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  1. #1
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  3. #2
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    From the previous thread:

    Bellaneph

    can someone start new thread?
    Even though some on here have certain feelings about Patty, I got the feeling Ray really liked Patty. Putting a car in someone's name is nothing to sneeze at. Maybe it even showed some predetermination on his part about his leaving eventually or just worked out well in the end by chance, but either way, it was his choice to put the car in her name. I also got the feeling that he liked her as a person even though he might not have been as in love with her as she was with him. Either way, I'm not so sure (as Allison stated earlier) that his leaving had anything to do with Patty. He probably didn't say anything because that would defeat the point, wouldn't it?

    As for the laptop/hard drive. Maybe he thought he would get another drive and threw in the hard drive and then thought about it for a few minutes after and decided it wasn't such a good idea to call attention to the hard drive by buying a new one. That might make people think "what happened to the old one?" And if someone recognized him buying a new hard drive after he disappeared, that would be a problem. Ray didn't expect anyone to find the old hard drive after all.....So, I think it was just a change in plan thinking he'd cover his tracks better. He didn't need his laptop then anyway and it was just safer to buy a whole computer later.
    That could explain tossing the laptop. A murderer tossing it could be a similar explanation, simply to get rid of it.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?


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  5. #3
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    Bellaneph


    Quote:
    can someone start new thread?
    Even though some on here have certain feelings about Patty, I got the feeling Ray really liked Patty. Putting a car in someone's name is nothing to sneeze at. Maybe it even showed some predetermination on his part about his leaving eventually or just worked out well in the end by chance, but either way, it was his choice to put the car in her name. I also got the feeling that he liked her as a person even though he might not have been as in love with her as she was with him. Either way, I'm not so sure (as Allison stated earlier) that his leaving had anything to do with Patty. He probably didn't say anything because that would defeat the point, wouldn't it?

    As for the laptop/hard drive. Maybe he thought he would get another drive and threw in the hard drive and then thought about it for a few minutes after and decided it wasn't such a good idea to call attention to the hard drive by buying a new one. That might make people think "what happened to the old one?" And if someone recognized him buying a new hard drive after he disappeared, that would be a problem. Ray didn't expect anyone to find the old hard drive after all.....So, I think it was just a change in plan thinking he'd cover his tracks better. He didn't need his laptop then anyway and it was just safer to buy a whole computer later.


    Thanks for your comments, Bellaneph. I had to digest a bit of your comment here, and I see some good rationalization. In my mind, I am trying to see behaviors of RFG that would point toward him leaving (like not coming back willingly). The intricacy of the relationship with PF is a difficult Red Flag to toss here from the sidelines.

    The only thing I may counter with you is about the laptop. It did not 'belong' to him. That was County property, and he had already demonstrated concern (with the erasure stuff and all). If he was planning on returning, the old toss over the bridge routine does not truly resolve anything for him, property-wise. With him just buying a new laptop/drive leaves an open loop for him, ethically.

    So, again, I look more toward finality. If he tosses it (hard-drive as well), his intent is that he is Walking. And as JJ just mentioned, the Murder scenario plays out just the same.


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  7. #4
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    Yesterday, 09:03 PM
    AllisonS

    I think the last few weeks have been very much an emotional rollercoaster on this case. The Sandusky case was disheartening, then the blonde, big haired woman was a new hope in a positive direction. I think there are going to be more ups and downs before this is all over and I hope everyone hangs in here for the long haul...I think the discussion is very informative and helpful !


    Thank you. Could not have been expressed any better.


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  9. #5
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    From JJ's comment previous thread:

    If IB is accurate, it might be positive in terms of a solution, but it might not in terms of what happened to RFG. This could very easily point to foul play.

    I have a hard time figuring out why a helper would get into the Mini. Presumably, a helper would have transportation and RFG would realize the car would be checked, forensically.
    __________________


    Yes, the car was clean forensically, but the ashes and slight smell of smoke...and his turned off cell phone...I'm tossing the Red Flag here. RFG's concern of forensics at this point go out the window. I still see someone sitting sideways on the passenger seat, door swung open and having themselves a wee bit of a Puff ! RFG's intent ? He's Walking. I see the Foul Play more likely AFTER, if that happened. First and foremost, look at the Walkaway behavior. I sense that more now...then the likelyhood of Foul Play may follow.

    PS: This in some way gets back to your Blog, Short Walk to Death....just that we now have an added twist with IB !!!

    Added: For need to know...IB is reference to Ivy Butterworth, our 'new witness'.
    Last edited by Lord_Chatterly; 12-07-2011 at 11:54 AM.


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  11. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Chatterly View Post

    The only thing I may counter with you is about the laptop. It did not 'belong' to him. That was County property, and he had already demonstrated concern (with the erasure stuff and all). If he was planning on returning, the old toss over the bridge routine does not truly resolve anything for him, property-wise. With him just buying a new laptop/drive leaves an open loop for him, ethically.

    So, again, I look more toward finality. If he tosses it (hard-drive as well), his intent is that he is Walking. And as JJ just mentioned, the Murder scenario plays out just the same.
    I disagree a bit. We know RFG didn't what was on the laptop to see the light of day, which is perfectly rational, if he had personal data on it. He also knew that the data was on the drive, and not the remaining components of the laptop (he did the searches).

    If this was just data destruction, why toss the laptop itself? Maybe RFG didn't want anyone to know he had removed the drive. Maybe RFG tossed the drive and someone else tossed the laptop.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?


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  13. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    I disagree a bit. We know RFG didn't what was on the laptop to see the light of day, which is perfectly rational, if he had personal data on it. He also knew that the data was on the drive, and not the remaining components of the laptop (he did the searches).

    If this was just data destruction, why toss the laptop itself? Maybe RFG didn't want anyone to know he had removed the drive. Maybe RFG tossed the drive and someone else tossed the laptop.
    Hey, I'm ok with that ! It could work BOTH ways, really. Putting myself in RFG's shoes, and with walkaway my intent, with a new identity to step into, why even carry with you a laptop (even without the drive) on your 'New Person' ? If he is found out, the laptop identifies him. In short, he has to cut the cord with everything related to that Burdensome Laptop .

    Added: RFG is already demonstrating that he is 'traveling lightly'.
    Last edited by Lord_Chatterly; 12-07-2011 at 11:58 AM.


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  15. #8
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    The Spotts Observation

    http://www.centredaily.com/2006/05/1...sed-leads.html

    This has always bothered me. An important scheduling for a death penalty case. Again, I am looking at WITNESSED behavior. Especially with RFG looking away, at the bookcases and says..."I will not be here" ...charge me with a time out, but I am Tossing the Red Flag from the sidelines.

    Methinks Ray is On His Way !

    Added: Timeline...March 9th, 2005...chambers of Judge Brown. Besides Spotts, did LE ever question
    Judge Brown of RFG's behavior at that time ?


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  17. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    I disagree a bit. We know RFG didn't what was on the laptop to see the light of day, which is perfectly rational, if he had personal data on it. He also knew that the data was on the drive, and not the remaining components of the laptop (he did the searches).

    If this was just data destruction, why toss the laptop itself? Maybe RFG didn't want anyone to know he had removed the drive. Maybe RFG tossed the drive and someone else tossed the laptop.
    Or, and I know this is probably WAY too much coincidence...RG tossed the hard drive with all intentions of returning home to his life and buying a replacement hard drive...and then something went wrong (along the murder scenario here) and the persons responsible tossed the rest of the computer because they didn't want to leave it behind as possible evidence or didn't know what it was doing there and just wanted it gone.


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  19. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllisonS View Post
    Or, and I know this is probably WAY too much coincidence...RG tossed the hard drive with all intentions of returning home to his life and buying a replacement hard drive...and then something went wrong (along the murder scenario here) and the persons responsible tossed the rest of the computer because they didn't want to leave it behind as possible evidence or didn't know what it was doing there and just wanted it gone.
    Yes, what you say is possible...my only concern would be this: 1) RFG tosses Hard Drive himself (with either intent of Walkaway...then The Short Walk to Death I had mentioned earlier (JJ's Blog from some time ago).

    2) Somebody else tosses the laptop.

    Here's the 'stretch' : How in the world were these two items FOUND so close to each other ? The coincidence you speak of has odds like you or me hitting the Lottery for a Million Bucks !!!

    I think if Foul Play, the laptop would have been ditched in a more Unlikely place...just a thought.


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  21. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Chatterly View Post
    Yes, what you say is possible...my only concern would be this: 1) RFG tosses Hard Drive himself (with either intent of Walkaway...then The Short Walk to Death I had mentioned earlier (JJ's Blog from some time ago).

    2) Somebody else tosses the laptop.

    Here's the 'stretch' : How in the world were these two items FOUND so close to each other ? The coincidence you speak of has odds like you or me hitting the Lottery for a Million Bucks !!!

    I think if Foul Play, the laptop would have been ditched in a more Unlikely place...just a thought.
    I know and agree, but is it possible (yeah, lottery odds again) that it was dumped somewhere else upriver and ended up in relatively the same spot as the hard drive? Maybe there is something in that area that "catches" stuff in the water as it flows by..sandbanks or weeds?


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  23. #12
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    BB was inaccurately quoted on the blonde part of the Butterworth sighting.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?


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  25. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllisonS View Post
    Or, and I know this is probably WAY too much coincidence...RG tossed the hard drive with all intentions of returning home to his life and buying a replacement hard drive...and then something went wrong (along the murder scenario here) and the persons responsible tossed the rest of the computer because they didn't want to leave it behind as possible evidence or didn't know what it was doing there and just wanted it gone.
    That is actually my thought in the murder scenario. It may not be that coincidental.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?


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  27. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    BB was inaccurately quoted on the blonde part of the Butterworth sighting.
    Ut Oh !!! Pray tell ...


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  29. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Chatterly View Post
    Ut Oh !!! Pray tell ...
    Blog up on it.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?


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