new questions?

Wow, first let me say I'm glad to be back. For some reason the past few weeks I've been unable to get this page/forum to load. I finally got here by getting to another page and doing a search on Jonbennet.
Anyway. I've read most of all the post on this forum and have a question. Most references I've seen to the pineapple calls it "freshly cut", so my question is was there ever a search of trash cans, disposal, etc for the rind, the top, or a can of pineapple?
If a mod sees this post do you know why I can't always get this particular forum to load? Also couldn't get the Murray case.
Thanks,

tweezybird said:

Wow, first let me say I'm glad to be back. For some reason the past few weeks I've been unable to get this page/forum to load. I finally got here by getting to another page and doing a search on Jonbennet.
Anyway. I've read most of all the post on this forum and have a question. Most references I've seen to the pineapple calls it "freshly cut", so my question is was there ever a search of trash cans, disposal, etc for the rind, the top, or a can of pineapple?
If a mod sees this post do you know why I can't always get this particular forum to load? Also couldn't get the Murray case.
Thanks,

Click to expand...

Glad you made it in!
It was not canned pineapple. The pineapple was described as "fresh, cut pineapple" (it was cut in chinks), not that it had just been "freshly cut".
There was no can to be found. Patsy always bought fresh pineapple. Checking the garbage may or may not have turned up a rind, as supermarkets sell fresh pineapple already cut in chunks in the deli dept. Patsy may have bought it already cut up, ant not necessarily a whole pineapple. And depending when their garbage was picked up, even if there had been a rind it may have not still been in the garbage.
There was still pineapple in the bowl, which was tested along with the pineapple in JB's digestive tract, and it was found to be a match.

tweezybird said:

Wow, first let me say I'm glad to be back. For some reason the past few weeks I've been unable to get this page/forum to load. I finally got here by getting to another page and doing a search on Jonbennet.
Anyway. I've read most of all the post on this forum and have a question. Most references I've seen to the pineapple calls it "freshly cut", so my question is was there ever a search of trash cans, disposal, etc for the rind, the top, or a can of pineapple?
If a mod sees this post do you know why I can't always get this particular forum to load? Also couldn't get the Murray case.
Thanks,

Click to expand...

tweezybird,
Maybe your security is blocking websleuths? Well what DeeDee249 states e.g. There was still pineapple in the bowl, which was tested along with the pineapple in JB's digestive tract, and it was found to be a match. along with the size-12 underwear JonBenet was wearing when discovered tell you it was an inside job.

No intruder is going to bring freshly cut pineapple along with his Erotic Asphyxiation Kit, and also seek out a pair of size-12 Bloomingdales Wednesday featured underwear, whilst leaving the remaining five pairs, where, for subsequent inspection?

Even Patsy realized this was one step too far and had a story to tell about the Bloomingdales!


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Hi all.
Well I'm not sure what my issue is with the site. I'm at my local library and still had problems getting this site to load. Anyway about the pineapple I forgot about the pre-cut kind at the market. Any suggestion from anyone on how to configure my security. I was able to get on here during the Anthony debacle, but every time I went to change to a new page I had to hit the refresh button several time each page. Then after my pineapple post couldn't get past the first page, the one with the pic of the search dog.
Will check back next time I come into town.
Thanks,
Terri

BTW, what's the status on SuperDave's book.

tweezybird said:

Hi all.
Well I'm not sure what my issue is with the site. I'm at my local library and still had problems getting this site to load. Anyway about the pineapple I forgot about the pre-cut kind at the market. Any suggestion from anyone on how to configure my security. I was able to get on here during the Anthony debacle, but every time I went to change to a new page I had to hit the refresh button several time each page. Then after my pineapple post couldn't get past the first page, the one with the pic of the search dog.
Will check back next time I come into town.
Thanks,
Terri

BTW, what's the status on SuperDave's book.

Click to expand...

Waiting patiently for an answer to my last communication.

tweezybird said:

Wow, first let me say I'm glad to be back. For some reason the past few weeks I've been unable to get this page/forum to load. I finally got here by getting to another page and doing a search on Jonbennet.
Anyway. I've read most of all the post on this forum and have a question. Most references I've seen to the pineapple calls it "freshly cut", so my question is was there ever a search of trash cans, disposal, etc for the rind, the top, or a can of pineapple?
If a mod sees this post do you know why I can't always get this particular forum to load? Also couldn't get the Murray case.
Thanks,

Click to expand...

As far as being a match, I think that's another Steve Thomas urban legend. What did they do a DNA test on pineapple? She could have had that at the White's. The odds are there was fruit there, and pineapple wouldn't have been unusual. IMO, there was much ado about nothing as far as the pineapple. If there had been food in JBR's stomach, that could have been significant.

One of my questions has always been....did they test the cigarette butts gathered outside for DNA? Especially if it matched the DNA found on JBR....or any potential suspects (like Helgoth) where they had their DNA. "If" the perp(s) smoked, the odds are he may have smoked outside the window..or near it.

Maikai said:

One of my questions has always been....did they test the cigarette butts gathered outside for DNA? Especially if it matched the DNA found on JBR....or any potential suspects (like Helgoth) where they had their DNA. "If" the perp(s) smoked, the odds are he may have smoked outside the window..or near it.

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Maikai,
Going by their track-record they only seemed to test things that exonerated the Ramseys. We have never been told if JonBenet's dna was found on the package containing the size-12's. Although a negative is not conclusive, it is not very helpful towards the Ramsey case.


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Maikai said:

One of my questions has always been....did they test the cigarette butts gathered outside for DNA? Especially if it matched the DNA found on JBR....or any potential suspects (like Helgoth) where they had their DNA. "If" the perp(s) smoked, the odds are he may have smoked outside the window..or near it.

Click to expand...

Of course they should have been tested, but I doubt they ever were. Ditto the spoon found in the pineapple bowl, the paper tag on the tea bag in the glass and the rim of the glass itself. We know they found BR's prints on the glass, but testing the rim for saliva DNA would have been wise.
Let's face it- there was PLENTY that should have been tested and was not.

DeeDee249 said:

Of course they should have been tested, but I doubt they ever were. Ditto the spoon found in the pineapple bowl, the paper tag on the tea bag in the glass and the rim of the glass itself. We know they found BR's prints on the glass, but testing the rim for saliva DNA would have been wise.
Let's face it- there was PLENTY that should have been tested and was not.

Click to expand...

I think they only tested on items where DNA would be significant. Even then there was DNA they didn't test for until several years ago. The location of cigarette butts, and brand of cigarette could have been relevant. In that other case where there was an intruder with circumstances that were similar, they found cigarette butts outside the house--nothing ever said about testing those either, and the perp was never found.

Maikai said:

As far as being a match, I think that's another Steve Thomas urban legend. What did they do a DNA test on pineapple? She could have had that at the White's. The odds are there was fruit there, and pineapple wouldn't have been unusual. IMO, there was much ado about nothing as far as the pineapple. If there had been food in JBR's stomach, that could have been significant.

Click to expand...

Maybe because there was a bowl of fresh pineapple found in the Ramsay home that night/morning?:twocents:

jaded cat said:

Maybe because there was a bowl of fresh pineapple found in the Ramsay home that night/morning?:twocents:

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I can see where it was of interest, but it doesn't shed any light on who did it, and the Ramseys weren't known to be neatnik fanatics. It was also found in her duodenum, so it had passed through the stomach---it could have been hours. I think even ol' Wecht said it would have been relevant if it was in her stomach. I think the bottom line is if it offered anything to the evidence, and it doesn't.

well not a new question, but I ´d like to know why was JBR wearing size 12-14 panties and what her mom said about it, thanks
Very merry Christmas and a great 2012 to all of you!
Heidi,mom of missing Dirk Schiller

other question, what has been done first what you think ?
writting the ransom note or killing JBR?

Maikai said:

I can see where it was of interest, but it doesn't shed any light on who did it, and the Ramseys weren't known to be neatnik fanatics. It was also found in her duodenum, so it had passed through the stomach---it could have been hours. I think even ol' Wecht said it would have been relevant if it was in her stomach. I think the bottom line is if it offered anything to the evidence, and it doesn't.

Click to expand...

It was relevant because her parents denied knowing about it. The pineapple came from THAT bowl, Patsy's prints were on the bowl, and it was eaten about 2 hours before her death. The reason why this is significant is that the parents claimed she was asleep when they got home and they never saw her alive again. This was false. NO intruder would have hung around the house 2 hours after feeding her pineapple.
The pineapple has significance because it IS so innocent. Why lie about it? It isn't the pineapple itself that needed to be lied about. It was whether JB was awake or not in the approx 2 hours she lived after getting home from the White's. This agrees with the Rs own timeline, by the way. They claimed they got home around 9:30-10 pm. The scream was heard by the neighbor around midnight, the "moving lights" in the kitchen area (where the flashlight was found) and the stage of rigor mortis she was found in the next day all point to a death around midnight to 1 am, and that agrees precisely with her having eaten a bedtime snack of pineapple shortly after they got home. When she was AWAKE.

DeeDee249 said:

It was relevant because her parents denied knowing about it. The pineapple came from THAT bowl, Patsy's prints were on the bowl, and it was eaten about 2 hours before her death. The reason why this is significant is that the parents claimed she was asleep when they got home and they never saw her alive again. This was false. NO intruder would have hung around the house 2 hours after feeding her pineapple.
The pineapple has significance because it IS so innocent. Why lie about it? It isn't the pineapple itself that needed to be lied about. It was whether JB was awake or not in the approx 2 hours she lived after getting home from the White's. This agrees with the Rs own timeline, by the way. They claimed they got home around 9:30-10 pm. The scream was heard by the neighbor around midnight, the "moving lights" in the kitchen area (where the flashlight was found) and the stage of rigor mortis she was found in the next day all point to a death around midnight to 1 am, and that agrees precisely with her having eaten a bedtime snack of pineapple shortly after they got home. When she was AWAKE.

Click to expand...

I do think JBR was killed by her mother, and that she did eat a snack of pineapple after she came home, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why on earth her parents would lie about it. How would lying about the snack help them if they killed their daughter? It was only a matter of a couple of hours, right? How is feeding your child pineapple, flipping out a bit later, and killing her sound less like bullcrap than saying that she slept from car to bed? I still don't get it.

DeeDee249 said:

Of course they should have been tested, but I doubt they ever were. Ditto the spoon found in the pineapple bowl, the paper tag on the tea bag in the glass and the rim of the glass itself. We know they found BR's prints on the glass, but testing the rim for saliva DNA would have been wise.
Let's face it- there was PLENTY that should have been tested and was not.

Click to expand...

DeeDee249,

Let's face it- there was PLENTY that should have been tested and was not.

Click to expand...

If the evidence has been kept in a sealed container and its chain of custody is valid then they can still undertake these tests?

I reckon if they were not done, then this was deliberate and strongly suggests an inside job to allow the Ramsey's to evade justice.



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Alix said:

I do think JBR was killed by her mother, and that she did eat a snack of pineapple after she came home, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why on earth her parents would lie about it. How would lying about the snack help them if they killed their daughter? It was only a matter of a couple of hours, right? How is feeding your child pineapple, flipping out a bit later, and killing her sound less like bullcrap than saying that she slept from car to bed? I still don't get it.

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I tried to explain. Lying about the pineapple helps them if they are guilty of the crime and/or coverup NOT because the actual EATING is a problem, but the TIMELINE of eating it is a problem. If the parents admit they knew she ate the pineapple before bed (proving she was awake after they got home), that would have to mean that her molestation, the scream, head bash, garroting and everything else happened in less than 2 hours. It would mean that the RN was written in that small window of time as well. That is simply not enough time, and the MOST important thing is that the parents could not have been guaranteed to be asleep, or deeply enough asleep not to hear anything. It was already proven the scream could have been heard upstairs in the parents' third-floor bedroom. And Patsy said she still had a lot to do before they left for their trip. Patsy was still dressed in the same clothes she wore to the White's party, with full make up and hairstyle. No way she went to bed that night, and the parents' bed doesn't look slept in anyway.

DeeDee249 said:

It was relevant because her parents denied knowing about it. The pineapple came from THAT bowl, Patsy's prints were on the bowl, and it was eaten about 2 hours before her death. The reason why this is significant is that the parents claimed she was asleep when they got home and they never saw her alive again. This was false. NO intruder would have hung around the house 2 hours after feeding her pineapple.
The pineapple has significance because it IS so innocent. Why lie about it? It isn't the pineapple itself that needed to be lied about. It was whether JB was awake or not in the approx 2 hours she lived after getting home from the White's. This agrees with the Rs own timeline, by the way. They claimed they got home around 9:30-10 pm. The scream was heard by the neighbor around midnight, the "moving lights" in the kitchen area (where the flashlight was found) and the stage of rigor mortis she was found in the next day all point to a death around midnight to 1 am, and that agrees precisely with her having eaten a bedtime snack of pineapple shortly after they got home. When she was AWAKE.

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There's been so much debate about the timeline and the pineapple, I think she ate it earlier. There would be no reason to lie about it....likewise the controversy about Burke being asleep or awake the morning the ransom note was found. I'm convinced JBR was asleep and did not wake up and eat anything after she got home.

Maikai said:

There's been so much debate about the timeline and the pineapple, I think she ate it earlier. There would be no reason to lie about it....likewise the controversy about Burke being asleep or awake the morning the ransom note was found. I'm convinced JBR was asleep and did not wake up and eat anything after she got home.

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The timeline of the pineapple doesn't come from ME, and it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. Forensic pathology is science, not opinion.
It was the coroner's comment that the pineapple would take 2 hours to get from her stomach to her small intestine, where it was found. The "soft, green fecal material" found lower down in her intestinal track would likely be whatever she ate at the White's or earlier in the day. The green color and the fact that it was described as fecal material (which the pineapple not yet was) puts it in a position to have been excreted at some point relatively soon, but not imminently before her death or it would have been eliminated at death when the muscles went flaccid. No feces was found externally, no fecal stains on her clothes- only urine stains.
The pineapple in the bowl was tested in a lab and found to match the pineapple in the bowl. That was a FACT. There was no reason to lie about that either.
BUT- if you are the parents of a molested and murdered child AND it happened while you were at home AND you know what happened and who killed her (intentionally or not) AND you stage a fake kidnapping to cover it up-you might very well feel it is better to say she was asleep when you got home and you never saw her again. THAT is a reason to lie about the pineapple. If you admit she ate it you have to admit she was awake- and then you have to admit you lied about her being carried asleep into the house. (by the way, BR told police his sister walked into the house).
Let's face it. When posters are on opposite sided of a case, there are always going to be things that are believed and things that are not. In this case, there are some FACTS that cannot be dismissed by saying "why would the parents lie about the pineapple? She must have eaten it at the White's" when the CORONER and all of forensic science stated that the pineapple was eaten no more than 2 hours before her death. The FACTS of rigor mortis can't be overlooked either, and the stage of rigor she was found in added to the position of the pineapple in her digestive tract put her death between midnight and 1 am, whether or not the coroner put a TOD in the report.