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Thread: Legless man denied wheelchair - impairment may not be permanent

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    Legless man denied wheelchair - impairment may not be permanent

    A man from Nyköping in eastern Sweden has been denied a power wheelchair despite having had both of his legs amputated as the local health authority remained "uncertain if the impairment was permanent".


    http://www.thelocal.se/37678/20111201/#

    HUH? Is this what our health care will look like soon?

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    What???

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrackerSam View Post
    A man from Nyköping in eastern Sweden has been denied a power wheelchair despite having had both of his legs amputated as the local health authority remained "uncertain if the impairment was permanent".


    http://www.thelocal.se/37678/20111201/#

    HUH? Is this what our health care will look like soon?
    That IS what our health care looks like now. See, there the government denied this man a power chair. Here, we have private insurers making those decisions and most, despite our payment to them each month, deny us such "amenities":

    Consumer advocates say health insurance companies often write policies in a way that gives them flexibility to deny claims.
    "In black and white in that policy it says we will determine what coverage to provide," said Gail Shearer of Consumer's Union. "That doesn't give a lot of power to the consumer. That's one enormous loophole."
    Instead they offered the Russells a manual wheelchair, which Liam couldn't manage to use on his own.
    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/TheLaw/ins...5#.Tt0QzFbgynA
    Every day, thousands of Americans and their doctors fight with insurers for approval of a drug, a test, or a treatment.
    It is a fight almost every American has come to know on one level or another.
    What happens when an insurer says a lifesaving treatment is unproven, but a doctor thinks the evidence is there? And a patient's life hangs in the balance?
    http://articles.philly.com/2011-09-1...nce-blue-cross
    .
    Denial of a health claim is the top reason consumers file complaints with state insurance officials.
    Of the 3,159 complaints received by the Ohio Department of Insurance last year and through Nov. 22 of this year, 43 percent came from people who were unhappy that their insurer refused to pay a medical bill, according to a Dispatch analysis
    http://www.dispatch.com/content/stor...ur-action.html

    Today Paul and Maria Van Nocker, along with their five-year-old son Kyler, filed a complaint against Harrisburg-based HealthAmerica insurance company on the grounds that the company breached its obligations and duties when it denied coverage of a potentially life-saving cancer treatment for Kyler.

    "The doctors told us that Kyler needed this treatment to save his life, but HealthAmerica said it wouldn't cover it," Paul Van Nocker said. "That is unacceptable. We will use every resource available to get him coverage for this treatment and we won't stop until HealthAmerica does the right thing."
    http://www.24-7pressrelease.com/pres...son-136908.php

    The difference is, in countries with socialized medical systems, life saving treatment is rarely ever denied. It's the non-life threatening things that sometimes can be more problematic to get, like power chairs. (Note there is a dearth of MSM articles about such denials in Europe or the former British protectorate, but TONS about such denials in the U.S.A.)

    Here, we not only don't get the non-life threatening things like power chairs, we also don't get the life-saving ones.

    Oh, and by the way? People in Sweden, Canada, Norway, Australia, Holland, New Zealand, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Denmark - those commie countries? They are allowed to have private insurance as well. So, if they are not happy with the government regulated or funded health insurance that is free to them, they are able to pad it with private insurance in the event something like this may occur.

    But, having extensive family and friends living in Australia, New Zealand, Austria, Holland and Spain, I do not know one who carries private insurance. They gripe at times, but when comparing the systems, I laugh at their complaints when compared to ours. They seem much more satisfied than we are.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


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    I agree our health care is no better at this time and often is far worse. An uninsured citizen of the US would likely be denied any of the services he is receiving from the prosthetics clinic in his country.

    His disability not being permanent is, IMO, based on the fact that he is expected to be able to walk once he is fitted with prostheses.

    What I do not understand fully is why he turned down an electric wheelchair that he did qualify for. He claimed he would not be able to move the chair without someone pushing it but electric wheelchairs I have seen are designed specifically so that the person can get around on their own without the chair needing to be pushed. I really do not get why this Permobile thing he wants will work without assistance while a standard electric chair would not.

    I sympathize with this man for the loss of his legs and with that his freedom to be ambulatory. I just did not get enough info from the article to understand why he feels the need for this fancy (likely mega-expensive) Permobile chair rather than the electric wheelchair that he was eligible for. I mean, it's not like they were only qualifying him for a manual wheelchair which would definitely require someone to push him wherever he needs to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by krkrjx View Post
    I agree our health care is no better at this time and often is far worse. An uninsured citizen of the US would likely be denied any of the services he is receiving from the prosthetics clinic in his country.

    His disability not being permanent is, IMO, based on the fact that he is expected to be able to walk once he is fitted with prostheses.

    What I do not understand fully is why he turned down an electric wheelchair that he did qualify for. He claimed he would not be able to move the chair without someone pushing it but electric wheelchairs I have seen are designed specifically so that the person can get around on their own without the chair needing to be pushed. I really do not get why this Permobile thing he wants will work without assistance while a standard electric chair would not.

    I sympathize with this man for the loss of his legs and with that his freedom to be ambulatory. I just did not get enough info from the article to understand why he feels the need for this fancy (likely mega-expensive) Permobile chair rather than the electric wheelchair that he was eligible for. I mean, it's not like they were only qualifying him for a manual wheelchair which would definitely require someone to push him wherever he needs to go.
    I think those electric ones don't have the maneuverability of the power chairs. They may require some assistance getting around corners and up ramps and things. I'm not sure.

    And you are probably right about why they classified the lack of legs as not being "permanent", but it is very ridiculous IMO. And would be funny if it was not so sad. It is not easy for an elderly man to get around on prosthetic legs all day.

    I know those chairs are very expensive, but give him the darn chair already!

    Interestingly, though, I'd bet my last dollar that those who scoff at Sweden's system for denying this man a costly power chair would howl if it was their tax dollars that were paying for it. They would likely scream that he should pay for it out of pocket or deal with a regular wheel chair or an electric chair. Or they would say that the government shouldn't pay for anything at all.

    I guess it is much better to have private insurers deny services than to have tax supported health care systems do the very same thing.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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    Oh, I agree it would be difficult to get around on two leg prostheses. Maybe getting around your home would be about all one could expect. Or getting to and from a car. I do not see anyone not having difficulty being active with two prosthetic legs. And I agree the man should have been approved for his chair. I just do not agree that their health care system is more lacking than what Americans have to deal with. Even citizens with health insurance in the US would have difficulty getting a specialized chair approved, or even a standard electric wheelchair for that matter. Certianly most citizens with no insurance would be SOL here, no matter what their needs.

    Perhaps these Permobile chairs are more in line with the Hover-round type scooters we see in the US than an actual wheelchair. IMO, any wheelchair with the huge wheels is difficult to live with--not easy to get in and out of a vehicle and not easy to maneuver into and out of an elevator, for example.

    I think this case is a prime example of why situations have to be looked at on an individual basis rather than the "one size fits all" approach that we usually see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    Interestingly, though, I'd bet my last dollar that those who scoff at Sweden's system for denying this man a costly power chair would howl if it was their tax dollars that were paying for it. They would likely scream that he should pay for it out of pocket or deal with a regular wheel chair or an electric chair. Or they would say that the government shouldn't pay for anything at all.

    I guess it is much better to have private insurers deny services than to have tax supported health care systems do the very same thing.
    I'll take that bet. Anyone who thinks things will be better when Obamacare kicks in has drunk the Kool-Aid.

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    I have 13 screws 2 plates and a bone graft in my left shoulder. Every joint in my body dislocates I am having new surgery on my right, what I have will eventually kill me. But I have been fighting for health care and disability for 5 years
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrackerSam View Post
    A man from Nyköping in eastern Sweden has been denied a power wheelchair despite having had both of his legs amputated as the local health authority remained "uncertain if the impairment was permanent".


    http://www.thelocal.se/37678/20111201/#

    HUH? Is this what our health care will look like soon?
    What? Do they think he is a lizard and will grow new legs?
    Just my opinion

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    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    I think those electric ones don't have the maneuverability of the power chairs. They may require some assistance getting around corners and up ramps and things. I'm not sure.

    And you are probably right about why they classified the lack of legs as not being "permanent", but it is very ridiculous IMO. And would be funny if it was not so sad. It is not easy for an elderly man to get around on prosthetic legs all day.

    I know those chairs are very expensive, but give him the darn chair already!

    Interestingly, though, I'd bet my last dollar that those who scoff at Sweden's system for denying this man a costly power chair would howl if it was their tax dollars that were paying for it. They would likely scream that he should pay for it out of pocket or deal with a regular wheel chair or an electric chair. Or they would say that the government shouldn't pay for anything at all.

    I guess it is much better to have private insurers deny services than to have tax supported health care systems do the very same thing.
    His legs being gone is clearly permanent. Even if he is able to walk on prosthetic legs he still never going to have actual legs.
    Just my opinion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbetbathory View Post
    I have 13 screws 2 plates and a bone graft in my left shoulder. Every joint in my body dislocates I am having new surgery on my right, what I have will eventually kill me. But I have been fighting for health care and disability for 5 years
    Another example of folks who truly need help not getting it. Why should government stay out of the healthcare business in general?

    Surgery vs. Penis Pumps...and the winner is?

    Quarter-Billion Taxpayer Dollars Spent on Penis Pumps

    According to data collected by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), Medicare has spent more than $240 million of taxpayer money on penis pumps for elderly men over the past decade, and will surpass a quarter of a billion dollars this year for costs since 2001.

    The cost to taxpayers for the pumps more than quadrupled during that period, from a low of $11 million in 2001 to a high of more than $47 million in 2010. And these represent only the costs for external devices, technically classified as “Male Vacuum Erection Systems,” not implantable devices or oral drugs such as Viagra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrackerSam View Post
    I'll take that bet. Anyone who thinks things will be better when Obamacare kicks in has drunk the Kool-Aid.
    I doubt things will be better either. They'll probably stay about the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    His legs being gone is clearly permanent. Even if he is able to walk on prosthetic legs he still never going to have actual legs.
    You're right. Which is why the phrasing is laughable.
    For Travis Alexander, a human being. Justice will prevail.


    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrackerSam View Post
    I'll take that bet. Anyone who thinks things will be better when Obamacare kicks in has drunk the Kool-Aid.
    I'm someone who has the Inclusive Health insurance. I had a pre-exsisting condition from childhood that caused me to be denied health insurance for years after loosing my job and not being able to afford the $843.00 a month payment to cobra with no income.

    Now I can have my illness treated and no longer have to live in pain, constantly.

    So for you, a government healthcare may not be an answer, but to assume everyone who wants insurance, has it, and can afford to basically live, is just wrong. I'm proof of that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angels_Not_Forgotten View Post
    So for you, a government healthcare may not be an answer, but to assume everyone who wants insurance, has it, and can afford to basically live, is just wrong. I'm proof of that.

    Can you please quote the assumption I made? I can't find it. Thank you. Perhaps you assumed I made assumptions.
    I had to drop me health insurance because I just couldn't afford it anymore and I suspect the cost will rise when Obamacare fully kicks in. It's already responsible for the lack of hiring IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    Oh, and by the way? People in Sweden, Canada, Norway, Australia, Holland, New Zealand, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Denmark - those commie countries? They are allowed to have private insurance as well. So, if they are not happy with the government regulated or funded health insurance that is free to them, they are able to pad it with private insurance in the event something like this may occur.
    With regards to Canada at least, it is not free. I have lived a few years there and still have many Canadian friends. Obviously as a non-citizen it was not free to me but neither is it for them, there is a specific percentage amount taken out of the paycheck of every salaried Canadian that constitutes a health care insurance premium (I did not have to pay this). As for the self-employed and pensioners they must pay an annual fee when they fill out their income tax papers. It is however free for children and people who are not employed.

    Also even though health care coverage is funded by the federal government it is the provinces that administer the program through semi-independent agencies that are very reminiscent of our HMO's. These agencies' main agenda appear to be cutting costs and their management are given bonuses based on how much money they save, leading to a mindset similar to HMO managers. I have seen a few cases where overly costly treatment was denied even when a patient's life was at stake, but often once the story makes the news those patients can rely on public donations to fund their treatment.

    As for private medical insurance in Canada it is usually purchased to cover convenience amenities such as medivacs -which is a private business in most areas- private rooms during hospital stays, minor cosmetic surgery (when not warranted by a medical condition or accident, in which case the public plan covers it) and such. Wealthy Canadians also often purchase high-end insurance coverage for treatment in overnight private clinics or private hospitals. The latter only applies to Quebec, which is the only province so far where fully private, for-profit hospitals are allowed. The difference between a private hospital and a private clinic is that a private hospital is required by law to provide a full array of services whereas private clinics are usually specialized in specific surgical procedures and not equipped for long stays.

    A common misconception about the public health care in Canada is that physicians are government employees with a fixed salary, and this is often used by US doctors to justify their lack of support for a public system. Nothing could be further from the truth. GP's in Canada are self-employed and bill the government for services provided to patients in physician-owned private clinics. As in the US this is done on a per-patient basis. Same goes for surgeons and most other specialists.

    I noticed that when Canadians gripe about their system when they compare it to ours, the comparison is often done against high-end facilities that very few Americans have access to. The Mayo Clinic figures prominently is those comparisons. If Canadians knew how HMO's actually work in real life with their waiting lists, red tape, seemingly random physician case assignments and overstretched facilities they would not complain. The few hospitals I have seen in Canada are of superior quality to the average hospital here. Cleaner, newer, more efficient. And those were public hospitals.

    Basically our HMO's are so regulated that the difference between them and a state agency is pretty blurred, to the point where we have state agencies whose sole purpose is to monitor them. Personally I don't think it would make much of a difference if HMO's were taken over by a public health care plan, be it state-run or federal, except for the extension of coverage to those who currently aren't covered through their employer or welfare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrackerSam View Post
    A man from Nyköping in eastern Sweden has been denied a power wheelchair despite having had both of his legs amputated as the local health authority remained "uncertain if the impairment was permanent".


    http://www.thelocal.se/37678/20111201/#

    HUH? Is this what our health care will look like soon?
    In all fairness the title of the article is misleading, the man was not denied a wheelchair. In fact he was offered an electric wheelchair but what he wanted was a mobility scooter. Those are much more expensive and rarely covered even by private insurance. Most of the time insurance will subsidize the purchase of such a scooter up to the value of a standard power wheelchair.

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