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Thread: Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #3

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    Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #3

    Please continue discussion here on the Penn State / Sandusky / Second Mile case.

    Links of interest:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153837"]Thread #1[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154517"]Thread #2[/ame]


    Case timeline (huffingtonpost.com)

    Grand jury presentment (.pdf)

    Who knew what about Jerry Sandusky? There were many missed chances to investigate as early as 1995 (pennlive.com)

    Also of interest: the case involving the disappearance
    of former Centre County DA Ray Gricar is here:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154352"]PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7[/ame]

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    There's those two words again:

    The hate mail sent to black students had nothing to do with Sandusky’s proclivities, but the two incidences shared something in common: both were ultimately covered up by the university.

    Penn State and Joe Paterno were not willing to allow bad publicity to ruin the university’s image

    Concerned black students met with Paterno back in 2001.....Wolf recalls Paterno as almost emotionless

    Ultimately, a black man’s dead body was found by police near Penn State as one of the death threats said it would. And some black students had to attend their graduation the following May with bulletproof vests on in fear of their life.

    http://newsone.com/nation/theloop21/...lack-students/
    Paterno emotionless....bulletproof vests....That's stone cold, JoePa.


    But there is nothing covered up that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known. Accordingly, whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed upon the housetops. Luke 12, 2-3


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    http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports...etic-director/

    The school announced in a press release that David Joyner has been named acting athletic director. With the naming of Joyner, Sherburne will now will resume his old position of associate AD.

    Joyner, a Penn State graduate and former football player for Paterno, has been a member of the university’s Board of Trustees since 2000. He will suspend that membership, the release states, as he takes over the athletic department, presumably until either Curley returns or a full-time replacement is found.
    Always tell the truth. That way you don't have to remember what you said.--Mark Twain

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    I wanted to comment on part of ThoughtFox's post in Thread #2, about the Dr. Drew program. Below is the portion where I bolded the part I wanted to post about:


    The psychiatrist on the show said she believed Sandusky was enough of a narcissist that he believes he can control the message, when really he is giving out too much information.
    ------------

    Why is it considered giving out too much information, instead of giving out information? Giving out "too much" information to me implies that the psychiatrist thought that perhaps he should have shut up, and protected himself legally. Whereas, giving out information, would imply that the psychiatrist felt he was letting his true nature out.

    Anyone have anything else to say about this: giving out too much information

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    Quote Originally Posted by Concerned Papa View Post
    There's those two words again:
    Seems NOW Penn State is making every effort to cover up the cover up..JMHO
    "It's been clear from day one that the contradicting statements from the family members are not the truth," said Capt. Johnny Greenwood, spokesman for the Putnam County Sheriff's Office.

    JUSTICE HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED AND HIDDEN IN THE LAW

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    Good heavens!!! Is there any way to find out the race and socioeconomic status of the children served at second mile? I was reading on scout.com and there was alot of speculation that the victims were most likely AA. Then there was an article where a former player ? stated that (paraphrased) "I never saw Sandusky with athletic looking kids, I saw him with kids who appeared to be vulnerable."

    Are any of JS's adopted children AA? How many of the S family's foster children were AA?

    I can't help but wonder if the victim found dead in the following link was a second mile victim.

    http://loop21.com/content/other-penn...black-students

    My apologies in advance if anyone is offended by my speculative post as I realize racial issues are a sensitive subject. However, we are already discussing the most sensitive of subjects, child rape, and my questions are mounting about JS with each news article that I read.

    I taught at risk and inner city children for years in the public school system and there was nothing that made the boys happier than when I allowed them a football and free play during recess!

    Someone questioned on the last thread if JS had a 'type'. IMO, JS's type is the most vulnerable, most economically disadvantaged, children to prey upon.

    MOO

    wm
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    Numbers,32:23

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    Quote Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda View Post
    Good heavens!!! Is there any way to find out the race and socioeconomic status of the children served at second mile? I was reading on scout.com and there was alot of speculation that the victims were most likely AA. Then there was an article where a former player ? stated that (paraphrased) "I never saw Sandusky with athletic looking kids, I saw him with kids who appeared to be vulnerable."

    Are any of JS's adopted children AA? How many of the S family's foster children were AA?

    I can't help but wonder if the victim found dead in the following link was a second mile victim.

    http://loop21.com/content/other-penn...black-students
    ----------
    I wondered that myself--what was his "type" of prey? There's a photograph in either Thread #1 or Thread #2, that shows some of the children in the Second Mile program. There appeared to be a group of children from varying racial/ethnic backgrounds.

    I wonder what the ethnic/racial background was for the children Sandusky brought with him to the games, overnight stays, home visits, etc.?

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    Hmmmm.... Interesting to see it in print.

    Can anyone grab a link to the story where 2nd mile got funding for new facitilies in State College? Where'd that funding come from. I don't remember.
    “The essence of the Liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment.” ~Bertrand Russell

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    Quote Originally Posted by concentric View Post
    ----------
    I wondered that myself--what was his "type" of prey? There's a photograph in either Thread #1 or Thread #2, that shows some of the children in the Second Mile program. There appeared to be a group of children from varying racial/ethnic backgrounds.

    I wonder what the ethnic/racial background was for the children Sandusky brought with him to the games, overnight stays, home visits, etc.?
    BBM

    I remember hearing it but don't have a link to back it up. Today work is getting in the way of sleuthing.
    “The essence of the Liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment.” ~Bertrand Russell

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    http://abcnews.go.com/US/jerry-sandu...ry?id=14961765

    The mother of the boy identified as Victim 1 in the Penn State sex abuse scandal said her son broke down in tears when he heard accused child molester Jerry Sandusky claim on television they were just "horsing around."
    The mother said she's angry to see Sandusky a free man while she and her son, who is now a teenager, feel they must hide to protect their anonymity.
    Sandusky can not give these victims back what he took away, their trust and innocence. He could step up and be a man for the first time in his life and affirm the truth.
    Always tell the truth. That way you don't have to remember what you said.--Mark Twain

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    About the race of the victims. I think someone said in the first thread (or maybe the second?) that all the victims who've come forward are slim and African American but they didn't say where they got their info from or anything else about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by concentric View Post
    I wanted to comment on part of ThoughtFox's post in Thread #2, about the Dr. Drew program. Below is the portion where I bolded the part I wanted to post about:


    The psychiatrist on the show said she believed Sandusky was enough of a narcissist that he believes he can control the message, when really he is giving out too much information.
    ------------

    Why is it considered giving out too much information, instead of giving out information? Giving out "too much" information to me implies that the psychiatrist thought that perhaps he should have shut up, and protected himself legally. Whereas, giving out information, would imply that the psychiatrist felt he was letting his true nature out.

    Anyone have anything else to say about this: giving out too much information
    I think the psychiatrist was saying that a narcissist would believe he was in total control of the message. He doesn't accurately interpret the consequences of letting out too much of his behavior, because he thinks whatever he does is A-OK. I don't think she was on his side legally, she just was observing behavior that is highly unusual...and very narcissistic.
    I believe in being a resolute voice for crime victims who can no longer speak for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScorpRising View Post
    Hmmmm.... Interesting to see it in print.

    Can anyone grab a link to the story where 2nd mile got funding for new facitilies in State College? Where'd that funding come from. I don't remember.
    UT OH!!

    Corbett Gave Second Mile $3 Million Grant

    Public records show Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Corbett approved a $3 million optional taxpayer grant to the Second Mile, the charity founded by Jerry Sandusky.

    It is part of matching funds for a proposed $9 million Second Mile building in State College, Pa.

    http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/sports/penn_state/corbett-gave-second-mile-$3-million-grant-111511
    Oh well, so much for the new playpen:

    State freezes $3 million grant to Second Mile (11-15-2011)

    The state has put a freeze on the $3 million grant The Second Mile was slated to get for its new State College learning center, the future of which seems uncertain. The nonprofit, founded by former PSU football coach Jerry Sandusky, had planned to build the 45,000-square-foot facility on a site near University Park Airport.

    http://www.wkva920.com/news.php
    Good Catch!

    "Where'd that funding come from? I don't remember....." Riggghhtttt


    But there is nothing covered up that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known. Accordingly, whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed upon the housetops. Luke 12, 2-3


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    Quote Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda View Post
    I can't help but wonder if the victim found dead in the following link was a second mile victim.

    http://loop21.com/content/other-penn...black-students
    I think it needs to be looked at. While it may not have been a victim, it could have been a witness, a threat to keep the silence, a relative to a victim, or totally unrelated. It needs to be looked at.

    I don't know how to link the document I found but you can google "[Abbreviated] History of Hate at Penn State" and find it. It is an interesting read.

    In addition, Donald Conner, a Black State College resident’s body was found near the University Park campus just days after former Black Caucus President LaKeisha Wolf received a letter claiming responsibility for the murder of a black man whose body could be found in the region.
    Always tell the truth. That way you don't have to remember what you said.--Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by concentric View Post
    I wanted to comment on part of ThoughtFox's post in Thread #2, about the Dr. Drew program. Below is the portion where I bolded the part I wanted to post about:


    The psychiatrist on the show said she believed Sandusky was enough of a narcissist that he believes he can control the message, when really he is giving out too much information.
    ------------

    Why is it considered giving out too much information, instead of giving out information? Giving out "too much" information to me implies that the psychiatrist thought that perhaps he should have shut up, and protected himself legally. Whereas, giving out information, would imply that the psychiatrist felt he was letting his true nature out.

    Anyone have anything else to say about this: giving out too much information
    I didn't phrase my post correctly because I was tired, I guess.

    Dr. Drew was the one who kept saying Sandusky shouldn't be talking on TV and his lawyer should make him shut up.

    He also worried that Sandusky might kill himself because now he has made himself look even more guilty as he waffled and almost couldn't deny his sexual attraction to boys in the Costas interview.

    The psychiatrist on the show said she thought Sandusky was too much of a Narcissist to kill himself, which is also why he keeps talking in an effort to control the situation.

    But I think both Dr. Drew and the psychiatrist agreed that Sandusky was talking because he really doesn't know what is normal or acceptable, and thinks he can talk his way out of this.

    I'm the proud mother of a new attorney!
    It's better to know some of the questions than all of the answers. ~ James Thurber
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing ~ Edmund Burke
    Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. ~ Mark Twain

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    Dr. Drew transcript, November 15
    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../ddhln.01.html

    PINSKY: First of all, I don`t know why his attorney let him have that interview.

    (snip)

    PINSKY: There`s also a peculiar quality of what the interview that Bob was asking very hard questions. I mean, I personally wouldn`t ask those questions. And I would be afraid the guy would kill himself if I exposed - I`m fearful for this guy`s well-being, Sandusky, right now, frankly.

    (snip)

    PINSKY: Michelle, hold on a second. There`s one other thing, though, he`s also - whenever Bob Costas asks him how he feels, his response is, "Well, how do you think I feel?" It`s not how he feels. You see he`s avoiding because he doesn`t feel anything maybe or he only feels the way people, you know, real sociopaths will only put out what they think other people want.

    GOLLAND: Well, that`s what he is. And I have to say, I don`t know if he`s going to kill himself. Because there may be enough narcissism in him that, you know, narcissist don`t like to kill themselves, they just want to prove themselves right.

    PINSKY: Except - except when their narcissistic shield is truly ruptured.

    I'm the proud mother of a new attorney!
    It's better to know some of the questions than all of the answers. ~ James Thurber
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing ~ Edmund Burke
    Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. ~ Mark Twain

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    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/9...his-postseason

    Any other year, bowl sites would kill to have the Nittany Lions play for them, but many may shy away this season.
    As you can see, the domino effect is starting to take place as the student-athletes did nothing wrong. There are 16 seniors on this team that may not be given the opportunity to play in a bowl game because of something somebody else did.
    The right thing for Penn State to do is just refuse to accept a bowl invitation and begin to work on the healing process. Clean house with the coaching staff, begin recruiting and find a new head coach to replace Joe Paterno. Although this is highly unlikely because Tom Bradley already said they are going to play a bowl game this season.
    They have the pox! Nobody wants it to rub off on them.
    Always tell the truth. That way you don't have to remember what you said.--Mark Twain

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    Good morning.


    From thread #2
    Thoughtfox:

    "Horsing Around" is one of the most juvenile excuses for bullying.
    I didn't mention this yesterday because I thought it might be too picayune but in the light of (a new) morning I decided to throw it into the mix.

    Yesterday, after hearing the words "horsing around" tossed around all day long in the news, I decided to look up the etymology of the phrase "horse around." As would be expected, most of the entries were in keeping with what Sandusky, his attorney, Paterno and (apparently) Schultz and Curley were trying to portray: to be active in a silly way (thefreedictionary.com); however, there is a darker meaning to the expression, as indicated in the book Watch your language! Mother Tongue and her Wayward Children (Robert M. Gorrell).

    From page 35: "To horse around often has sexual implications." http://books.google.com/books?id=dqy...page&q&f=false

    Also, from another site (see link below). There are four definitions/citations and the first three are sexual in nature.

    http://www.definition-of.com/horse%20around

    One reason I decided to bring this up today was based on what Mike Krzyzewski was quoted as having said in the NY Times blog about Paterno:

    "I think one thing you have to understand is that coach Paterno's 84 years old," Krzyzewski said, per Vin Bernstein of the New York Times. "I'm not saying that for an excuse or whatever. The cultures that he's been involved in both football - wise and socially, have been (seen?) immense changes and how social issues are handled in those generations are quite different. http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/201...fic-situation/

    Based on the above I looked for the meaning of "horse around" using 1940s as one of the search terms. One entry that came up was Cassell's Dictionary of Slang (Google books). Note the use of time periods in the definitions:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=5Gp...sexual&f=false

    I bring all this up for a couple of reasons. One being the use of doublespeak. I have wondered all along if this was Paterno's way of conveying an awful truth to Curley without coming out and using words such as sodomize, rape, molestation. If you look at the slang definition for the phrase throughout the years this becomes a distinct possibility (in my mind). Note: I am not excusing Paterno's actions in this matter on any level.

    Additionally, I wonder if the use of doublespeak in Sandusky's case isn't part of a splitting process, i.e.:

    It may be that child abusers, particularly those considered suitable for referral to a psychotherapy clinic, need to be seen to be leading normal lives in order to be in a position to carry out their acts, whether it be within the family or in social settings (for example as school-teachers, scoutmasters and so on). This may be facilitated by the extensive use of splitting — this is a mechanism whereby apparently contradictory attitudes can coexist. http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/179/6/482.full


    I guess one reason this case has caught my attention to the extent that it has is because my father was a head football coach. In fact, he was a head football coach born in the same year as Joe Paterno - 1926. As such, I have found myself looking at this situation through two different lenses - the first being my own, based on the social mores of the generation I'm a part of - and the second being a blurrier lens based on my observations over the years of a parent who was born the same year as Paterno and who spent many years in the same occupation. I have a feeling that's what Krzyzewski was getting at with his commentary about generational differences. He's more than a decade older than I am (and in the coaching profession) so he is probably even more acutely aware of it than I am.

    Again, none of that is an excuse for ignoring and/or sweeping such heinous acts under the blue and white rug of Penn State.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnoliaMom View Post
    I think it needs to be looked at. While it may not have been a victim, it could have been a witness, a threat to keep the silence, a relative to a victim, or totally unrelated. It needs to be looked at.

    I don't know how to link the document I found but you can google "[Abbreviated] History of Hate at Penn State" and find it. It is an interesting read.
    I agree! If anyone is keeping a timeline, please include this info as it may or may not be relavent. It never hurts to document these events as they unfold. I'll add this link to the media thread.

    wm
    ...and be sure your sin will find you out.

    Numbers,32:23

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    Lawyer Says Alleged Sandusky Victim Will Testify to Severe Sexual Assault

    Andreozzi said his client, now in his 20s, met Sandusky through Sandusky’s charity, the Second Mile. He said he had been around Sandusky for several years and was assaulted multiple times. Andreozzi has also advised other alleged victims in the case and said he was meeting with another potential victim this week.

    Andreozzi said he talked with his client after he had listened to Sandusky’s televised telephone interview. “He was absolutely more ready to follow through with this afterward,” Andreozzi said. “He wants him to know he fully intends to testify he was severely sexually assaulted by Mr. Sandusky.”
    bbm
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThoughtFox View Post
    I didn't phrase my post correctly because I was tired, I guess.

    Dr. Drew was the one who kept saying Sandusky shouldn't be talking on TV and his lawyer should make him shut up.

    He also worried that Sandusky might kill himself because now he has made himself look even more guilty as he waffled and almost couldn't deny his sexual attraction to boys in the Costas interview.

    The psychiatrist on the show said she thought Sandusky was too much of a Narcissist to kill himself, which is also why he keeps talking in an effort to control the situation.

    But I think both Dr. Drew and the psychiatrist agreed that Sandusky was talking because he really doesn't know what is normal or acceptable, and thinks he can talk his way out of this.
    BBM

    Good comments, ThoughtFox, and a perfect explanation of what you meant to say.

    I was a psych nurse for 28 yrs (recently took an early retirement incentive pkge ).

    Whenever we discussed narcissists & sociopaths, it was always mentioned how much they just aren't aware of what's "normal or acceptable behavior"...
    especially exaggerated nice, happy-go-lucky, fun loving personalities they have... which, BTW, is why they are so charismatic and likable.

    And why it is so easy to get caught up in the webs they spin. They really think everyone believes their outlandish tales & their lies.
    And above all, as you mentioned, they really think that ethical & legal rules do not pertain to them! Thus, why they think they did nothing wrong!

    And, of course, they are very hard to treat and rarely ever change. In fact, the only reason they are usually seen is they are court or family ordered to see a therapist.
    But, they almost always get into a debate/argument with their therapist over "there's nothing wrong with me" or "I didn't do anything wrong" or their S/O's complaint,
    that "he's driving me crazy" (passive/aggressiveness - AKA gaslighting). They rarely return to see the therapist after the initial visit.

    Last edited by peace9274; 11-16-2011 at 03:46 PM.

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    Penn State Scandal Emboldens Other Abuse Victims

    http://www.npr.org/2011/11/16/142369...-abuse-victims

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    Penn State "looking into" McQueary's assertion that he spoke to police in 2002
    Centre Daily Times
    Penn State spokeswoman Jill Shockey said university officials hadn't heard about the claims made by Mike McQueary in an e-mail obtained by The Associated Press Tuesday.

    "We were not aware of any of these previous statements, and we are looking into them," Shockey said Wednesday morning.
    Mike McQueary's statement to police doesn't say he stopped attack, notified police about Sandusky allegations
    The Patriot-News
    Penn State assistant football coach Mike McQueary never mentioned that he talked to police in 2002 after witnessing an alleged sexual assault by Jerry Sandusky of a young boy, according to a hand-written statement McQueary gave to police during the recent grand jury investigation.

    The Patriot-News has viewed a copy of the statement and verified it through a source close to the investigation.

    He does not mention stopping the assault, and does not mention talking to any police officers in the following days, the statement says.
    bbm
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    Quote Originally Posted by peace9274 View Post
    BBM
    Whenever we discussed narcissists & sociopaths, it was always mentioned how much they just aren't aware of what's "normal or acceptable behavior"...
    especially exaggerated nice, happy-go-lucky, fun loving personalities they have... which, BTW, is why they are so charismatic and likable.

    And why it is so easy to get caught up in the webs they spin. They really think everyone believes their outlandish tales & their lies.
    And above all, as you mentioned, they really think that ethical & legal rules do not pertain to them! Thus, why they think they did nothing wrong!
    I'm well acquainted because my father-in-law is a classic narcissist. OMG. For example, he is so clueless that he shot a hawk on his property and was so proud of his hunting skill that he called a taxidermist, who informed him that it was against the law to kill a raptor and that he ought to turn him into the federal wildlife officials (but he didn't). Another time he thought it was okay to light a big fire on his farm even though we were in the middle of a huge drought, and it surprised him when the fire marshall showed up. All that matters is what he wants to do at that moment. He leased his property but never made much money, however he led everyone to believe he was a millionaire three times over.

    All of this may sound funny in a way, but I know the pain a Narcissist can cause because my husband and his mother and siblings suffered from this man. And he's almost a totally indifferent grandfather even while bragging about how he's going to help all his grandchildren. He can be light-hearted and sociable around strangers, but at home he is domineering, illogical, devious, cruel, and completely self-centered. My FIL can can only discuss things in light of how they affect him, him, him.

    I'm the proud mother of a new attorney!
    It's better to know some of the questions than all of the answers. ~ James Thurber
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing ~ Edmund Burke
    Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. ~ Mark Twain

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