Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28

Thread: Teacher removes word "gay" from Deck the Halls

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    30,860

    Teacher removes word "gay" from Deck the Halls

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/trending...164802191.html

    One parent said, "By taking the word 'gay' out of 'Deck the Halls,' you are making it a big deal. One word can have different meanings." Another parent voiced, "Can one word in a 150-year-old classic Christmas carol really offend someone?" The negative comments have since been deleted from the school's Facebook page, and wall posts have been disabled. Cherry Knoll Principal Chris Parker is on the parents' side, saying, "This would have been a great opportunity to teach that 'gay' has more than one meaning and is not a bad word." In response to the controversy over the word change, the original lyrics have now been restored.


    Nosy by Nature and a Websleuther by choice

  2. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Linda7NJ For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Palm Springs
    Posts
    18,658
    ...the original lyrics have now been restored.
    Good. I really don't care for the recent use of the word "gay" as slang for lame, stupid or uncool; but I don't know a single gay person who ever intended to eradicate the use of the word to mean happy or carefree. I certainly see no reason to rewrite the classics.

    So I have no idea what inspired this nonsense.

    (ETA I see now: the first- and second-graders giggled at the word. Teachable moment, anyone?)

  4. The Following 17 Users Say Thank You to Nova For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Behind the eight ball
    Posts
    2,928
    From what I heard and read, the children were young and they were chuckling at the word "gay" in the song every time they sang it. I'm sure the teacher wasn't trying to create some big controversy or make a statement.. she just wanted her class to get through the song. My son chuckles every time he hears the word duty (like kitchen duty) because it sounds like doody!
    I'm sure this was ALL very innocent and NOT meant to be a slap in the face of homosexuality!

    OT: i hope the school and the community have the same reaction when their politicians try to take the words "Under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance! Our priorities are so skewed in this country! UGH (MOO)
    It's just MOO. I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time and it surely won't be the last!

    Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.



  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to deelytful1 For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    StL
    Posts
    5,870
    Quote Originally Posted by deelytful1 View Post
    From what I heard and read, the children were young and they were chuckling at the word "gay" in the song every time they sang it. I'm sure the teacher wasn't trying to create some big controversy or make a statement.. she just wanted her class to get through the song. My son chuckles every time he hears the word duty (like kitchen duty) because it sounds like doody!
    I'm sure this was ALL very innocent and NOT meant to be a slap in the face of homosexuality!

    OT: i hope the school and the community have the same reaction when their politicians try to take the words "Under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance! Our priorities are so skewed in this country! UGH (MOO)
    BBM: my class did this, too, back in 1982. The music teacher was so irate, demanded for us to tell him "what is so funny?", and taught us that the word gay had many meanings. Of course, we all knew the other definitions, but boy, we sang that song with no laughter after the speech he gave us!

    But back then when adults commanded respect, we gave it to them, especially teachers.
    ~ krimekat ~
    Live in Peace & Peace will live in you

    ++++++++++++
    Forum Information & Esoterica

  8. The Following 15 Users Say Thank You to krimekat For This Useful Post:


  9. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Palm Springs
    Posts
    18,658
    Quote Originally Posted by deelytful1 View Post
    ...I'm sure this was ALL very innocent and NOT meant to be a slap in the face of homosexuality!....
    I haven't been appointed to speak for all members of my tribe, but I am one gay man to whom it never occurred that dropping the word "gay" was motivated by homophobia.

  10. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Nova For This Useful Post:


  11. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    17,029
    It seems that if the teachers authority couldn't stop the children from laughing it would have been simpler to choose another song for the children to sing. If it's a song that everybody knows and you go and change the words that one word that's missing is going to be highlighted in their thoughts and I bet they would rather have the parents think, "Oh what a lovely song, there is so much Christmas spirit, well done children" than, "didn't there used to be the word gay in this song?".

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Donjeta For This Useful Post:


  13. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    2,203
    It may have been easier to choose another song, but no one ever said teaching was easy. You use this situation to TEACH the kids what the word means in the context of the song and you also iterate that you expect them to be respectful when singing the song.

    The easy way out is dumbing down our kids at an alarming rate. IMO

  14. The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to EGirl For This Useful Post:


  15. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Penn's woods
    Posts
    17,240
    I have a very general issue about censoring. So my issue isn't with what the word now represents in popular culture as a slang term.

    This kind of reminded me of the convo we all had earlier about schools changing the words in Mark Twain books that reflect the language usage at the time and the general pervasive cultural ideals about certain minorities in our society.

    They are teaching moments I agree. They shouldn't be removed or censored but used as a way to show that times change and attitudes are constantly changing and hopefully we are moving in a better direction. JMHO. But then again I'm a pollyanna at times.

  16. The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to Kat For This Useful Post:


  17. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    30,860
    Quote Originally Posted by Kat View Post
    I have a very general issue about censoring. So my issue isn't with what the word now represents in popular culture as a slang term.

    This kind of reminded me of the convo we all had earlier about schools changing the words in Mark Twain books that reflect the language usage at the time and the general pervasive cultural ideals about certain minorities in our society.

    They are teaching moments I agree. They shouldn't be removed or censored but used as a way to show that times change and attitudes are constantly changing and hopefully we are moving in a better direction. JMHO. But then again I'm a pollyanna at times.
    BRAVO!!! I couldn't agree more


    Nosy by Nature and a Websleuther by choice

  18. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Linda7NJ For This Useful Post:


  19. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Palm Springs
    Posts
    18,658
    Quote Originally Posted by Kat View Post
    I have a very general issue about censoring. So my issue isn't with what the word now represents in popular culture as a slang term.

    This kind of reminded me of the convo we all had earlier about schools changing the words in Mark Twain books that reflect the language usage at the time and the general pervasive cultural ideals about certain minorities in our society.

    They are teaching moments I agree. They shouldn't be removed or censored but used as a way to show that times change and attitudes are constantly changing and hopefully we are moving in a better direction. JMHO. But then again I'm a pollyanna at times.
    I tend to agree with you about censorship.

    But when I was a kid 50 years ago, the "N word" (hate that phrase) had already been retired from the children's rhyme:

    "Eenie, Meenie, Minie, Moe,
    Catch a n_______ by the toe..."

    And I think that's a case where censorship was a good thing. Changing the "N word" to "tiger" didn't hurt the nursery rhyme, it improved it.

    But the word "gay" is not a derogatory word to gay people, it it our word of choice. That is also has other, non-derogatory, "non-gay" meanings is perfectly acceptable and should have been an opportunity to teach the various uses and meanings of language.

  20. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Nova For This Useful Post:


  21. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    4,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    I tend to agree with you about censorship.

    But when I was a kid 50 years ago, the "N word" (hate that phrase) had already been retired from the children's rhyme:

    "Eenie, Meenie, Minie, Moe,
    Catch a n_______ by the toe..."

    And I think that's a case where censorship was a good thing. Changing the "N word" to "tiger" didn't hurt the nursery rhyme, it improved it.

    But the word "gay" is not a derogatory word to gay people, it it our word of choice. That is also has other, non-derogatory, "non-gay" meanings is perfectly acceptable and should have been an opportunity to teach the various uses and meanings of language.
    Hey Nova - I've got gay men friends who will gaylee (how do you spell that anyway?) sing, "Don is now in gay apparel fa la la la la la..." etc. We laugh, we smile, who cares? Nobody really. We didn't know what gay was when I was in school, but I'm sure it is a teachable moment and let's face it, sometimes we (OK I guess I'm only going to speak for myself but...) I TOTALLY GIVE IN TO JUVENILE HUMOR AT TIMES. Explain the meaning of the word, let them giggle and snicker and move on.
    __________________
    Disclaimer: I have a JD, but I am not licensed to practice. Therefore, do not interpret anything contained in my posts as legal advice - they are my personal opinion only.

  22. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to ziggy For This Useful Post:


  23. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    3,655
    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    I tend to agree with you about censorship.

    But when I was a kid 50 years ago, the "N word" (hate that phrase) had already been retired from the children's rhyme:

    "Eenie, Meenie, Minie, Moe,
    Catch a n_______ by the toe..."

    And I think that's a case where censorship was a good thing. Changing the "N word" to "tiger" didn't hurt the nursery rhyme, it improved it.

    But the word "gay" is not a derogatory word to gay people, it it our word of choice. That is also has other, non-derogatory, "non-gay" meanings is perfectly acceptable and should have been an opportunity to teach the various uses and meanings of language.
    Do you know it wasn't until I was an adult that I realised it was the N word, and not knicker? Most nursery rhymes don't make a whole lot of sense anyway.

    There's so many changes going on with nursery rhymes and kids songs now that I think are going way OTT....like Baa Baa rainbow sheep instead of Baa Baa Black sheep.

    "Kookaburra sits in the old gum tree" has a line that goes: Laugh, Kookaburra laugh, Kookaburra gay your life must be."....and they want to change that too.
    It's generally adults who take issue with it, not kids.
    If kids are giggling over a word, why not open up the dictionary and show them that it has multiple meanings. Gay= happy or merry.

    My kids school song has the line "sing for cox, sing for ........" (cox being the name of their sporting team). I've only once seen a teacher give the kids 'that look' when they delieberately sang the word louder.

    Meanwhile I have to pinch myself to stop from giggling. Sadly those kids are more mature than I am. LOL

  24. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to butwhatif? For This Useful Post:


  25. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    30,860
    Quote Originally Posted by butwhatif? View Post
    Do you know it wasn't until I was an adult that I realised it was the N word, and not knicker? Most nursery rhymes don't make a whole lot of sense anyway.

    There's so many changes going on with nursery rhymes and kids songs now that I think are going way OTT....like Baa Baa rainbow sheep instead of Baa Baa Black sheep.

    "Kookaburra sits in the old gum tree" has a line that goes: Laugh, Kookaburra laugh, Kookaburra gay your life must be."....and they want to change that too.
    It's generally adults who take issue with it, not kids.
    If kids are giggling over a word, why not open up the dictionary and show them that it has multiple meanings. Gay= happy or merry.

    My kids school song has the line "sing for cox, sing for ........" (cox being the name of their sporting team). I've only once seen a teacher give the kids 'that look' when they delieberately sang the word louder.

    Meanwhile I have to pinch myself to stop from giggling. Sadly those kids are more mature than I am. LOL
    I could not sing that with a straight face.


    Nosy by Nature and a Websleuther by choice

  26. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Linda7NJ For This Useful Post:


  27. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,913
    I once knew a woman who was named 'Gay'. I wonder if this teacher would have not addressed my friend by her first name because it made some kids giggle? Perhaps teacher should have taken the opportunity to teach these kids that the word gay has several meanings.


    "Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler".

    Albert Einstein


    “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated”.

    Mahatma Gandhi

  28. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Jack For This Useful Post:


  29. #15
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chicago burbs
    Posts
    72,372
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    I once knew a woman who was named 'Gay'. I wonder if this teacher would have not addressed my friend by her first name because it made some kids giggle? Perhaps teacher should have taken the opportunity to teach these kids that the word gay has several meanings.


    Teacher and the parents. As a parent, I have already taken the time to explain some of the dual meanings of several words.

    From the link in the OP:
    First- and second-graders would not stop giggling when they sang the word "gay."

    Seriously, we are talking about 1st and 2nd graders here, who will likely giggle about a great many things. I know my 3rd grade son still does. They need to know when it is not appropriate to laugh or giggle in class. Period.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

    You can now purchase Mr. Harrod's Disappeared episode through Amazon, iTunes or YouTube.


    Websleuths Resource Center

    Call Kurtis - Psychics and the Missing

  30. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Cubby For This Useful Post:


  31. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    3,987
    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    Teacher and the parents. As a parent, I have already taken the time to explain some of the dual meanings of several words.

    From the link in the OP:
    First- and second-graders would not stop giggling when they sang the word "gay."

    Seriously, we are talking about 1st and 2nd graders here, who will likely giggle about a great many things. I know my 3rd grade son still does. They need to know when it is not appropriate to laugh or giggle in class. Period.
    ahhh it's not always just kids, one of the trains here ends at "cockfosters" and I laugh like a moron everytime they announce it.

    by no means do I think they should change the station name

  32. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 2goldfish For This Useful Post:


  33. #17
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chicago burbs
    Posts
    72,372
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    I once knew a woman who was named 'Gay'. I wonder if this teacher would have not addressed my friend by her first name because it made some kids giggle? Perhaps teacher should have taken the opportunity to teach these kids that the word gay has several meanings.

    Exactly! And with a group of 1st and 2nd graders, all she needed to do was explain what the word meant in the context of this song. No need for her, as a teacher, to take it any further. I really doubt a 1st or 2nd grader would have been as boisterous as say a 4th or 5th grader to challenge her verbally. The teacher really made a much bigger deal over this than necessary.

    jmo
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

    You can now purchase Mr. Harrod's Disappeared episode through Amazon, iTunes or YouTube.


    Websleuths Resource Center

    Call Kurtis - Psychics and the Missing

  34. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Cubby For This Useful Post:


  35. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    23,356
    It was a teachable moment. One that other teachers will have to pay for. What did the kids learn?

    Pick a word, any word and giggle. Teacher will quit that word.

    So Spelling, giggle giggle. Math, giggle giggle.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

  36. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to mysteriew For This Useful Post:


  37. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Penn's woods
    Posts
    17,240
    I never learned that nursey rhyme but I did hear it as a teen. My Mother and I heard it being sung in the alleyway by some kids. I remember my Mom said who in their right mind wouldn't take the time to explain the use of that word to kids and tell them how hurtful it really is?

    But then again, it brought back a memory for me. Although I was born in 1961 it is my Mother (who is only 16 years younger than me) that was truly a child of the 60's.

    She had very liberal views (at the time concerning race) and I am very grateful she passed them onto me as a very young child. OT but I've shared that my Daddy (adoptive stepfather) marched with MLK.

    So when I learned the Kentucky state song in grade school and came home to sing it for her she sat down and talked to me about the use of the word "darkie" in it. Why it was used when the song was written and what connotations are connected to it at the time I learned it.

    That lyric was changed by the time my oldest daughter learned the song.

    At the time I had no problem with it being changed and in fact I agreed with it's change.

    The actual lyric changed was:

    "Tis summer the darkie's are gay"

    However, I now have a different point of view. It would be a multidimensional lesson if children were being taught the song in 2011 to know the original lyrics. A lesson in music, a lesson in our not so distant past, a lesson in acceptance and a lesson in the struggles of that minority to attain equal rights...

    But to be honest, my views have changed drastically from 25 yrs of age to 50 yrs of age and if you ask me when I'm 75 they will probably be even more different.

    Oh and I'd leave in the gay part too when I taught them both versions.

    I don't allow the use of racial slurs in my home or sweeping generalizations of any race. My children themselves are multiracial. And another totally off topic comment while I'm at it haha---I don't agree with teaching a child that they are so unique. I rather focus on teaching my children just how much they are alike others. That way hopefully they don't see themselves as seperate and unique but a part of the human race as a whole and can develop more compassion and empathy for others.

    boy I went off topic! sorry all.

  38. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Kat For This Useful Post:


  39. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Palm Springs
    Posts
    18,658
    Kat, as you can see, I agree with you in general about the importance of allowing past works to stay unchanged for educational purposes.

    But the state song? Surely that should be something everyone can sing without cringing, even if a little bit of history is lost.

    (And now, thanks to you, I'm off to look up the original Stephen Foster lyrics to Florida's state song. God only knows what's in them!)

    ETA: sure enough, the state has changed the lyrics to "The Swanee River (Old Folks at Home)" since I was a kid.

    The longed for "plantation" is now a "childhood station" (whatever that is).

    And "darkies" have become "dear ones". (How sweet!)


    http://flheritage.com/kids/symbol.cfm?id=19

  40. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Nova For This Useful Post:


  41. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Penn's woods
    Posts
    17,240
    LOL Nova.

  42. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kat For This Useful Post:


  43. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    where no man has boldy gone
    Posts
    3,644
    Teacher needs to learn copyright laws. Here is the original version maybe she should try this one. The whole thing makes no sense.

    http://www.mahalo.com/deck-the-halls-lyrics/
    It's almost been a year since we did our last show.Jay Bush my partner has been auditioning for the show Shark Tank and so this has put the show on hold. If he gets on Shark Tank, we will be terribly delayed. Good luck Jay. Either way we will one day continue the show and have the coolest global independent radio station out there. This is just a small video we did with one of our artists.Waiting for One and their tune 35 years. Check it out.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7Go80y20fA
    We hope to be doing a radio show with all our artists real soon. Hope you can join in the fun. Please bare with us while we improve the show especially the sound.
    Laserdog Enterprises would like to bring you our version of a Tribute to the Angels of Newtown. Another school shooting in Georgia thankfully no children were hurt.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axOGOBT77Xs

    Please take a few moments and visit the missing children site. We really need you.
    Click on the link to find a missing child,teen or adult.

    http://www.missingkids.com/missingki...eCountry=en_US

  44. The Following User Says Thank You to legalmania For This Useful Post:


  45. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Palm Springs
    Posts
    18,658
    Quote Originally Posted by legalmania View Post
    Teacher needs to learn copyright laws. Here is the original version maybe she should try this one. The whole thing makes no sense.

    http://www.mahalo.com/deck-the-halls-lyrics/
    I'm just guessing, legal, but surely "Deck the Halls" is public domain by now!

  46. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Nova For This Useful Post:


  47. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Atlanta GA
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by butwhatif? View Post
    Do you know it wasn't until I was an adult that I realised it was the N word, and not knicker? Most nursery rhymes don't make a whole lot of sense anyway.

    There's so many changes going on with nursery rhymes and kids songs now that I think are going way OTT....like Baa Baa rainbow sheep instead of Baa Baa Black sheep.

    "Kookaburra sits in the old gum tree" has a line that goes: Laugh, Kookaburra laugh, Kookaburra gay your life must be."....and they want to change that too.
    It's generally adults who take issue with it, not kids.
    If kids are giggling over a word, why not open up the dictionary and show them that it has multiple meanings. Gay= happy or merry.

    My kids school song has the line "sing for cox, sing for ........" (cox being the name of their sporting team). I've only once seen a teacher give the kids 'that look' when they delieberately sang the word louder.

    Meanwhile I have to pinch myself to stop from giggling. Sadly those kids are more mature than I am. LOL
    Reminds me of when I was doing my student teaching in London. The group of us American teachers were playing baseball with the kids and teaching them several songs and poems about the game. (It was all very "whole language" back in the early 90s.)

    There was another teacher there from Australia, where "root" apparently has a similar meaning to the f word. So when we sang, "We'll root root root for the home team!" he was nearly on the floor laughing and couldn't even explain why to the children.

    HILARIOUS. Of course, once he shared we could barely sing it with a straight face either.

    As a teacher myself, I kind of feel like teachers who cannot handle little children giggling at silly things should find a different line of work. There's classroom disciplinarian and then there's anal-retentive hard@ss.
    Please help find Gerry Largay, 66, missing on the Appalachian Trail in Maine.
    http://www.wlbz2.com/news/article/25...ssing-in-Maine

  48. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to angelmom For This Useful Post:


  49. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    where no man has boldy gone
    Posts
    3,644
    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    I'm just guessing, legal, but surely "Deck the Halls" is public domain by now!
    I learned in collage that it last a life time plus 70 years. If he had a will whoever took over the estate would have the rights. Or someone may have bought the rights. It's just to hard to say without knowing when the person died and if they died intestate. I always think of the lady who wrote Happy Birthday, she got ripped off really bad.

    http://www.intellectualpropertylawfi.../how-long-does
    It's almost been a year since we did our last show.Jay Bush my partner has been auditioning for the show Shark Tank and so this has put the show on hold. If he gets on Shark Tank, we will be terribly delayed. Good luck Jay. Either way we will one day continue the show and have the coolest global independent radio station out there. This is just a small video we did with one of our artists.Waiting for One and their tune 35 years. Check it out.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7Go80y20fA
    We hope to be doing a radio show with all our artists real soon. Hope you can join in the fun. Please bare with us while we improve the show especially the sound.
    Laserdog Enterprises would like to bring you our version of a Tribute to the Angels of Newtown. Another school shooting in Georgia thankfully no children were hurt.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axOGOBT77Xs

    Please take a few moments and visit the missing children site. We really need you.
    Click on the link to find a missing child,teen or adult.

    http://www.missingkids.com/missingki...eCountry=en_US

  50. The Following User Says Thank You to legalmania For This Useful Post:


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-05-2014, 09:55 PM
  2. Replies: 66
    Last Post: 11-06-2011, 02:11 AM
  3. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 06-08-2011, 05:00 PM
  4. Muslims attack "gay" model in Amsterdam!
    By Karole28 in forum Up to the Minute
    Replies: 183
    Last Post: 06-12-2008, 05:57 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •