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  1. #1
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    JR's profile

    I always thought that if RDI it was probably JR or BR who did it.
    But I always admit I can be wrong so I was thinking lately,hey maybe I am wrong,what if indeed PDI.
    If PDI,I still am convinced that this wasn't just about bedwetting but about something more serious (maybe MSBP,severe depression,attention seeking/rage/jealousy,etc).

    Now one of the reasons I lean towards JDI (possible prior abuse is another strong one) is JR's behaviour.I always had this strong gut feeling that he is LYING.He is also a very smart man,I don't think anyone disagrees.Also way too calm and collected.And very cautious when answering questions.

    One of my JDI theories even implies that part of his staging only meant to fool PR,that she didn't even knew the whole truth,that it was more important to him to lie to HER than lying to the cops.

    What if it's the other way around though?
    What if he didn't even have a clue?
    He DOES have a soft side,especially when talking about JB,he seems to be genuine when saying he really loved her (or maybe he's just a sick manipulative pervert and I am a fool).
    Is it REALLY possible that HE was the one fooled?
    He had no problem calling the cops over (it was HER who called the friends).Maybe he did indeed want to leave town outta fear at first,wanting to protect his family. (these are two things that maybe a guilty person wouldn't do?dunno)

    I still can't believe that a father who already lost one daughter and suffered so much ( I DO believe he was devastated after Beth died) would forgive a crazy psycho wife and would let her raise his remaining son.That's why I'm thinking,maybe he never knew what she really did?Maybe he only suspected but denied it(it's sometimes easier to live in denial)?

    Dunno,just some thoughts.....I am no profiler so maybe I am wrong in how I feel about him?Maybe I am "reading" him wrong?
    The rice is already cooked...

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    I always thought that if RDI it was probably JR or BR who did it.
    But I always admit I can be wrong so I was thinking lately,hey maybe I am wrong,what if indeed PDI.
    If PDI,I still am convinced that this wasn't just about bedwetting but about something more serious (maybe MSBP,severe depression,attention seeking/rage/jealousy,etc).

    Now one of the reasons I lean towards JDI (possible prior abuse is another strong one) is JR's behaviour.I always had this strong gut feeling that he is LYING.He is also a very smart man,I don't think anyone disagrees.Also way too calm and collected.And very cautious when answering questions.

    One of my JDI theories even implies that part of his staging only meant to fool PR,that she didn't even knew the whole truth,that it was more important to him to lie to HER than lying to the cops.

    What if it's the other way around though?
    What if he didn't even have a clue?
    He DOES have a soft side,especially when talking about JB,he seems to be genuine when saying he really loved her (or maybe he's just a sick manipulative pervert and I am a fool).
    Is it REALLY possible that HE was the one fooled?
    He had no problem calling the cops over (it was HER who called the friends).Maybe he did indeed want to leave town outta fear at first,wanting to protect his family. (these are two things that maybe a guilty person wouldn't do?dunno)

    I still can't believe that a father who already lost one daughter and suffered so much ( I DO believe he was devastated after Beth died) would forgive a crazy psycho wife and would let her raise his remaining son.That's why I'm thinking,maybe he never knew what she really did?Maybe he only suspected but denied it(it's sometimes easier to live in denial)?

    Dunno,just some thoughts.....I am no profiler so maybe I am wrong in how I feel about him?Maybe I am "reading" him wrong?
    Tough to say, maddy. It may be one of those things. I know that if you followed every gut feeling nothing would ever get done, but sometimes those feelings are there for a reason.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    I always thought that if RDI it was probably JR or BR who did it.
    But I always admit I can be wrong so I was thinking lately,hey maybe I am wrong,what if indeed PDI.
    If PDI,I still am convinced that this wasn't just about bedwetting but about something more serious (maybe MSBP,severe depression,attention seeking/rage/jealousy,etc).

    Now one of the reasons I lean towards JDI (possible prior abuse is another strong one) is JR's behaviour.I always had this strong gut feeling that he is LYING.He is also a very smart man,I don't think anyone disagrees.Also way too calm and collected.And very cautious when answering questions.

    One of my JDI theories even implies that part of his staging only meant to fool PR,that she didn't even knew the whole truth,that it was more important to him to lie to HER than lying to the cops.

    What if it's the other way around though?
    What if he didn't even have a clue?
    He DOES have a soft side,especially when talking about JB,he seems to be genuine when saying he really loved her (or maybe he's just a sick manipulative pervert and I am a fool).
    Is it REALLY possible that HE was the one fooled?
    He had no problem calling the cops over (it was HER who called the friends).Maybe he did indeed want to leave town outta fear at first,wanting to protect his family. (these are two things that maybe a guilty person wouldn't do?dunno)

    I still can't believe that a father who already lost one daughter and suffered so much ( I DO believe he was devastated after Beth died) would forgive a crazy psycho wife and would let her raise his remaining son.That's why I'm thinking,maybe he never knew what she really did?Maybe he only suspected but denied it(it's sometimes easier to live in denial)?

    Dunno,just some thoughts.....I am no profiler so maybe I am wrong in how I feel about him?Maybe I am "reading" him wrong?
    OMG Thank You so much for even questioning this. My problem right now is thinking about the dates that happened...Elizabeth was killed in 1992...Patsy was diagnosed in 1993. I just think that he lost his mind when his daughter died and then his wife was diagnosed with basically a death sentence. All his stress at work...the guy DETACHED. I think he just turned into something he never was. Did he kill JB? No. But he was there..before or during I don't think so but he sure was after. He's no dummy...making Patsy call 911. He knows those calls are recorded. He didn't kill JB but he knows what happened. He knows what the hell happened and so does Burke!

  4. #4
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    dunno if he just detached himself from everything that can cause pain or something but there is something else I've noticed.the way he behaves and talks in that tv interview for that religious channel (sorry,dunno where I have the link to it now). he really seems to have lost it.he talks like a fanatic.I've always wondered whether they just used all the religious stuff as an excuse or not but MAYBE this was his only way to cope with Beth's death.and MAYBE if PDI it was easier for him to live in denial and think that it is indeed up to God to judge and forgive and punish?yeah I guess this would make him a coward but it would explain somehow his behavior,dunno.not every person is tough enough to face the truth and deal with the consequences...
    The rice is already cooked...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingBreade View Post
    OMG Thank You so much for even questioning this. My problem right now is thinking about the dates that happened...Elizabeth was killed in 1992...Patsy was diagnosed in 1993. I just think that he lost his mind when his daughter died and then his wife was diagnosed with basically a death sentence. All his stress at work...the guy DETACHED. I think he just turned into something he never was. Did he kill JB? No. But he was there..before or during I don't think so but he sure was after. He's no dummy...making Patsy call 911. He knows those calls are recorded. He didn't kill JB but he knows what happened. He knows what the hell happened and so does Burke!
    If memory serves, didn't his mother also pass away right around that time? Seems like all the adult women in his life were dying.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  6. #6
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    Dunno if this is the right place but as the thread is about JR hear goes:

    In a telephone conversation with Det. Steve Thomas, Melinda Ramsey's current boyfriend Long i think his surname was, told Det Thomas that JR had told him that he had found Jonbenets body at 11a.m. some 2 hours before he "found" her with Fleet White.
    When Det Thomas aske if this was Eastern or Mountain time Long replied well i assume it's his(JRs) 11a.m. so that would be Mountain. Any know what became of this??
    I say what i mean please or offend

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by smurf86 View Post
    Dunno if this is the right place but as the thread is about JR hear goes:

    In a telephone conversation with Det. Steve Thomas, Melinda Ramsey's current boyfriend Long i think his surname was, told Det Thomas that JR had told him that he had found Jonbenets body at 11a.m. some 2 hours before he "found" her with Fleet White.
    When Det Thomas aske if this was Eastern or Mountain time Long replied well i assume it's his(JRs) 11a.m. so that would be Mountain. Any know what became of this??
    I recall that comment also. Like so much in this case, LE dropped the ball. Nothing more was made of the comment. Yes, it could be a different time zone, but JR lived in Boulder- why would he "translate" that into another time zone? Unless...he needed to "backtrack" his comments to make it SEEM like that is what he did. The fact is that JR was unaccounted for between 10 am and noon on Dec.26, according to erroneously stated that she thought he "went to get his ail". The thing is- WHY would a father waiting for kidnappers to call leave the house for ANY reason, let alone to get his mail???
    Of course, we do know the Rs were not expecting that call anyway, but the mail was delivered through a mail slot in the front door of the R home. They NEVER needed to go anywhere to get it.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    I always thought that if RDI it was probably JR or BR who did it.
    But I always admit I can be wrong so I was thinking lately,hey maybe I am wrong,what if indeed PDI.
    If PDI,I still am convinced that this wasn't just about bedwetting but about something more serious (maybe MSBP,severe depression,attention seeking/rage/jealousy,etc).

    Now one of the reasons I lean towards JDI (possible prior abuse is another strong one) is JR's behaviour.I always had this strong gut feeling that he is LYING.He is also a very smart man,I don't think anyone disagrees.Also way too calm and collected.And very cautious when answering questions.

    One of my JDI theories even implies that part of his staging only meant to fool PR,that she didn't even knew the whole truth,that it was more important to him to lie to HER than lying to the cops.

    What if it's the other way around though?
    What if he didn't even have a clue?
    He DOES have a soft side,especially when talking about JB,he seems to be genuine when saying he really loved her (or maybe he's just a sick manipulative pervert and I am a fool).
    Is it REALLY possible that HE was the one fooled?
    He had no problem calling the cops over (it was HER who called the friends).Maybe he did indeed want to leave town outta fear at first,wanting to protect his family. (these are two things that maybe a guilty person wouldn't do?dunno)

    I still can't believe that a father who already lost one daughter and suffered so much ( I DO believe he was devastated after Beth died) would forgive a crazy psycho wife and would let her raise his remaining son.That's why I'm thinking,maybe he never knew what she really did?Maybe he only suspected but denied it(it's sometimes easier to live in denial)?

    Dunno,just some thoughts.....I am no profiler so maybe I am wrong in how I feel about him?Maybe I am "reading" him wrong?
    madeleine,
    PDI, JDI, BDI? Sometimes things look simpler when you take two steps back.

    If JonBenet's death was an accident staged to look like an abduction it could be any Ramsey that did it.

    In this scenario PDI really does go to the top of the suspect list.

    BDI , well maybe, with Mom and Dad covering for him, of the three suspects he is the weakest IMO, his age does not fit the profile of JonBenet's injuries.

    JDI possibly, after an accident, maybe, but why no call to 911 for medical assistance, whats to hide, a family that could afford to purchase their local medical practise?

    So in a conventional domestic homicide involving a child either of the parents or both are usually the main suspects.

    But JonBenet's death has an added component that differentiates it from thos other cases. She was sexually molested just prior to her death, this was likely to be the factor that led to her death, and the need to stage an abduction, otherwise no abuse would surely have allowed 911 to have been called for medical assistance?

    With Burke relocated to Fleet White's house, John Ramsey could not have known what would become of him, since he was out of his immediate control, never mind the possibility of John and Patsy being arrested at any point.

    After engineering JonBenet's discovery John and Patsy intended leaving ASAP for Atlanta, phoning such intructions to his pilot. This was part of John's master plan, as was relocating Burke. So in the event JonBenet had not been discovered and the police left the house to search locally, I reckon John and Patsy would have flown interstate to Atlanta, leaving JonBenet to decompose and Burke with Fleet White. Likely to follow on another flight as quickly as could be arranged.

    John Ramsey's behaviour towards Burke suggests Burke did not assault JonBenet's, otherwise why leave Burke alone and vulnerable to an impulsive emotional confession, in the absence of his parents?

    So it looks like it is PDI or JDI, and although it could be PDI most of the evidence appears to suggest JDI, due to the circumstances surrounding JonBenet's death and her highly sexualised short life. IMO, it looks like this is a classic sexually motivated homicide staged to look like something else.

    The other possibility is a PDI that occurs after another person molests JonBenet, and this person then hides as much as possible of this both from Patsy and the police by invoking the wine-cellar staging complete with a version of events about the previous nights sequence of events. Which we know are contradicted both by Burke and the Pineapple.

    That Patsy was ignorant about the location of the size-12's suggests John did not share this information with her, why so?


    So in order of likelyhood , for me, its JDI, PDI, JDI+PDI, BDI.


    .

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post


    John Ramsey's behaviour towards Burke suggests Burke did not assault JonBenet's, otherwise why leave Burke alone and vulnerable to an impulsive emotional confession, in the absence of his parents?



    .
    excellent point,didn't think of it.

    I always thought that BDI is the only thing that really explains the parents weird behavior,them sticking together (statistics show in such cases they usually break up,the guilt,it's your fault,no,your fault,etc)

    But you are totally right,if BDI,they wouldn't have sent him(exposed) over to the Whites .

    And IMO the staging would have been less complicated and totally different if BDI and they covered for him.

    Guess BDI just dropped a few places down my scenarios list,thanks.
    The rice is already cooked...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    IMO, it looks like this is a classic sexually motivated homicide staged to look like something else.

    The other possibility is a PDI that occurs after another person molests JonBenet...

    .
    That's a very good point, because for all the suggestions that have been made about the sexual assault being part of the staging, the reality is that the sexual assault was not emphasised at all, she was redressed and wiped, the sexual assault was in fact hidden.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ottavi View Post
    That's a very good point, because for all the suggestions that have been made about the sexual assault being part of the staging, the reality is that the sexual assault was not emphasised at all, she was redressed and wiped, the sexual assault was in fact hidden.
    Ottavi,
    Precisely so. This along with other Ramsey behaviour, and their fake version of events all combine to suggest a staged crime-scene.

    This does not rule out PDI, but since fibers from John's shirt were found on her genital area, it appears he was the one who wiped her down?

    Speculating, it seems it must have been Patsy's idea to apply the ligature as a garrote. I cannot see John telling Patsy to do this in the context of sexual abuse, not unless she was a co-conspirator e.g. did JonBenet complain to Patsy, who was met with a volent response, leading to either a head injury or throat compression. Not intended to be mortal, but eventually led to her death.


    I have the impression JonBenet was cleaned up somewhere upstairs, then a discussion of what was to be done followed. Either JonBenet was staged say in her bedroom as a victim of a sexual predator or/and this was later re-staged to become the wine-cellar abduction scenario?

    .
    Last edited by UKGuy; 11-19-2011 at 10:04 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    excellent point,didn't think of it.

    I always thought that BDI is the only thing that really explains the parents weird behavior,them sticking together (statistics show in such cases they usually break up,the guilt,it's your fault,no,your fault,etc)

    But you are totally right,if BDI,they wouldn't have sent him(exposed) over to the Whites .

    And IMO the staging would have been less complicated and totally different if BDI and they covered for him.

    Guess BDI just dropped a few places down my scenarios list,thanks.
    madeleine,
    Sure, its the little things in this case that make it interesting. Once you recognize that John Ramsey's behaviour that fateful morning is not random or reactive, you can make inferences such as the one about: why send Burke to the White's, what is all that about?

    Another one is why bother wiping down JonBenet, whats all that about, its certainly nothing to do with the concept of undoing, since JonBenet's own mother callously asphyxiated her with the garrote. Consider the image mother wishes for a nice pristine, clean image of JonBenet, just as everyone remembers her, so she attaches a garrote formed from the paintbrush handle, used to evoke images in oil, around JonBenet's neck!

    The case against Burke is weak, its main purpose is to explain away the contradictory evidence, but if you take into account John's behaviour towards Burke, and some of Burke's own remarks e.g. he saw JonBenet walk into the house. This suggests to me that John and Patsy Ramsey had a game plan that morning, one part of was to relocate Burke, then move on to the next stage. Phoning the friends over was phase 2 of the diversion tactics. When John went missing that morning he was probably away checking for loose ends, moving evidence around, generally messing up the crime-scene. Consider JonBenet's photographs found down in the basement, who put them there and why? Would these not be better placed in John Ramsey's top bedroom dresser? After all he is the loving father who funds her sexualization via the pageants unthinkingly.


    .

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post

    I have the impression JonBenet was cleaned up somewhere upstairs, then a discussion of what was to be done followed. Either JonBenet was staged say in her bedroom as a victim of a sexual predator or/and this was later re-staged to become the wine-cellar abduction scenario?

    .
    Thats a good point, i think if she was staged in her room its possible that after they had written the RN moved JBR to the cellar to make the bungled kidnap more plausible.
    It could also be a possibility that JR removed burke to stop him contradicting what they eventually told the police i.e. she` was sleeping and was carried to bed(burke told officials she was awake) and that he was asleep when the 911 took place( burkes voice is apparently heard on said 911 tape).
    I say what i mean please or offend

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by smurf86 View Post
    Thats a good point, i think if she was staged in her room its possible that after they had written the RN moved JBR to the cellar to make the bungled kidnap more plausible.
    It could also be a possibility that JR removed burke to stop him contradicting what they eventually told the police i.e. she` was sleeping and was carried to bed(burke told officials she was awake) and that he was asleep when the 911 took place( burkes voice is apparently heard on said 911 tape).
    smurf86,
    IMO, there was a prior staging, the remainder of which is likely to be the pink nightgown and barbie doll, or alternatively which was intended to replace the gap-top, why so?

    Well if this was done then there would be no requirement for such an elaborate fake version of events, since she is found in her bed clothes then presto, she must have been abducted from her bed.

    So it looks like the fake version of events was invoked to explain away part of a prior staging, a part that has JonBenet still wearing her gap-top, e.g. dead in bed in her gap-top? Oh we have to tell everyone we just put her to bed like that!

    Whichever way you spin it, JonBenet was likely in her day clothes when assaulted.

    Another inference that you can draw from the staged crime-scene is that since it was not completed then the wine-cellar scenario must have been a real last minute decision?


    The counter argument is that the pink nightgown represents JonBenet's original bed clothes and its the gap-top that is replacing it, so why mess up all your staging big time, and leave it for the police to find?

    Answer: It was really last minute stuff, right down to the wire, when stuff simply had to be hidden, just dumped out of sight, and hey if they find JonBenet, then we are caught, so does it matter if they find the barbie doll and nightgown?

    If you consider the restraints found on JonBenet and ask, why and when, then time constraints seem the logical reason?

    So all in all I reckon 30 minutes at most was devoted to the wine-cellar staging?



    .

  15. #15
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    I only have one problem with a JDI scenario where PR is not in on it with him from the get-go:

    I don't believe that JR would have known about the size 12 bloomies bought for Jenny, wrapped and ready to send, in the basement (or wherever - the only place we can be sure they weren't kept was in JonBenet's underwear drawer.)

    JR was pretty much oblivious to what was going on around him in his own house if it wasn't directly affecting him - more or less biting him in the butt. He left things like buying gifts for Patsy's niece and getting them wrapped and ready to mail up to Patsy.

    I'm not even sure he would have known there were alternate bloomies, although not in JonBenet's size, brand-new and still in the package...much less where to find them.

    All of that sounds like Patsy's hand in the mix. I'd be willing to bet that all JR knew was that JonBenet needed to be dressed in different clothes before they called 911 and a half-dozen friends over.

    I can see JR using his shirt to wipe JonBenet's body off, but then I gotta think he left the fetching of new bloomies and dressing of JonBenet in them plus long underwear up to Patsy. Otherwise his DNA would be on her clothes and not Patsy's.

    Just my opinion.
    Where is Trenton Duckett?

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