case. How much money did they raise on their web site asking for donations and how much money did they collect with the t-shirts that were sold, we dont know. Now you have someone offering a hundred grand for the return of Lisa. What if they thought, hey, we can use her to raise some money, its not like she can talk and tell what happened, so they set the stage for it to look like a kidnapping, dad had an alibi, mom apparently has hers now and Lisa was given to someone that no one knows about and they could trust to eventually come out and say they found this baby abandoned someplace and they collect the reward money and split it with mom and dad. It might have been this was to be done already but the heat is on this family so much that this plan fell through and whoever has Lisa is kind of stuck right now or hopefully didnt dispose of her. we have 4 more hours that need to be made up and if this person was out of state they could have been well gone before the police were called.. I dont know, just my opinions and theories.. I think I go for theory 1 before 2 but both make sense to me.
Now I can read what everyone else wrote.."When we were children, we used to think that when we grew up we would no longer be vulnerable. But to grow up is to accept vulnerability, to be alive is to be vulnerable." ~Madeleine L'Engle
Proud to say.. I have never been on the fence !!
10-18-2011, 12:19 PM #10Registered User
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
I have several theories, this is the one I come back to a lot:
Dad goes to work, Mom has friend over, they get drinky. DB doesn't really remember much from that night. Family member (a couple of them are on my list) thinks DB has a drinking problem like her mom, and has decided that Lisa will be better off with them. Family member bends the screen to make it look like an intruder, then goes in the front door w/ or w/o key. Grabs Lisa, snatches the cell phones b/c who steals cell phones? Tosses the cell phones nearby. Family member didn't think it'd turn into such a circus and just intended to quietly move away.
10-18-2011, 12:31 PM #11
My theory is a short one: DB buys wine for the evening, knowing she is going to drink some while Jeremy is out for the night working.
DB invites neighbor over to drink some wine, DB gets drunk, Lisa is sick in her crib with a cold/cough. Lisa is screaming and crying and DB can't take it anymore having to be responsible with three kids in the house.
DB looses it and shakes baby Lisa to death or throws her and baby Lisa dies so DB has to cover her tracks, calls someone to help her get rid of the body and comes up with this "abduction" story to make it look like an "intruder" came through the front door, took 3 cell phones, turned on all the lights and left with baby Lisa without anybody in the house waking up.
10-18-2011, 12:41 PM #12Inactive
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
Mum buys wine at 5pm suggesting that she is going to have a drink that night alone or had already made plans with the neighbour - Sort of like, come over and keep me company as it's hubby first overnight at work.
Dad leaves for work 5.20pm
Mum puts Lisa down early 6.40pm as the boys are now watching a movie with other child and she has her friend over - it is now ME time.
Mum goes to check on baby 7.30pm (or so she says, more likely baby is crying and needs some attention and doesn't want to go down) so instead Mum says Lisa is standing up - I've got a feeling this is a blatent lie that she just arbitrarily checked on the baby. Mum not happy about baby not sleeping as it is supposed to be ME time so she gets quite rough with Lisa and does something, probably not even realising what she has done.
Friend leaves with her child at 10.30pm - Mum now puts boys to bed, no need to check on Lisa as she hasn't made a sound and is most likely dead by now, Mum turns out lights and puts head down for a while, (neighbour said that lights were off at some stage) as Mum is fairly pissed she gets up and again turns lights on and continues drinking, playing on computer etc. then stumbles back to bed probably fully dressed, this time leaving lights on and door unlocked.
Dad home after approx 8 hour shift which would be after 2am - sees the disarray of the house, tries to wake up Mum, checks the kids and finds Lisa dying or dead.
Mass panic ensues and as Dad is the one with the car he dumps the body and the cell phones, Mum stays at the house in case the kids wake up and cleans up the house. Dad comes back and he calls 911.
Last edited by darnudes; 10-18-2011 at 01:07 PM. Reason: sp
10-18-2011, 01:13 PM #13What lies behind you and what lies in front of you pales in comparison to what lies inside of you....
Ralph Waldo Emerson ~
10-18-2011, 01:40 PM #14
Right now I have two theories, the first of which was my original thought after about a week into the case.
1. Horrible accident in the home, baby died. Extended family assisting the young couple in the cover-up.
2. DB and/or JI are strapped for cash and have staged an abduction of their baby so they can make some money. Lisa is alive and being cared for by someone who doesn't live in the immediate area. Baby will eventually be "found", and DB can become an advocate for parents who are accused of having harmed their children. Cha-ching!
10-18-2011, 01:42 PM #15Inactive
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
I've had a few theories and went back and noted them. Here they are with my current theory last:
The theory is basically that somehow negligence caused the death of baby Lisa on Sunday night after the party, or perhaps the next day (the last day the parents saw her.) The mother and father then plotted a kidnapping story, perhaps afraid they would lose custody of their other two kids if the truth were to be revealed. They had to hide the phones because of that alleged 2:38 phone call between each other (MOO) confirming the baby had been disposed of at the dumpster and set to flames.
Here is my theory, subject to modification as facts unroll:
1. It was an accidental death.
a. Most likely way I come up with is Lisa was coughing Sunday night after the birthday party, and the mother gave her adult cough syrup. The baby was accidentally overdosed. In the morning she was found unquestionably dead.
2. The motive for staging a kidnap appears to be to avoid losing custody of the boys, namely Jeremy's son.
a. This is the best motive I can come up with for doing something crazy like staging an abduction/kidnapping like this.
b. I have tried in earnest to see what custody issues may exist with the boys, and have not been able to fully substantiate what may be going on there, but it appears that there may indeed be a lingering battle for custody of his son. Call it speculation for now as I have no link to provide for this.
3. The staging of the kidnapping involved not just the couple, but a third person.
a. Jeremy worked the night shift IMO so he would have an alibi.
b. Debbie needed someone to help get rid of the baby's clothes with vomit on them that would reveal she was poisoned. She also needed someone to dispose of the baby.
c. I believe she called in a favor from her brother/cousin/uncle (not sure) SN. I would like to elaborate on why I chose him of her relatives, but until he is (if he is) named a POI, it would not conform with forum rules.
d. The man at the store will be found to have been her brother. He lives 5 miles away and the store is on the google map path between the houses.
e. The accomplice burned the baby's clothes, etc. in that dumpster at 2:30 in the morning.
f. He then went back to the house and took the dead baby as plotted with DB.
g. Where he went with the body is anyone's guess, but my theory that he buried it in his backyard is based on where I think DB would want her daughter buried. Whether or not the accomplice was ok with this is not easy to determine, but I think he has made (errr - too much info.)
4. In this theory, DB, JI and the accomplice are all in on it.
I would like to know any theories on motive for murder by DB. The accidental death theory no longer feels valid to me.
I think I could sum up my current thoughts on this case as Casey Anthony 2.0
Yes, she did it, it was premeditated murder, it was done for money, and we are seeing a copy-cat of Casey Anthony. The accomplice will also be a lover.
The most major change in my thinking from the events of today is that I am pretty certain Jeremy was an accomplice and knows everything.
1. This was premeditated murder, with a staged kidnapping.
2. Motive was financial and possibly to pave the way to getting out of relationship with JI and running off with a lover.
3. This crime is way out of JI's league, so I think he comes in after the fact.
4. Time of death was earlier than the timeline given for when Lisa was last seen.
5. As soon as JI leaves for work at 5:20, Debbie poisions baby.
6. Baby is removed from house at night, and there appears to have been an accomplice to help do this. He sets the dumpster fire to burn the clothes. He then disposes of the baby in the river. I believe this accomplice will be a family member, OR AN UNKNOWN LOVER, and has a criminal record.
7. Jeremy comes home to no baby, calls 911.
8. Later, Debbie tells him of a story of accidental overdose, her panic, etc. and sells him on covering this up with her.
By Eureka in forum JonBenet RamseyReplies: 42Last Post: 08-23-2006, 12:07 AM