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  1. #1
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    Dorli Rainey 84 yr old pepper sprayed at Occupy Seattle

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...occupy17m.html

    nomatter what anybody thinks of the Occupy Movement, this is out of control. we have the constitutional right to protest peacefully.
    "Love one another. As I have loved you, love one another." Jesus

  2. #2
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    snipped from article:
    Mayor Mike McGinn said he's sorry police pepper-sprayed peaceful Occupy Seattle
    demonstrators, after a photo of 84-year-old demonstrator Dorli Rainey's dripping face went viral. But the apology didn't satisfy protesters who say the police response has been "excessive."

    "To those engaged in peaceful protest, I am sorry that you were pepper-sprayed," McGinn said in a statement Wednesday. The mayor said he has spoken with Rainey.
    "Love one another. As I have loved you, love one another." Jesus

  3. #3
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    The confrontations began Tuesday afternoon after demonstrators blocked downtown intersections
    Police said they used pepper spray to disperse a crowd in Belltown, while arresting a 17-year-old girl who swung a stick at officers
    Who defines 'peaceful'? Who controls the troublemakers in the crowd?

  4. #4
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    the Belltown one where they pepper sprayed the 17yr old girl who swung at them was not in Seattle. when Ms Rainey was sprayed, there was no violence by protestors. this is just jmo from what i know about protests, but people at these actions plan to be arrested. when they see its time for the police to move in, the ones who are not going to be arrested, leave. the ones who plan to be arrested dig in and peacefully wait. if all goes right, the police do their job peacefully and the folks are arrested without any trouble. that is how its supposed to happen.
    as for EGirl's question about who controls the trouble makers in the crowd, the answer is that everyone does. the protestors are non violent. if someone makes threats or becomes violent they wont be allowed to participate in the action and the police should deal with the trouble makes one by one. when the police do their part, as they have in other cities, then the actions go smoothly. there is a list of rules that govern the whole movement, and the Occupiers are following that rule list to the letter. a lot of the police departments are also following the rules. some of them are not, and it is scary.
    "Love one another. As I have loved you, love one another." Jesus

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGirl View Post
    Who defines 'peaceful'? Who controls the troublemakers in the crowd?
    bbm

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...0&t=1321540508
    "Love one another. As I have loved you, love one another." Jesus

  6. #6
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    I dont know that I believe that PD randomly sprayed pepper spray with no warning at peaceful protesters. JMVHO.
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  7. #7
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    from your link, nanny-

    The confrontations began Tuesday afternoon after demonstrators blocked downtown intersections, delaying commuters. As far back as Oct. 8, police have followed a policy of keeping streets clear, by arrest if necessary.


    It appears to me that the protesters were given fair warning, and pepper spray was used when the crowd refused to disperse as PD demanded.

    Should PD ignore the protesters and recommend commuters take alternate routes rather than enforcing people's rights to drive on the roads?

    I would think, jmo, that the intent of the protesters was to cause a confrontation, peaceful or otherwise. I would also believe that the protesters are plugged in enough to know that forcing a confrontation in a way that prevents commuters from reaching their destinations will lead to an order to disburse.
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    “The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.”
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  8. #8
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    http://current.com/shows/countdown/v...ce-of-activism

    here is Dorli's story. i wasn't there, so i can't speak as an eye witness, but this is what she had to say about it.
    "Love one another. As I have loved you, love one another." Jesus

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by believe09 View Post
    from your link, nanny-



    It appears to me that the protesters were given fair warning, and pepper spray was used when the crowd refused to disperse as PD demanded.

    Should PD ignore the protesters and recommend commuters take alternate routes rather than enforcing people's rights to drive on the roads?

    I would think, jmo, that the intent of the protesters was to cause a confrontation, peaceful or otherwise. I would also believe that the protesters are plugged in enough to know that forcing a confrontation in a way that prevents commuters from reaching their destinations will lead to an order to disburse.
    yes, Believe, of course the intent is to cause confrontation, peaceful confrontation. that is what civil disobedience does. it forces the powerful to take notice of those of us who feel powerless, hopeless and helpless. of course the police shouldn't ignore the protestors, they aren't supposed to, they are supposed to arrest the ones who are getting arrested that day, and they can do that without using force against peaceful citizens who are exercising their rights. jmo
    "Love one another. As I have loved you, love one another." Jesus

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanny2five View Post
    yes, Believe, of course the intent is to cause confrontation, peaceful confrontation. that is what civil disobedience does. it forces the powerful to take notice of those of us who feel powerless, hopeless and helpless. of course the police shouldn't ignore the protestors, they aren't supposed to, they are supposed to arrest the ones who are getting arrested that day, and they can do that without using force against peaceful citizens who are exercising their rights. jmo
    So they should have arrested everyone? I have participated in many a peaceful protest in my day. We worked with LE. We marched and made a stir and occupied a number of public places. We made sure the media was there.

    We never drew pepper spray or arrests. We made our point. Just sayin.
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  11. #11
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    People have a right to protest.
    LE has a right to use what means they can to control them.

    If we're gonna put ourselfs out there, we can't cry foul when we get caught in the crossfire..

    Just sayin.. and, yeah, imho

    (LOL.. believe09 and I with twin "just sayin" posts!)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by believe09 View Post
    So they should have arrested everyone? I have participated in many a peaceful protest in my day. We worked with LE. We marched and made a stir and occupied a number of public places. We made sure the media was there.

    We never drew pepper spray or arrests. We made our point. Just sayin.
    imo they should arrest whoever is participating in the civil disobedience, and in a lot of cities that is exactly what they are doing without anybody being injured in any way. Occupy does not condone threats or violence and anybody doing those things should be dealt with as their actions warrant. on the other hand, people are being injured who are not even part of the protest.
    for instance, this man. he went down to observe the action in the capacity of a new york city councilman and was assaulted by le 2 blocks from the park. he was held for 17 hours without being allowed to call his lawyer.
    http://www.politickerny.com/2011/11/...l-street-raid/
    "Love one another. As I have loved you, love one another." Jesus

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanny2five View Post
    Occupy does not condone threats or violence and anybody doing those things should be dealt with as their actions warrant. on the other hand, people are being injured who are not even part of the protest.
    for instance, this man. he went down to observe the action in the capacity of a new york city councilman and was assaulted by le 2 blocks from the park. he was held for 17 hours without being allowed to call his lawyer.
    http://www.politickerny.com/2011/11/...l-street-raid/

    That's just not true.
    In a video posted on YouTube after protesters were evicted from Zuccotti Park, a demonstrator in the crowd says “On the 17th, we’re going to burn New York City to the ground.”

    Later in the video, he then goes on to say “No more talking. They’ve got guns, we’ve got bottles. They’ve got bricks, we’ve got rocks…in a few days you’re going to see what a Molotov cocktail can do to Macy’s.”

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/11/...zuccotti-park/

    They've got bricks?
    As for that man - it's called collateral damage. Whenever there's confrontation, there's a possibilty of someone, not involved, getting hurt. His injuries were caused by OW. Trying to portray OW as 'flower wearing butterfies of peace' isn't working cause we're not buying it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrackerSam View Post
    That's just not true.
    In a video posted on YouTube after protesters were evicted from Zuccotti Park, a demonstrator in the crowd says “On the 17th, we’re going to burn New York City to the ground.”

    Later in the video, he then goes on to say “No more talking. They’ve got guns, we’ve got bottles. They’ve got bricks, we’ve got rocks…in a few days you’re going to see what a Molotov cocktail can do to Macy’s.”

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/11/...zuccotti-park/

    They've got bricks?
    As for that man - it's called collateral damage. Whenever there's confrontation, there's a possibilty of someone, not involved, getting hurt. His injuries were caused by OW. Trying to portray OW as 'flower wearing butterfies of peace' isn't working cause we're not buying it.
    i will go look at that video. whoever uploaded it needs to be found and called to account for everyone involved and those people need to be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. that is not what Occupy is about. and as for Ydanis Rodriguez, he should not have gotten hurt and nobody else should have either. he certainly should not have gotten arrested as i am certain he carried some sort of official identification to prove he is a councilman with the right to be there to observe.
    "Love one another. As I have loved you, love one another." Jesus

  15. #15
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    Realistically, I am not sure how you round up and process hundreds of people blocking the streets...which is what the protestors are counting on of course.

    Let me make this clear-I support peaceful protest. I think there are a ton of reasons to take to the streets, certainly in the last 10 years.

    Occupy is not protesting the existence of LE, correct? Why not form a partership rather than something adversarial?
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