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Thread: Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #5

  1. #776
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    Quoted from Chorley8:

    <<< 4. On that note does anyone know how, when you are an executor, you find out where someone banked? Is there a central database so that, you know, you would be sure you had all their accounts? What about safety deposits, securities anything? Surely you don't just go around and ask? >>>


    My husband and I are the executors (when the time comes) for an elderly friend of ours. Yes.....we have all of her banking info, her yearly income tax statements, her yearly charitable contributions, a key to her house, her desire for her beloved pets......basically everything.
    Seeking justice for Audrey Gleave
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    *ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN OPINIONS UNLESS I GIVE A LINK OR REFER TO OTHERS*
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  3. #777
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    Limited Mobility? How could Audrey golf with limited mobility. She was short of breath from smoking and yet she still managed to golf. Or did she give up golfing - does anyone know?
    How can LV call Audrey reclusive, when Audrey went to her Coffee Club and golfed with her friends? Also shopped, and got about town. I don't believe Lv's term reclusive is one that I would use for her.

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  5. #778
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    Hamilton has generously opened arms to a "persecuted" group, some of whom pay attention to bank accounts...
    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/20.../20160686.html

    "The Canada Border Services Agency admits it's worried about "significant criminal activity" among Hungarian Roma - sometimes called Gypsies - who've made dubious refugee claims.

    "The information provided to the criminal investigations division indicates that individuals believed to be from the Roma community, and involved in criminal activity, most commonly engage in skimming fraud and cheque fraud,"


    snip

    "The CBSA report also says Toronto police have warned there "is an indication that local gangs may be developing" among the mass arrivals of young Roma refugee claimants"

    This is the more welcoming side..
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k0IRq4nSnA"]A Taste of Tolerance - YouTube[/ame]

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  7. #779
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    J.W.has a new book coming out that will include Audrey's case.
    [ame="http://www.amazon.ca/Deaths-Shadow-True-Tales-Homicide/dp/1459707443"]Death&#39;s Shadow: True Tales of Homicide: Amazon.ca: Jon Wells: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51E728kk10L.@@AMEPARAM@@51E728kk10L[/ame]

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  9. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chorley8 View Post
    ...

    I will cut this off but could go on and on on this issue: PK waiting by the car after finding her body.... if the police find a dead body in an unsecured house they get back-up. In such a relatively isolated spot how did he know he was safe? Where is all of this sang-froid coming from?
    Sorry for repeating myself (I've posted my response before; I know lots of folks don't agree but here it is anew): Pk has said that he didn't realize at first she was deceased; his initial thought was that she may have slipped on the ice. I know this is hard for many of us to believe, given that LE has called Audrey's murder an especially brutal one (I don't remember the exact wording). But we don't know if the savagery was immediately visible; there was a "sexual component" and indication that the killer made off with something "like a trophy" from the victim. That may not have been immediately visible to PK. And it is not unusual for people who encounter trauma to experience particular coping mechanisms; denial or refusal are classic responses. PK may not have been consciously able to recognize that Audrey was murdered --either because the material evidence did not indicate this except on close inspection OR because of psychic defensive mechanism. But something drove him out of her garage; at that moment, waiting outside, it would be reasonable to assume he was probably realizing she was gone.

    I don't know who is guilty or innocent in Audrey's death. But for my part, I don't see PKs actions here as specifically cause for suspicion.We all cope differently with trauma -- and yet denial or refusal to recognize the severity of particular conditions is not an atypical response.

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  11. #781
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    I do not think PK had anything to do with it. It was probably shock and disbelief that he experienced.
    I have a very strong feeling that Audrey made some money investment with a person, and found out that she was being duped, and it was probably that person whom she met in the garage.
    Wasn't it reported that she was missing a couple of bank statements at one time, thus,
    perhaps the theft of her mail from her mailbox, and damage to it?
    I strongly believe it had to do with MONEY.
    Didn't someone say that she took a fair amount of cash out each time she went to the tellers?
    Just wondering ------

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  13. #782
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamwatcher View Post
    I do not think PK had anything to do with it. It was probably shock and disbelief that he experienced.
    I have a very strong feeling that Audrey made some money investment with a person, and found out that she was being duped, and it was probably that person whom she met in the garage.
    Wasn't it reported that she was missing a couple of bank statements at one time, thus,
    perhaps the theft of her mail from her mailbox, and damage to it?
    I strongly believe it had to do with MONEY.
    Didn't someone say that she took a fair amount of cash out each time she went to the tellers?
    Just wondering ------
    I respectfully disagree that Audrey was duped. Especially by a stranger. Now.......if a friend/handiman/neighbour whom she had known for many years duped her.....then, I suppose it's possible.

    But duping Audrey seems very far-fetched to me. The woman was brilliant. Her intelligence was heads above many others. That's not to say she wasn't human; of course she was.

    But duped.....IMO, not a chance.



    And yes, I believe it was stated somewhere that she did take out large sums of money from her Credit Union. That would save her many trips to the Credit Union when she could withdraw a lot to see her through for many days/weeks. To me, that's not odd/unusual. It's simply practical.
    Seeking justice for Audrey Gleave
    -------------------------------------------
    *ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN OPINIONS UNLESS I GIVE A LINK OR REFER TO OTHERS*
    -------------------------------------------
    “The inspiration you seek is already inside you. Be silent and listen." ~ Rumi

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  15. #783
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    Okay, rather than duped, how about scammed. Brilliant people do fall for a smooth talker, especially when they personally know them.

    DW

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  17. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamwatcher View Post
    Okay, rather than duped, how about scammed. Brilliant people do fall for a smooth talker, especially when they personally know them.

    DW
    It's a matter of semantics then. Duped/scammed/taken for a ride/whatever ..... I could only go along with that notion IF it was done by a close friend/neighbour/one of the coffee group/the handiman.

    Of course, I could be completely wrong here.
    Seeking justice for Audrey Gleave
    -------------------------------------------
    *ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN OPINIONS UNLESS I GIVE A LINK OR REFER TO OTHERS*
    -------------------------------------------
    “The inspiration you seek is already inside you. Be silent and listen." ~ Rumi

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  19. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2soccermom View Post
    Sorry for repeating myself (I've posted my response before; I know lots of folks don't agree but here it is anew): Pk has said that he didn't realize at first she was deceased; his initial thought was that she may have slipped on the ice. I know this is hard for many of us to believe, given that LE has called Audrey's murder an especially brutal one (I don't remember the exact wording). But we don't know if the savagery was immediately visible; there was a "sexual component" and indication that the killer made off with something "like a trophy" from the victim. That may not have been immediately visible to PK. And it is not unusual for people who encounter trauma to experience particular coping mechanisms; denial or refusal are classic responses. PK may not have been consciously able to recognize that Audrey was murdered --either because the material evidence did not indicate this except on close inspection OR because of psychic defensive mechanism. But something drove him out of her garage; at that moment, waiting outside, it would be reasonable to assume he was probably realizing she was gone.

    I don't know who is guilty or innocent in Audrey's death. But for my part, I don't see PKs actions here as specifically cause for suspicion.We all cope differently with trauma -- and yet denial or refusal to recognize the severity of particular conditions is not an atypical response.
    Yes I don't strongly suspect PK either. On the other hand he himself said the police turned attention back to him and her immediate friends and PK himself said he thinks it is someone who knew Audrey well and he suggested he didn't pass the lie detector perfectly?

    The overall thing I was trying to get at is whether how much some of the people who say they like Audrey really liked her. And there is no crime in that obviously. I get the impression she rankled most people and enjoyed doing so to some extent. And there is no crime in that.

    Why slipped on the ice not a heart attack or stroke I assume because there was some blood?
    Discrepancy between PK and Hrab re obvious signs of violence: was she stabbed through her coat or was the coat put on afterwords OR was she actually killed elsewhere and the coat put on to hide the wounds and blood leakage driving her to her house. Lack of blood spatter on the car etc. is a problem so was she really killed in the garage? The coat is a problem does does anyone know if it was done up (important) and how long and thick it was (important).

    If we can trust PK as you suggest then I think either cause of death were the blows to the head and the stab wounds were post-mortem thus there was just some blood from the blow to the head and that is what he thought was a result of a fall. If we trust both PK and Hrab then it says something vital about the crime imo.

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  21. #786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chorley8 View Post
    Yes I don't strongly suspect PK either. On the other hand he himself said the police turned attention back to him and her immediate friends and PK himself said he thinks it is someone who knew Audrey well and [b]he suggested he didn't pass the lie detector perfectly?[b]

    PK told us that "there were discrepancies" in the polygraph and that he was questioned again. (Please look back at our previous posts about this).


    The overall thing I was trying to get at is whether how much some of the people who say they like Audrey really liked her. And there is no crime in that obviously. I get the impression she rankled most people and enjoyed doing so to some extent. And there is no crime in that.

    To be fair, AG was a teacher and certainly SOME students will have 'disliked' her and possibly other staff members. It happens in all careers.....to all of us!

    Why slipped on the ice not a heart attack or stroke I assume because there was some blood?
    Discrepancy between PK and Hrab re obvious signs of violence: was she stabbed through her coat or was the coat put on afterwords OR was she actually killed elsewhere and the coat put on to hide the wounds and blood leakage driving her to her house. Lack of blood spatter on the car etc. is a problem so was she really killed in the garage? The coat is a problem does does anyone know if it was done up (important) and how long and thick it was (important).

    Again......kindly see past posts. We discussed the coat, etc. at length.

    If we can trust PK as you suggest then I think either cause of death were the blows to the head and the stab wounds were post-mortem thus there was just some blood from the blow to the head and that is what he thought was a result of a fall. If we trust both PK and Hrab then it says something vital about the crime imo.
    My comments are contained within the quoted post.
    Seeking justice for Audrey Gleave
    -------------------------------------------
    *ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN OPINIONS UNLESS I GIVE A LINK OR REFER TO OTHERS*
    -------------------------------------------
    “The inspiration you seek is already inside you. Be silent and listen." ~ Rumi

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  23. #787
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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Stone_Unturned View Post
    My comments are contained within the quoted post.
    Thanks I will find the discussion concerning the coat for some reason can't recall it - I read through the threads all at once tough to remember everything along with everything else I need to remember! But thanks.

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  25. #788
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    My travel companion and myself drove past AG's home last week. It was a beautiful summer day on Indian Trail and it is a very desirable road to live on with many lovely homes and the landscape is so pretty.

    AG's home is being renovated by the new owners. My travel companion hasn't followed the case, however, felt strongly, after seeing the location of AG's home and how it was situated on Indian Trail, that AG was a target and I agree. This had to have been carried out by someone who knew AG and her comings and goings.

    The question is why? I also think it was related to money!

    IMO

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  27. #789
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    Apart from the dupe/scam thing I think dreamwatchers overall point that there could be something financial behind this that extends beyond the people discussed here something that is unknown is important to keep in mind.

    More likely to be be tandem with one of the people discussed but could be something completely unknown.

    Reading Rose of Sharon's post makes me want to ask those who think AG and SV are connected how they would respond to her post in terms of their theory - in other words what would bring someone to both Lynden and Orangeville. They look close enough on a map but those roads around Ancaster are little travelled and a bit lonely unless you live around there. Is it the fact of SV being found on the rural road?

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  29. #790
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2soccermom View Post
    Sorry for repeating myself (I've posted my response before; I know lots of folks don't agree but here it is anew): Pk has said that he didn't realize at first she was deceased; his initial thought was that she may have slipped on the ice. I know this is hard for many of us to believe, given that LE has called Audrey's murder an especially brutal one (I don't remember the exact wording). But we don't know if the savagery was immediately visible; there was a "sexual component" and indication that the killer made off with something "like a trophy" from the victim. That may not have been immediately visible to PK. And it is not unusual for people who encounter trauma to experience particular coping mechanisms; denial or refusal are classic responses. PK may not have been consciously able to recognize that Audrey was murdered --either because the material evidence did not indicate this except on close inspection OR because of psychic defensive mechanism. But something drove him out of her garage; at that moment, waiting outside, it would be reasonable to assume he was probably realizing she was gone.

    I don't know who is guilty or innocent in Audrey's death. But for my part, I don't see PKs actions here as specifically cause for suspicion.We all cope differently with trauma -- and yet denial or refusal to recognize the severity of particular conditions is not an atypical response.
    But PK when asked here (assuming it is him) said that the sexual component was readily apparent in the crime scene.

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  31. #791
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    I get the impression that Audrey had friends and acquaintances, but they did not necessarily know each other.
    Example Lv and Pk lived not too far from each other, but they were not aware of it. The neighbours referred to PK as a handiman, Audrey's words to them?
    However, he was also a friend.
    It is entirely possible to me that there were a few people of whom Audrey never talked about. Quite possibly a person whom she gave money to invest.
    She rarely told tales out of school on herself, and probably never told tales out of school on others. She kept her relationships seperate. ie the retired teachers at the coffee club. The golf club etc., her neighbour across the street, and on it went.
    So it is possible that there are a few more people, or a person whom she knew , and she never mentioned him/ them.
    I doubt if Audrey would ever disclose her finances to any of these people, and may not have disclosed her finances to any investor - that is if she did invest. She was murdered over money. Someone owed her money.
    Anyhow, at this time, I can't think of any other motive. Note that nothing of value was missing. ie her car. How could someone who knew her, murder her, and get caught with her car?
    The dogs - she left them in the house. I think in Audrey's mind, the conversation was about to take place in her house, (that is why she left the dogs in the house)so she let him into the garage, with the intent of bringing him into the kitchen, but she never got any further than the garage
    Why no further than the garage? Because the killer knew that her dogs were in the house and knew that they were very protective of her.
    Last edited by dreamwatcher; 09-05-2012 at 01:59 AM. Reason: to add last paragraph

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  33. #792
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    I agree with you about keeping people separate and I have given one example earlier from the memorial site of someone thanking her for allowing them into her home.

    Your theory: if it is a regular investment surely LE would know this by now. If it was something irregular they could simply not pay her and it you would think it would be Audrey wanting to kill them?

    Your point about there being possible players in this we don't know about however is a very very good one.

    At this point I am thinking more that it is in tandem with or in competition with someone already mentioned.

    One reason for the will being rushed through and the house being sold so quickly could be that there was an expectation someone was going to come forward with another document, another will. Whether or not the will that was used is real or not. Why the unseemly rush?

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  35. #793
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    I think if one looks closely at the last names of individuals mentioned, you may find an "investment type" there -although I don't really know.
    Just guessing on my part.

    We have a case in my province where a disabled woman was murdered, by a family friend, who invested her money (insurance payout for her disability due to a car crash). He spent it, and couldn't pay it back. He owned an investment company.

    He murdered her by way of sending her a parcel which exploded when she opened it.

    So, it does happen.
    Last edited by dreamwatcher; 09-05-2012 at 04:19 PM.

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  37. #794
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    Sorry to go back to this a moment, concerning scams, 'old country" ect. but wanted to post this news.I agree that AG was probably too swift to be scammed and surely swift enough to spot and complain about scammers....
    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2.../20171181.html
    TORONTO - An international Roma crime ring based just east of the city has been dismantled, police say.

    Project Mansfield, which began in November 2011, has led to 34 suspects being arrested and 263 charges laid"

    snip
    "The Roma cell was recruiting people from Romania to come to Ontario, and the investigation has identified more than 400 people associated with this crime organization.

    Police said there were four common methods of distraction-style thefts or frauds targeting stores and people, particularly senior citizens"

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  39. #795
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    Unhappy

    Time will tell (hopefully) if this murder was for financial gain, or financial abuse.

    Is this investigation still ongoing? When was the last time the police said anything to the public, re progress?
    Is this a cold case?

    Has anyone heard anything?

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  41. #796
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    http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/arti...tobicoke-homes
    "A 62-year-old woman was sleeping in her home at Bloor St. W. and Islington Ave. when the man broke in and sexually assaulted her at 3:10 a.m. The man fled shortly afterward.

    About 20 minutes later, a 49-year-old woman living in the Royal York Rd. and Norseman St. area was awake when she saw the man attempting to enter her home. Police say it is not clear whether she was assaulted. The man fled.

    A short time later, at Royal York Rd. and The Queensway, a 70-year-old woman was asleep in her home when the man broke in and sexually assaulted her. The man again fled afterward"

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  43. #797
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    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4528675/
    The suspect in these sexual assaults and break-ins is described as about five-foot-eight with a thin build. Police believe he is between 20 to 25 years old. When he was last seen, he was wearing dark clothing with a white cloth or T-shirt that covered his face but exposed his eyes. Police released a grainy security camera image of the suspect, where a long, white cloth is covering his face.

    It is not known at this time if the man and his victims were known to each other before the assaults occurred, said Constable Tony Vella, spokesman with the Toronto Police Service.

    “It’s obviously planned. Obviously, the circumstances are quite aggravating,” Constable Vella said

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  45. #798
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    Thanks to WSer Otto, for this interesting link.
    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...urrentPage=all

    "Once, Douglas tells us, he drove down to the local police station and offered his services in the case of an elderly woman who had been savagely beaten and sexually assaulted. The detectives working the crime were regular cops, and Douglas was a bureau guy, so you can imagine him perched on the edge of a desk, the others pulling up chairs around him.

    “ ‘Okay,’ I said to the detectives. . . . ‘Here’s what I think,’ ” Douglas begins. “It’s a sixteen- or seventeen-year-old high school kid. . . . He’ll be disheveled-looking, he’ll have scruffy hair, generally poorly groomed.” He went on: a loner, kind of weird, no girlfriend, lots of bottled-up anger. He comes to the old lady’s house. He knows she’s alone. Maybe he’s done odd jobs for her in the past. Douglas continues:


    I pause in my narrative and tell them there’s someone who meets this description out there. If they can find him, they’ve got their offender"

    Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...#ixzz265RoSaYe

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  47. #799
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    Dotr: that is an interesting article, I've read through it briefly, but will re-read when I have more time. But very very interesting.
    ...

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  49. #800
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    library

    Does anyone know anything however trivial about Audrey's use of libraries. I know just that she frequented Lynden library. There is something I am trying to link up to someone so anything would help.

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