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  1. #1
    Daisyjane's Avatar
    Daisyjane is offline "All the clouds are clearing, and I think we're over the storm."
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    Deborah's mother died when Deborah was 15 - what impact would this have?

    Deborah's mother died suddenly when Deborah was 15, leaving her as chief caregiver to her two younger brothers. How would this impact a woman's development, and later, her mothering style? Could it shed any light on Lisa's disappearance?

  2. #2
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    http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/261848...28386#45028386

    this is the link that discusses the content of the opening post..

    gentle reminder we do not sleuth family members

  3. #3
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    IMHO what effect that her Mother's death would have on DB would be contigent on the relationship that DB had with her. For me, personally, there is just no way to determine that given what little we know and also because the relationship between a parent and child is so complex, especially some relationships between some women and their daughters.

    The only question that I have is a timeline of DB's life. Her Mother died when she was 15, at what age was she married to her husband? Not that it has anything to do with Lisa, just curious about it is all. It's neither here nor there actually. JMHO

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    Debra, at the age of 15, couldn't possibly be the chief caretaker of her two younger brothers as she is still a child herself and could not finanicially support herself or her siblings.

    I would think there had to be a father, grandparents, aunts and uncles to step in to care for all the children.

    Teenagers are affected by death in many ways, as well as teens affected by parents splitting up and getting a divorce and never seeing a parent.

    Teenagers at the age of 15 become parents and manage, in a majority of cases, to raise their children with help from the family.

    I don't feel because Debra lost her mother at the age of 15 would shed any light on Lisa's disappearance.

  5. #5
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    Losing a parent at this age could cause her to be more dependent on a man.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kat View Post
    IMHO what effect that her Mother's death would have on DB would be contigent on the relationship that DB had with her. For me, personally, there is just no way to determine that given what little we know and also because the relationship between a parent and child is so complex, especially some relationships between some women and their daughters.

    The only question that I have is a timeline of DB's life. Her Mother died when she was 15, at what age was she married to her husband? Not that it has anything to do with Lisa, just curious about it is all. It's neither here nor there actually. JMHO
    IIRC she got married at 17.

  7. #7
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    I think that DB's having a baby girl and being able to name her after her deceased mother was a big deal to her. I have no doubt she was the apple of DB's eye. Unfortunately I'm not so sure if she learned good parental habits from her mother. Maybe she believed in "adult time" too.

    I'm sure her mother's death had a big impact on DB and perhaps Lisa somehow made her feel closer to her own mother. Her mother died in her sleep apparently. How odd would it be if baby Lisa also died in her sleep or at least in a bed and DB found her that way. I wonder who found her mother? What impact would that have on DB if she knew it was as a result of her own negligence?

    MOO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kat View Post
    IMHO what effect that her Mother's death would have on DB would be contigent on the relationship that DB had with her. For me, personally, there is just no way to determine that given what little we know and also because the relationship between a parent and child is so complex, especially some relationships between some women and their daughters.

    The only question that I have is a timeline of DB's life. Her Mother died when she was 15, at what age was she married to her husband? Not that it has anything to do with Lisa, just curious about it is all. It's neither here nor there actually. JMHO
    BBM

    Exactly. Without knowing what relationship they had, it would be very difficult to determine if it had an effect on DB, or her ability to care for her own children. It does seem, from outward appearances, that her children were well cared for, at least until the night Lisa disappeared.

    MOO
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  9. #9
    curiositycat's Avatar
    curiositycat is offline The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience
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    If the death was unexpected it would have an effect on any child, regardless of the age or sex of the child.

    The teenage years for most girls are turbulent anyway.

    I have given some thought to the fact that the baby was named after her mother.

    This could be a double whammy, mentally, since both "Lisa's" died under tragic circumstances. I am editing this to say that I am assuming at this time that LI is no longer living. I pray to God I am wrong.

    MOO
    Last edited by curiositycat; 10-25-2011 at 10:17 PM. Reason: added a sentence.
    "Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect" Steven Wright

  10. #10
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    BetteDavisEyes is online now "Fasten your seatbelts. It's going to be a bumpy night."
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    Some random thoughts on how her mother's death might have influenced Deborah's future behaviors and/or motherhood:

    *Besides caring for her two younger brothers, DB probably felt like she was expected to assume the other duties of the wife/mother in the household - cleaning house, cooking, doing laundry, etc. This would be lot of responsibility for a high school student, so I'd like to know just how much she was expected to do or if her dad hired someone to take care of the house, cook, etc.?

    *With a lot of responsibility thrust upon her to care for her younger brothers and/or household chores, Deborah might have not had time for the usual activities of a typical high school student. DB might feel that she was deprived of her teen years, hence the reason for insisting on "adult time" when she is caring for three young children in the Irwin household.

    *Since Deborah was put in the position of caring for her two younger brothers, she may have enjoyed the "only daughter" status in the family if her dad doted on her especially after the loss of his wife. Perhaps DB feels a special maternal bond with her son and JI's son because they are the reincarnation of her "younger brothers" and the relationship that she had with them as a teenager. Baby Lisa might have not been as welcome into the family unit as some might think. jmo


  11. #11
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    My mother in law lost her mother when she was only 14. Her father travelled the world to leave his children with a nanny. She inherited his love for travel and went on to become a highly effective person, wife and mother of 7. She let the little things roll off her back. My mother list her mom when my mom was in her 40s. It destroyed my mother and she never bounced back from it. Different people adapt different ways and it is impossible to figure what her loss could mean. That said, it is quite apparent that she loved Lisa very much to name her after her mother. Love and respect is all I can glean. I don't see how losing a parent can make you ever want to harm their namesake.

    IMO

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    My mother's mother died suddenly (apparently of a brain anneurism, hard to tell) when my Mom was 14 and she was a fabulous mother. I really think if you've had a great mom until your teens, if she sadly passes away, you have the blue print on how to be a great mom. My mom sure got it. ;D

  13. #13
    I wonder if there are any other motherless mothers on here who have a perspective? I lost my mom at 5, and in a different way, so it's not exactly the same.

    Going through life without a constant female mentor didn't seem to be an overwhelmingly big deal in the moment, but I definitely grew up ahead of my years. I went through everything early, even teen stuff. Partied early, settled down early, had kids early.

    For me, having kids and finding that mother/daughter bond with them has been very healing. I've never in my life felt so at peace as I have as a mother. I really think there is something about knowing life "without" that sort of love that makes you so very thankful for it.

    That is one reason I'm so hesitant to call her guilty until I hear more science. I threw CA under the bus the first time I heard her talk. I just really can't fathom a motherless girl hurting her daughter. It's mind boggling to me. Time will tell, I tend to trust science over all else.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes View Post
    Some random thoughts on how her mother's death might have influenced Deborah's future behaviors and/or motherhood:

    *Besides caring for her two younger brothers, DB probably felt like she was expected to assume the other duties of the wife/mother in the household - cleaning house, cooking, doing laundry, etc. This would be lot of responsibility for a high school student, so I'd like to know just how much she was expected to do or if her dad hired someone to take care of the house, cook, etc.?

    *With a lot of responsibility thrust upon her to care for her younger brothers and/or household chores, Deborah might have not had time for the usual activities of a typical high school student. DB might feel that she was deprived of her teen years, hence the reason for insisting on "adult time" when she is caring for three young children in the Irwin household.

    *Since Deborah was put in the position of caring for her two younger brothers, she may have enjoyed the "only daughter" status in the family if her dad doted on her especially after the loss of his wife. Perhaps DB feels a special maternal bond with her son and JI's son because they are the reincarnation of her "younger brothers" and the relationship that she had with them as a teenager. Baby Lisa might have not been as welcome into the family unit as some might think. jmo
    You brought up a lot of the same things I was thinking. Thank you. Because of some of the above, I think DB may have believed herself to be mature beyond her years and ready for marriage even though she was only 17 when she married. I think she may have been resentful of the responsibilities thrust upon her and was eager to run away and escape the situation. I probably would have felt the same way at that age.

    One thing that struck me, and I don't have a link, but I bet most of you remember DB defending her mothering skills by saying she keeps the house clean and the kids clean and fed, or something along those lines. I thought about that and why does she think keeping the house clean and the kids fed is the definition of being a "good mother?" I wonder if that is all she got from her own mother? No real nurturing, or conversation, or teaching? How sad.
    Justice is the constant and perpetual will to allot to every man his due. Domitus Ulpian

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    Just for clarification, I thought DB had one younger and one older brother? Not trying to sleuth, I just thought this was established. Does anyone know?

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