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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    If she's willing to put herself in danger like that, police should have been working with her ... monitoring the men that she agreed to meet. It really seems like police are trying to play down everything and do as little as possible. When we hear that an 18 month old child was taken with an escort, I have to wonder what exactly police are thinking. Why would the mom feel comfortable enough to take along a toddler? Did this guy pick up the mom and the toddler and then what ... where did he take them? The Asian dressed as a woman ... wast that an accident where the guy didn't realize that she was a he?

    Could there be two people involved, like the Charles Ng case?
    Taking a toddler along suggests famialarity. Perhaps the victim knew the killer ( or thought she did). There is always the possibility that the child belonged to the killer too.

    AFAIK, there hasn't been an official cause of death for the toddler at this time.

    What is interesting to me is that the earlier victims were dismembered, there is no cause of death for the child (soft death maybe, suffocation?) and the Asian male dressed in women's clothing was beaten to death. Rage?

    While the G4 were all wrapped up in burlap.....
    ...and be sure your sin will find you out.

    Numbers,32:23

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda View Post
    Shannan's mom, Mari showed logs/journals that contained information of SG's contacts. Shannan had told her mom not to worry...her clients were wealthy....Drs., Lawyers, Judges, Teachers.

    Shannan and Pak decided to go free lance after meeting one another while working at an escort agency. (Jersey? lace party girls?) Shannan placed an ad on Backpage and JB responded. Pak drove her to OB

    .
    Shannon's disappearance is really a mystery. She ran into the bushes and vanished. That suggests to me that either she had a terrible accident in a place where she could vanish (like down a well - not likely) or someone grabbed her. It's not surprising that her body wouldn't be in the same location as the other 10 victims since the dumping grounds were about to be discovered. She must be in a new location. That also suggests that the person that grabbed her must have looked somewhat trustworthy, as she was running away from her driver and the other man that opened his door to her. Why would she go towards someone else and not her driver when she was in trouble ... unless she suspected that her driver was involved in something that would put her in danger.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda View Post
    Taking a toddler along suggests famialarity. Perhaps the victim knew the killer ( or thought she did). There is always the possibility that the child belonged to the killer too.

    AFAIK, there hasn't been an official cause of death for the toddler at this time.

    What is interesting to me is that the earlier victims were dismembered, there is no cause of death for the child (soft death maybe, suffocation?) and the Asian male dressed in women's clothing was beaten to death. Rage?

    While the G4 were all wrapped up in burlap.....
    Interesting points ... like what was said on the program about the guy evolving. Maybe he originally thought that in order to get away with the murder he had to spread the remains across long distances. Maybe he discovered that the remains he was hiding were simply not being discovered, so he stopped dismembering them and simply wrapped them in burlap. He certainly seems to have put a lot of thought into hiding the crimes.

    The Asian guy was most likely a case of mistaken identity ... thought he was a female ... which suggests that the first time they met was when he was murdered.

    Interesting thought about the toddler. If the toddler and mother were the first victims, he might well be the father of the toddler ... perhaps angry that he had a hookup and ended up with a child ... stayed angry about it for 2.5 years and then murdered them.

  4. #34
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    What if the guy that grabbed Shannon appeared to be someone in authority, like a security guard or someone wearing a uniform ... that might have given her the idea that he was a safe person to go to. She was calling 911 and fearful for her life when she had good cause to be fearful, yet the people she was afraid of were not the people she needed to be afraid of ... that seems so unusual. Still, if she was running and saw someone that she thought she recognized or appeared to be someone in authority, that would explain why she went with the perpetrator rather than someone safe.

  5. #35
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    IMo, Pak didn't come off as believable.
    ...and be sure your sin will find you out.

    Numbers,32:23

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda View Post
    Shannan's mom, Mari showed logs/journals that contained information of SG's contacts. Shannan had told her mom not to worry...her clients were wealthy....Drs., Lawyers, Judges, Teachers.
    <rsbm>


    I lost ALL my notes when my old PC crashed a few weeks back ... but I'm positive Melissa had also told their mom about working with professionals.

    OK, found my old post:

    "... Megan Waterman's last call home, she excitedly said to the effect "we're selling to doctors, lawyers, and LE professionals"

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by sillybilly View Post
    <rsbm>


    I lost ALL my notes when my old PC crashed a few weeks back ... but I'm positive Melissa had also told their mom about working with professionals.

    OK, found my old post:

    "... Megan Waterman's last call home, she excitedly said to the effect "we're selling to doctors, lawyers, and LE professionals"
    I think that may just be a standard line that prostitutes tell their loved ones so it doesn't sound as bad as it really is.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikk99 View Post
    I like how they talked about each victim's families and friends.

    Very sad. Very well done and respectable.

    I got creeped out when they talked about the calls he made to the sister and threatened her. They think she was kept alive for a month before she was murdered.
    Yeah...my husband watched this part with me. He wasn't familiar with the case and that part really freaked him out.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda View Post
    Amber had resumed a heroin habit shortly before she disappeared. (which may expalin her risky behavior) As well as her roommate Schaller. Schallar is now clean. IMO he seems like a staight shooter. He walked with her onto the porch and said goodbye as she walked down the street to meet the SK.
    This makes me think the SK might have driven by and scene Schaller with her first and had her meet him a block away.

    Does anyone know if her address ever released?

  10. #40
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    KAYTOM, all I know is that she lived in a house in Babylon.

    wm
    ...and be sure your sin will find you out.

    Numbers,32:23


  11. #41
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    shadowraiths is offline LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Specialist, infoSec Architect
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    For those interested in the crime mapping angle ala geographical profiling ala jeopardy surfaces, here's the [ame=http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134809]map thread[/ame]. As for where the GB4 & Shannan hailed from? Megan lived in Portland Maine ( link ), Maureen lived in Norwich Connecticut ( link ), Melissa lived in the Bronx ( link ) , Amber lived in West Babylon ( link ), and Shannan lived in Jersey City ( link ).



    Forensic Psychology Portal

    I tend to disappear from Websleuths from time to time.
    If I do, you can usually find me on
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda View Post

    Y'all help me out here. From where did MBB travel? Was it Maine? TIA

    wm
    MBB was from Groton, Connecticut.
    Some people do crossword puzzles or Soduko in their spare time...I look at skeletal reconstructions and work on UID puzzles. I swear I'm not this morbid in person!

    Help Fred Murray find his daughter and bring her home. He should not be walking those woods alone!
    What Happened to Maura Murray? http://www.mauramurraymissing.com

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    If she's willing to put herself in danger like that, police should have been working with her ... monitoring the men that she agreed to meet.
    Yeah from what she said in the special, I can deduce that Amber's sister doesn't have the best judgment, or the best record of making good decisions. She seemed pretty confident about being able to take down a experienced serial killer herself, which is reckless and dangerous. I really hope she's able to get some help for herself, for the traumatic effects of losing her sister, but also so she can stop putting herself in dangerous situations - it seemed self-destructive to me, and made me wonder about what happened in these sisters' childhoods that made them both go down this path.
    Some people do crossword puzzles or Soduko in their spare time...I look at skeletal reconstructions and work on UID puzzles. I swear I'm not this morbid in person!

    Help Fred Murray find his daughter and bring her home. He should not be walking those woods alone!
    What Happened to Maura Murray? http://www.mauramurraymissing.com

  14. #44
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    I found Pak to be EXTREMELY hinky...................

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    Shannon's disappearance is really a mystery. She ran into the bushes and vanished. That suggests to me that either she had a terrible accident in a place where she could vanish (like down a well - not likely) or someone grabbed her. It's not surprising that her body wouldn't be in the same location as the other 10 victims since the dumping grounds were about to be discovered. She must be in a new location. That also suggests that the person that grabbed her must have looked somewhat trustworthy, as she was running away from her driver and the other man that opened his door to her. Why would she go towards someone else and not her driver when she was in trouble ... unless she suspected that her driver was involved in something that would put her in danger.
    Yes, but two more bodies were dumped there after she disappeared.

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