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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by cece5300 View Post
    I hope this is ok to ask this here; I apologize as I haven't been closely following this trial (after this past summer's disastrous CA trial outcome I was trial'd out. But I'm ready to jump back into following this trial now) : How much jail time could Dr Murray face if convicted? I tried to find out online but one answer I found said "none". I thought I'd come here and ask.
    He is charged with Involuntary Manslaughter and the max sentence is 4 yrs.
    Unless I've provided a link, everything I say is IMO

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by cece5300 View Post
    I hope this is ok to ask this here; I apologize as I haven't been closely following this trial (after this past summer's disastrous CA trial outcome I was trial'd out. But I'm ready to jump back into following this trial now) : How much jail time could Dr Murray face if convicted? I tried to find out online but one answer I found said "none". I thought I'd come here and ask.
    The video is on line somewhere (sorry I dont know where-maybe on the ABC local LA news station but I heard it again recently.

    As Judge Pastor reads the indictment to Murray he states afterward that if convicted he could serve up to four years in state prison.

    However in California it seems very little defendants do time so he may get to serve time in jail, house arrest or probation.

    That is why I believe the charges should have been higher since his acts were so far beyond gross recklessness and neglect.

    But whether he is even found guilty or not he will always be known as the man who killed MJ. And once the trial is over all three MBs are going to strip him of his licenses, imo.

    IMO
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by shgrbkr View Post
    I have given propofol many times, and when I saw that the saline bag was cut open with the bottle inside, I was puzzled. Still am. Generally, you have an IV line with saline and the propofol is hung via it's own tubing, sometimes to a dedicated IV site, and sometimes the propofol tubing is plugged into the saline tubing at the closest port to the patient. The IV bag is NEVER opened in any situation during an infusion. That would contaminate the line and possibly introduce bacteria into the line. IMO, the bag may have been cut and the propofol bottle thrown in just as you are getting rid of it to be thrown away. In this, or any case, though, that would be a pointless, time consuming step. I still don't understand what that's about. At any rate, the propofol I used for infusions were sent up from the pharmacy with a little bag that would hold the bottle and be used for a hanger. Looks like they make them with a plastic hanger on the bottle nowadays.

    Drugs are metabolized by the liver and kidneys in both men and women. Diprivan, however, is a lipid based drug, which may make it metabolize differently depending upon the amount of fat on a person. In MJ's case, he was so thin, I can't imagine how this would have behaved in his body. Seems to me the health of the liver would be more important. Also, if he was accustomed to getting Lorazepam, he would have some tolerance, but the only time I've heard of a patient getting that much of it is when I took care of burn patients in an ICU setting and the real bad ones would be on a drip. Of course, THEY WERE MONITORED, unlike MJ.
    He made his own hanger for the propofol bottle ( he didn't know it had it's own hanger on the bottle apparently) by slitting a saline solution bag and using that to hold the bottle by inserting the bottle into it. Sanitary condition of the saline solution wasn't an issue. That is not the saline solution he was using. He had a totally different saline solution bag with the main IV line that was attached to the IV catheter going into MJ's leg. The bag with the slit in it served no purpose other than to hold the propofol bottle up for the drip to work (similar to how you describe your propofol bottles were given to you with a bag to use for hanging the bottle - his was just homemade)
    Unless I've provided a link, everything I say is IMO

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talina View Post
    He is charged with Involuntary Manslaughter and the max sentence is 4 yrs.
    Morning Talina!

    Do you think Judge Pastor will get wind of the comment Dr. White made to the media? Remember there is a gag order in place and Dr. White is part of the DT who has been sitting at the defense table.

    I think it is quite unprofessional of Dr. White and shows his buttons can easily be pushed.

    Why would he be upset? It was his own theory that the propofol could be orally ingested. Its not Dr. Shafer's fault that it was a ludicrous theory.

    IMO
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

  5. #125
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    I just had a thought. Remember CM says that he let Dr. Adams use his office in LV to give MJ propofol for a few hours so he could "sleep"? Dr.Adams has come out screaming and kicking over that being said in CMs interview with detectives. After the day we listened to that tape played in court, Dr. Adams attorney was hitting the news circuit for a day or so (and has since disappeared) saying that is not true and Dr. Adams says he has given MJ propofol in the past for legitimate dental reasons and that he has NEVER given it to him at CMs office.

    I tend to believe that to be true. If MJ had received propofol from Dr.Adams at CM's office, then CM would have known how to properly hang the propofol bottle. I seriously doubt Dr. Adams uses a slit saline bag to hang a propofol bottle.
    Unless I've provided a link, everything I say is IMO

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talina View Post
    He made his own hanger for the propofol bottle ( he didn't know it had it's own hanger on the bottle apparently) by slitting a saline solution bag and using that to hold the bottle by inserting the bottle into it. Sanitary condition of the saline solution wasn't an issue. That is not the saline solution he was using. He had a totally different saline solution bag with the main IV line that was attached to the IV catheter going into MJ's leg. The bag with the slit in it served no purpose other than to hold the propofol bottle up for the drip to work (similar to how you describe your propofol bottles were given to you with a bag to use for hanging the bottle - his was just homemade)
    I couldnt believe when he shut the saline bag IV line off how quickly the propofol drip sped up.
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talina View Post
    I just had a thought. Remember CM says that he let Dr. Adams use his office in LV to give MJ propofol for a few hours so he could "sleep"? Dr.Adams has come out screaming and kicking over that being said in CMs interview with detectives. After the day we listened to that tape played in court, Dr. Adams attorney was hitting the news circuit for a day or so (and has since disappeared) saying that is not true and Dr. Adams says he has given MJ propofol in the past for legitimate dental reasons and that he has NEVER given it to him at CMs office.

    I tend to believe that to be true. If MJ had received propofol from Dr.Adams at CM's office, then CM would have known how to properly hang the propofol bottle. I seriously doubt Dr. Adams uses a slit saline bag to hang a propofol bottle.
    I cant wait until Dr. Adams testifies.

    He also said that CM had been asking LV doctors to give propofol to MJ since 2007. So could he not find anyone willing to do it in the home and decided he would do it himself and keep all of the big bucks coming in each month.

    Sure seems like $$$$$$$ motivated him to do it himself.

    It will be interesting who Walgren calls in rebuttal.

    I think CM was clueless about hanging the propofol up on the IV pole so he jerry rigged the bag and I was really amazed how well it worked. Of course he had it hung at the same level as the saline bag and that is a no no because of the gravity pull.

    IMO
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes View Post
    Morning Talina!

    Do you think Judge Pastor will get wind of the comment Dr. White made to the media? Remember there is a gag order in place and Dr. White is part of the DT who has been sitting at the defense table.

    I think it is quite unprofessional of Dr. White and shows his buttons can easily be pushed.

    Why would he be upset? It was his own theory that the propofol could be orally ingested. Its not Dr. Shafer's fault that it was a ludicrous theory.

    IMO
    Hi there! How are you feeling this morning?

    I don't know but I'll be very surprised if Judge Pastor doesn't get wind of the comments reportedly said by Dr. White. I'll be equally surprised if he doesn't take him to task for it, as he should.

    IMO the only time some one reacts as Dr. White is reacting is if he has no legitimate way of discrediting what has been said. If he was so sure he was the one that is right between the two of them, he'd wait his turn and relish in the types of questions he has given the defense to ask on cross and then just patiently wait, bask in the glory of his own testimony and discredit Dr.Shafer in the process. After his display yesterday, I just don't see that happening.

    I find the timing of the sequence of events to be amusing to be honest. Dr. White was retained by the defense before the prosecution retained Dr.Shafter (from what I have gathered). If that is accurate and I understood correctly what Walgren brought out on direct, they had Dr. White's report, had Dr. Shafer review it and said can you help us out here. The first time Dr. Shafer and Walgren spoke was in March of this year.

    I think Dr. White thought he was going to be the big guns in this trial with his "father of propofol" label that the defense has placed on him and much to his dismay not only did Dr. Shafer enter stage left, knocking his report into space but also said to the world who the true father of propofol is and it isn't Dr.White. Dr.White has also been saying to the defense team that Dr. Shafter was a student of his in medical school and again said that to the E!Online yesterday. Walgren asked Dr. Shafer this right when he got on the stand and Dr. Shafer said that is not true.

    What I find even more amusing is that in order to calculate some of the charts and modeling that Dr.Shafer used for his review and testimony, he used a published, peer reviewed paper that gives these formulas - authored by none other than Dr. White. How does Dr. White then come and discredit that?

    I think Dr. White is in deep doo doo and he knows it. Hence his temper tantrum yesterday.
    Unless I've provided a link, everything I say is IMO

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talina View Post
    Hi there! How are you feeling this morning?

    I don't know but I'll be very surprised if Judge Pastor doesn't get wind of the comments reportedly said by Dr. White. I'll be equally surprised if he doesn't take him to task for it, as he should.

    IMO the only time some one reacts as Dr. White is reacting is if he has no legitimate way of discrediting what has been said. If he was so sure he was the one that is right between the two of them, he'd wait his turn and relish in the types of questions he has given the defense to ask on cross and then just patiently wait, bask in the glory of his own testimony and discredit Dr.Shafer in the process. After his display yesterday, I just don't see that happening.

    I find the timing of the sequence of events to be amusing to be honest. Dr. White was retained by the defense before the prosecution retained Dr.Shafter (from what I have gathered). If that is accurate and I understood correctly what Walgren brought out on direct, they had Dr. White's report, had Dr. Shafer review it and said can you help us out here. The first time Dr. Shafer and Walgren spoke was in March of this year.

    I think Dr. White thought he was going to be the big guns in this trial with his "father of propofol" label that the defense has placed on him and much to his dismay not only did Dr. Shafer enter stage left, knocking his report into space but also said to the world who the true father of propofol is and it isn't Dr.White. Dr.White has also been saying to the defense team that Dr. Shafter was a student of his in medical school and again said that to the E!Online yesterday. Walgren asked Dr. Shafer this right when he got on the stand and Dr. Shafer said that is not true.

    What I find even more amusing is that in order to calculate some of the charts and modeling that Dr.Shafer used for his review and testimony, he used a published, peer reviewed paper that gives these formulas - authored by none other than Dr. White. How does Dr. White then come and discredit that?

    I think Dr. White is in deep doo doo and he knows it. Hence his temper tantrum yesterday.
    Thanking you for asking but I am no better. I am sure it will take awhile to get over it although I am darn ready for that to happen.

    It reminds me of the Anthony case when Dr. Rodriquez said he was co-founder of the Body Farm with Dr. Bass. A blatant embellished lie to pump up his CV.

    No doubt the direct examination was ingenious. What better way to dismantle defense theories than use their own defense expert's research and opinions.

    If Dr. White even considered oral ingestion it does give me pause if he really is on top of his game. Surely he could have researched it before rendering such a silly opinion and learned it is based on no literature to back it up. Even our wonderful nurses here have long told us that drinking propofol would not kill anyone.

    I want to see if he is being paid for his services. If so can you imagine how much it is costing just for him to sit in the courtroom everyday?

    imo
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talina View Post
    Hi there! How are you feeling this morning?

    I don't know but I'll be very surprised if Judge Pastor doesn't get wind of the comments reportedly said by Dr. White. I'll be equally surprised if he doesn't take him to task for it, as he should.

    IMO the only time some one reacts as Dr. White is reacting is if he has no legitimate way of discrediting what has been said. If he was so sure he was the one that is right between the two of them, he'd wait his turn and relish in the types of questions he has given the defense to ask on cross and then just patiently wait, bask in the glory of his own testimony and discredit Dr.Shafer in the process. After his display yesterday, I just don't see that happening.

    I find the timing of the sequence of events to be amusing to be honest. Dr. White was retained by the defense before the prosecution retained Dr.Shafter (from what I have gathered). If that is accurate and I understood correctly what Walgren brought out on direct, they had Dr. White's report, had Dr. Shafer review it and said can you help us out here. The first time Dr. Shafer and Walgren spoke was in March of this year.

    I think Dr. White thought he was going to be the big guns in this trial with his "father of propofol" label that the defense has placed on him and much to his dismay not only did Dr. Shafer enter stage left, knocking his report into space but also said to the world who the true father of propofol is and it isn't Dr.White. Dr.White has also been saying to the defense team that Dr. Shafter was a student of his in medical school and again said that to the E!Online yesterday. Walgren asked Dr. Shafer this right when he got on the stand and Dr. Shafer said that is not true.

    What I find even more amusing is that in order to calculate some of the charts and modeling that Dr.Shafer used for his review and testimony, he used a published, peer reviewed paper that gives these formulas - authored by none other than Dr. White. How does Dr. White then come and discredit that?

    I think Dr. White is in deep doo doo and he knows it. Hence his temper tantrum yesterday.
    I've been following the trial as best I can, considering we have been doing some remodeling here and it is a noisey, busy place. I am only now getting up to speed on which attorney does what and learning about the situation between Dr. White and Dr. Shafer.

    Having just had a nephew finish his PhD, I've been with him through the trials and travails of dueling mentors. He had to drop one because of the infighting he was causing. Academia is a brutal place, as has been shown by Dr. White's recent behavior and by some of the caustic comments aimed at him by Dr. Shafer. It's going on from both sides here.

    What is very bad for the defense is that White showed his hand openly in court and to the press yesterday. I'm sure Pastor will be having a "chat" before court today.

    It is also bad for the defense that White is now considered by the jury to be on shakey ground with his original report. Chernoff, from the reports I've seen will be doing the cross today. Why the change? Is White angry with Flannagan? Will White, when it comes his turn to testify bring his anger into his testimony?

    Fascinating dynamics going on here.

    MHO only.
    The greatest trespasser on justice still wishes it done to him.

    EDWARD COUNSEL, Maxims


  11. #131
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    Beth gets transcripts of the side bars.

    She said she believes there is a rift within the defense team.

    And that is why Chernoff is taking over cross examination of propofol expert.

    It seems Flanigan is not wanting to cross examine DS.

    IMO
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes View Post
    Beth gets transcripts of the side bars.

    She said she believes there is a rift within the defense team.

    And that is why Chernoff is taking over cross examination of propofol expert.

    It seems Flanigan is not wanting to cross examine DS.

    IMO

    My prayers have been answered!


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