Deborah's mother died when Deborah was 15 - what impact would this have?

Deborah's mother died suddenly when Deborah was 15, leaving her as chief caregiver to her two younger brothers. How would this impact a woman's development, and later, her mothering style? Could it shed any light on Lisa's disappearance?

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/45028386#45028386

this is the link that discusses the content of the opening post..

gentle reminder we do not sleuth family members

IMHO what effect that her Mother's death would have on DB would be contigent on the relationship that DB had with her. For me, personally, there is just no way to determine that given what little we know and also because the relationship between a parent and child is so complex, especially some relationships between some women and their daughters.

The only question that I have is a timeline of DB's life. Her Mother died when she was 15, at what age was she married to her husband? Not that it has anything to do with Lisa, just curious about it is all. It's neither here nor there actually. JMHO

Debra, at the age of 15, couldn't possibly be the chief caretaker of her two younger brothers as she is still a child herself and could not finanicially support herself or her siblings.

I would think there had to be a father, grandparents, aunts and uncles to step in to care for all the children.

Teenagers are affected by death in many ways, as well as teens affected by parents splitting up and getting a divorce and never seeing a parent.

Teenagers at the age of 15 become parents and manage, in a majority of cases, to raise their children with help from the family.

I don't feel because Debra lost her mother at the age of 15 would shed any light on Lisa's disappearance.

Losing a parent at this age could cause her to be more dependent on a man.

Kat said:

IMHO what effect that her Mother's death would have on DB would be contigent on the relationship that DB had with her. For me, personally, there is just no way to determine that given what little we know and also because the relationship between a parent and child is so complex, especially some relationships between some women and their daughters.

The only question that I have is a timeline of DB's life. Her Mother died when she was 15, at what age was she married to her husband? Not that it has anything to do with Lisa, just curious about it is all. It's neither here nor there actually. JMHO

Click to expand...

IIRC she got married at 17.

I think that DB's having a baby girl and being able to name her after her deceased mother was a big deal to her. I have no doubt she was the apple of DB's eye. Unfortunately I'm not so sure if she learned good parental habits from her mother. Maybe she believed in "adult time" too.

I'm sure her mother's death had a big impact on DB and perhaps Lisa somehow made her feel closer to her own mother. Her mother died in her sleep apparently. How odd would it be if baby Lisa also died in her sleep or at least in a bed and DB found her that way. I wonder who found her mother? What impact would that have on DB if she knew it was as a result of her own negligence?

MOO

Kat said:

IMHO what effect that her Mother's death would have on DB would be contigent on the relationship that DB had with her. For me, personally, there is just no way to determine that given what little we know and also because the relationship between a parent and child is so complex, especially some relationships between some women and their daughters.

The only question that I have is a timeline of DB's life. Her Mother died when she was 15, at what age was she married to her husband? Not that it has anything to do with Lisa, just curious about it is all. It's neither here nor there actually. JMHO

Click to expand...

BBM

Exactly. Without knowing what relationship they had, it would be very difficult to determine if it had an effect on DB, or her ability to care for her own children. It does seem, from outward appearances, that her children were well cared for, at least until the night Lisa disappeared.

MOO

If the death was unexpected it would have an effect on any child, regardless of the age or sex of the child.

The teenage years for most girls are turbulent anyway.

I have given some thought to the fact that the baby was named after her mother.

This could be a double whammy, mentally, since both "Lisa's" died under tragic circumstances. I am editing this to say that I am assuming at this time that LI is no longer living. I pray to God I am wrong.

MOO

Some random thoughts on how her mother's death might have influenced Deborah's future behaviors and/or motherhood:

*Besides caring for her two younger brothers, DB probably felt like she was expected to assume the other duties of the wife/mother in the household - cleaning house, cooking, doing laundry, etc. This would be lot of responsibility for a high school student, so I'd like to know just how much she was expected to do or if her dad hired someone to take care of the house, cook, etc.?

*With a lot of responsibility thrust upon her to care for her younger brothers and/or household chores, Deborah might have not had time for the usual activities of a typical high school student. DB might feel that she was deprived of her teen years, hence the reason for insisting on "adult time" when she is caring for three young children in the Irwin household.

*Since Deborah was put in the position of caring for her two younger brothers, she may have enjoyed the "only daughter" status in the family if her dad doted on her especially after the loss of his wife. Perhaps DB feels a special maternal bond with her son and JI's son because they are the reincarnation of her "younger brothers" and the relationship that she had with them as a teenager. Baby Lisa might have not been as welcome into the family unit as some might think. jmo

My mother in law lost her mother when she was only 14. Her father travelled the world to leave his children with a nanny. She inherited his love for travel and went on to become a highly effective person, wife and mother of 7. She let the little things roll off her back. My mother list her mom when my mom was in her 40s. It destroyed my mother and she never bounced back from it. Different people adapt different ways and it is impossible to figure what her loss could mean. That said, it is quite apparent that she loved Lisa very much to name her after her mother. Love and respect is all I can glean. I don't see how losing a parent can make you ever want to harm their namesake.

IMO

My mother's mother died suddenly (apparently of a brain anneurism, hard to tell) when my Mom was 14 and she was a fabulous mother. I really think if you've had a great mom until your teens, if she sadly passes away, you have the blue print on how to be a great mom. My mom sure got it. ;D

I wonder if there are any other motherless mothers on here who have a perspective? I lost my mom at 5, and in a different way, so it's not exactly the same.

Going through life without a constant female mentor didn't seem to be an overwhelmingly big deal in the moment, but I definitely grew up ahead of my years. I went through everything early, even teen stuff. Partied early, settled down early, had kids early.

For me, having kids and finding that mother/daughter bond with them has been very healing. I've never in my life felt so at peace as I have as a mother. I really think there is something about knowing life "without" that sort of love that makes you so very thankful for it.

That is one reason I'm so hesitant to call her guilty until I hear more science. I threw CA under the bus the first time I heard her talk. I just really can't fathom a motherless girl hurting her daughter. It's mind boggling to me. Time will tell, I tend to trust science over all else.

BetteDavisEyes said:

Some random thoughts on how her mother's death might have influenced Deborah's future behaviors and/or motherhood:

*Besides caring for her two younger brothers, DB probably felt like she was expected to assume the other duties of the wife/mother in the household - cleaning house, cooking, doing laundry, etc. This would be lot of responsibility for a high school student, so I'd like to know just how much she was expected to do or if her dad hired someone to take care of the house, cook, etc.?

*With a lot of responsibility thrust upon her to care for her younger brothers and/or household chores, Deborah might have not had time for the usual activities of a typical high school student. DB might feel that she was deprived of her teen years, hence the reason for insisting on "adult time" when she is caring for three young children in the Irwin household.

*Since Deborah was put in the position of caring for her two younger brothers, she may have enjoyed the "only daughter" status in the family if her dad doted on her especially after the loss of his wife. Perhaps DB feels a special maternal bond with her son and JI's son because they are the reincarnation of her "younger brothers" and the relationship that she had with them as a teenager. Baby Lisa might have not been as welcome into the family unit as some might think. jmo

Click to expand...

You brought up a lot of the same things I was thinking. Thank you. Because of some of the above, I think DB may have believed herself to be mature beyond her years and ready for marriage even though she was only 17 when she married. I think she may have been resentful of the responsibilities thrust upon her and was eager to run away and escape the situation. I probably would have felt the same way at that age.

One thing that struck me, and I don't have a link, but I bet most of you remember DB defending her mothering skills by saying she keeps the house clean and the kids clean and fed, or something along those lines. I thought about that and why does she think keeping the house clean and the kids fed is the definition of being a "good mother?" I wonder if that is all she got from her own mother? No real nurturing, or conversation, or teaching? How sad.

Just for clarification, I thought DB had one younger and one older brother? Not trying to sleuth, I just thought this was established. Does anyone know?

Kamille said:

I think that DB's having a baby girl and being able to name her after her deceased mother was a big deal to her. I have no doubt she was the apple of DB's eye. Unfortunately I'm not so sure if she learned good parental habits from her mother. Maybe she believed in "adult time" too.

I'm sure her mother's death had a big impact on DB and perhaps Lisa somehow made her feel closer to her own mother. Her mother died in her sleep apparently. How odd would it be if baby Lisa also died in her sleep or at least in a bed and DB found her that way. I wonder who found her mother? What impact would that have on DB if she knew it was as a result of her own negligence?

MOO

Click to expand...

BBM This could explain the grieving comment; she is going through another tragedy. The fear of the unknown with Lisa would exacerbate the grief she felt for her mother. IMHO

My mother died in 1981, I was 15 years old.

I have tried over and over to post something to share some insight with everyone as to what that was like. Each time I do, I am overwhelmed by emotions and unable to clear my thoughts enough to write them down.

It's not something that you can explain to someone. A survivor of the titanic can tell you what happened because everything that happened was a physical event. Grief is an internal emotional event and very hard to explain how each individual relates to it. There is a Phenomena that happens to teenage girls that lose their mothers, it's not a normal emotional event because teenagers have immature emotions that are all over the place to begin with, then you add the loss of the primary nurturer and something very strange happens to a young girl that must learn to become her own mother. I have seen it happen to boys who have lost their mother when they were teens too (my husband's mother committed suicide when he was 16).

There is a book that addresses the subject of women who lost their mothers when they were teenagers, it's called "Motherless Daughters". The book was written because it's a very different kind of grief that affects your entire life.

I will try to add some insight to some of the thoughts that have been posted.

---Losing a mother can cause someone to be more dependent on men.
The answer is yes it can but it depends on the situation. My sister is 4 years older than me and very dependent on men. She is currently in an abusive relationship that she refuses to leave because she is afraid she cannot make it on her own without a man. She was closer to my mother than I was. After my mom died, my father became a drunk and basically left me an orphan. At 16 I quit school, got my GED, went to work full time and got my own apartment (I was legally emancipated at the age of 16). I know I can make it without a man.

--parenting
My daughter and I are very close...in fact she lives in the basement apartment of my house. Experiencing her teenage years was a unique experience for me...it was like experiencing it for the first time myself. I can still remember her first broken heart, I cuddled her and told her that he was just a dumb guy that was to blind to see how wonderful she was. Part of that comes from it being true but part of it comes from wishing I had a mother that would have said something like that to me when my heart was broken. I think a lot of my parenting skills came more from what I wished I would have had from my mother rather than from what I had actually experienced.

--grieving
I can certainly understand why Deborah would state that they are grieving. If she hasn't completely healed from her mother's death, any significant loss will open up those scars and you experience those original feelings from your mother's death all over again...on top of the new feelings of loss. I was 30 years old before I had finally completely healed. Most of the emotions I feel on the subject of my mother's death now are overwhelming feelings of gratitude and faith.

--I do specifically remember when I was around the age of 24, I felt like I had completely lost my own identity. I was a stay at home mom and I was mother and wife. I was no longer me and really had no idea who I was anymore. I had to start spending some time being me and I would guess that is what Deborah considers to be her adult time. For me, I chose to get a job outside the home and to also do some volunteer work in the community.

About 6 years ago I went and got my first tattoo on my back. It's a broken wreath of 3 roses and one rose bud. The roses for my grandmother, my mother and me and the rose bud for my daughter. Inside the wreath it says Laugh, Love, Live. A year later I added a mirror image of that tattoo with the words Hope, Faith, Serenity. Three years ago I got my last tattoo of a single yellow rose above my thumb in memory of my mother (she belonged to a sorority and the yellow rose was their flower, I always remembered a single yellow rose in a vase on our kitchen table). I tell you this because I swore I would never ever get a tattoo and yet, the memory of my mother and the affect her death had on my life is so powerful....that putting a permanent scar on my flesh where I could see it and own it was part of the process of healing the scars on my soul that I could only feel.

I do have to totally agree with what Abby Normal has to say when it comes to parenting.

I have no way of knowing how DB's loss of her mother at such a young age affected her, but I can try to explain what kind of affect it had on me. Angleena's post really moved me because it made me think of things I had not thought about in a very long time.

I lost my mother when I was 11. I only have 1 brother who is 6 years older, so I really did not have to take care of any younger siblings. Also, my mothers passing was not sudden. She had been sick most of her life and I feel very grateful for the chance to say she was my mother. I am not sure if being "prepared" for it made it any easier.

My mother was the clone of June Cleaver. When she passed my father expected me to just step right up into the position of chef and maid. Admittedly, I had been fairly spoiled to the whole chores thing since my grandmother lived with us from the time I would have been old enough to accept any type of responsibilities and kind of just took over. I was too much into my self at that age to realize it would have been kind of me to step up and offer. ;p
Mom was gone so my grandmother moved out immediately. It was then my job to do the laundry, cleaning, taking care of pets, cooking and anything else that should have been done by the "woman" of the house (in the opinion of my father and brother). Dad also did not know how to handle his grief and became physically abusive towards me. I know it is not an excuse, but I am not in his head..*shrug*

When I was thrown into the position it was so sudden that I really didn't have time to think about it...I just had to keep moving. How nice it would have been to have a mother to comfort me for that first dreaded *ahem* TOM, after a breakup, or fight with a best friend. At the time I didn't even think about it though..I just lived.

My teenage years were pretty hectic. I made bad boyfriend choices then, an even worse husband choice later, and some really bad lifestyle choices all the way around. However, I was never in trouble, I graduated highschool, and completed technical school with a GPA of 3.8. I did not get married until I was 23, and my only child was born when I was 26.

My 30's have become a time of rediscovering who I was actually meant to be. I love being a mother and I really feel as though my daughter is a gift from God and it is my job to protect her and teach her how to be the best she can possibly be. I love doing things with her that I remember doing with my mother when I was her age. It is amazing watching her grow! I could never imagine hurting her!!!

I feel that I rambled through most of this post..sorry about that :blushing:

I knew 2 or 3 girls in school who did not have mothers with them any longer. I don't want to say they were "different," but they were. And I can't quite put my finger on it either. In fact, I knew a couple boys who lost their mother as well, and they were also a little "different" from the other kids. I don't mean weird, or bad, or wrong, or anything like that. They were good kids. More like they just were missing a little bit of their heart, and something else I can't quite explain. Just different.

I don't think anyone would know if a person lost a parent at the age of 15 how or if it would impact their life. even if the person themselves were asked - because they know no different. and, of course, if you asked a person who didn't lose their mother at age 15, they would not know because they didn't live through that experience.