My personal thoughts on this case

I have to admit that I haven't been following up on this case. I know the guys took the Alford plea (I thought my boyfriend was pulling my chain when he read the article that said they were set free) but I have some problems I guess...in my brain at least.


1. I have ALWAYS been on the fence about this case now that I think about it. There are some things that don't add up but yet there are some things that do. It's just odd in that way (I don't need a theory or anything..I've read them all)

2. A BUNCH of celebrities jumped on this case. I guess it was from the documentaries. They threw money at the 3 and never looked back.

3. JMB DID act suspicious during the second Documentary but upon later viewing I noticed that he didn't seem guilty he seemed like a SERIOUSLY grieving man. I don't think JMB did this.

4. TH had some suspicious behaviour all along. I can't say whether he did it or not. Yes in theory the evidence adds up but there is no real evidence I suppose? I have never heard of anything about untying the laces. I know his hair was in the strings and on the bodies but ya know...with a case like this it seems like anything is possible.

5. Damien was always the outspoken one. I really want to hear what Jason and Jesse have to say about everything...like a candid interview so to speak. Neither one of them has REALLY talked. I'd love to hear their theories and whatnot if they are in fact innocent.

6. Jason and Damien are out of the country...They flew out of the country right away it seems. How do convicted felons get passports so fast? I know it's possible for felons to get a passport, but to get a passport and be a convicted MURDERER? I don't get it. I want to say again I'm on the fence, going towards they didn't commit this crime.

7. Jesse is having a hard time right now. What do you think he thinks about Damien and Jason traveling the world? I think it all goes down to him confessing and them not giving a crap about him. I wonder if there is something deeper here...

8. *and my final point*. Where the HELL did all the defense money go to? Peter Jackson donated 10 million dollars. That should be nearly enough to pay for the defense (which I read was doing it pro bono...sorry I don't have a link I read it here on websleuths). What happened to the other hundreds of thousands? Even if Johnny Depp and that Natalie girl donated money that would still cover defense. I doesn't cost a million bucks to do a blood test or DNA test. ALL that money had to be dispersed and I this it was dispersed into damiens and Lori's pockets.

I'm sorry if I came off as rude or whatever. I'm sorry if I was blunt. This stuff has just been bothering me for awhile. I don't think I need a real answer I just want everyone to think about what has happened.

Before you discount the costs of DNA testing, check out Bode's costs. Look at the mtDNA testing, which was done quite a bit. Remember the costs are multiplied times six (three victims and three defendants) for each item tested. They might be even higher if other people's DNA (like Terry Hobbs or JMB) was tested.

http://www.bodetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/DNA-Services-Pricing-2011.pdf

I'm not saying that every penny collected from supporters went to testing. I have no problem with Lori using some of the money for her living expenses. She was devoting all of her time to getting Damien and the others out, so she couldn't have a job. I don't think that there are stockpiles of money laying around in Lori's account, however. The DNA testing was enormously expensive, and Bode didn't offer their services pro bono. The enormous cost of this testing is why it took the "deep pockets" of Peter Jackson to "get 'er done" so to speak. In short, I don't have a problem with the money angle.

I would like to hear more from Jason and Jessie, too. However, in Jessie's case, he is still uncomfortable speaking before crowds and answering questions. This is typical for someone of his IQ level since his reasoning abilities are severely limited. Hell, he may even think that, were he to misspeak in some way, they could end up back in prison. Intelligent people know that won't happen because, right now, they stand convicted and when the convictions are overturned and they are exonerated, double jeopardy will kick in. They won't go back to prison for this crime, period. However, Jessie may not understand that. Jason has been speaking out a little more. Check out his Facebook page. Check out this interview:

[video=youtube;BWOiRVQ3ziE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWOiRVQ3ziE&feature=related[/video]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HXqtAnZTcg&feature=related"]WM3 on KATV (Part 2) - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4d29fWSajs&feature=related"]WM3 on KATV (Part 3) - YouTube[/ame]

(I believe Jason is in Part 3.)

As to "convicted killers" obtaining passports, remember that there were no travel restrictions placed on the guys when the Alford plea was entered. It was one of the conditions. So, all that needed to happen was for the country where they wanted to go to accept their application for admittance. In Damien's case, I read that Peter Jackson vouched for him. I don't know if anyone personally vouched for Jason, but for whatever reason, the Netherlands admitted him. Personally, I don't think that those governments would have admitted "killers." I think that the government officials were aware of the case and had come to the conclusion that the three were innocent and therefore posed no threat.

I don't think Jessie is upset at all by Damien and Jason traveling the globe (kinda a stretch, but you know what I mean). I think that he's probably happy for them. I know I am. Right now, I think Jessie is uncomfortable outside the "family circle," which is why he is still in Arkansas when even he said in an interview while still incarcerated (the one right after the new hearing was ordered) that the first thing he'd do if he ever got out was to leave Arkansas. I do hope that eventually he does leave the State. I don't think that he will ever get a fair break from the officials. Just look at what happened recently.

http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlo.../jessie-misskelley-forced-from-temporary-home

I won't address your other points in detail, and I'm sorry that I didn't address what I did in sequence. However, like you, I believe JMB is totally innocent and I believe TH killed those little kids. I respect your struggle, and I understand. If I can help in any way, PM me.

Missy G. There is a wealth of information and all of it is impartial (without comments from supporters or nons) on a site called Callahan.

http://callahan.8k.com/

The site contains the original documents, investigation, witness statements, Misskelley's confessions (in text or audio) the trials (Misskelley was tried alone and Echols/Baldwin were tried together)pleadings, and everything else up to (and including) the Alford Pleas.

Anything (nearly) that a supporter or a non states as a fact can be checked at Callahan's. That is what I did when I wanted to understand more about this case.

There is also a crime blog (Blink on Crime) that did a series (1 and 2) on this case. The series is excellent. And after reading it (and Callahan), I came to a conclusion concerning the WM3.

Blink on Crime is just another blogger. She has no credentials to back up her opinions any more than anyone who posts here. Simply put, I don't believe her information is unbiased. She is a non. Another site that has a lot of information, which I believe is reliable, is jivepuppi.com. You might check that out, if you haven't.

Compassionate Reader said:

Blink on Crime is just another blogger. She has no credentials to back up her opinions any more than anyone who posts here. Simply put, I don't believe her information is unbiased. She is a non. Another site that has a lot of information, which I believe is reliable, is jivepuppi.com. You might check that out, if you haven't.

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Hey, now there's something we totally agree on....LOL

Dysthymia said:

Missy G. There is a wealth of information and all of it is impartial (without comments from supporters or nons) on a site called Callahan.

http://callahan.8k.com/

The site contains the original documents, investigation, witness statements, Misskelley's confessions (in text or audio) the trials (Misskelley was tried alone and Echols/Baldwin were tried together)pleadings, and everything else up to (and including) the Alford Pleas.

Anything (nearly) that a supporter or a non states as a fact can be checked at Callahan's. That is what I did when I wanted to understand more about this case.

There is also a crime blog (Blink on Crime) that did a series (1 and 2) on this case. The series is excellent. And after reading it (and Callahan), I came to a conclusion concerning the WM3.

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Trust me, I know about all the sites...just because I have read a lot of information (and probably skipped some too) doesn't mean I have to come to a decision.
CR has really been a great mentor to me when it comes to this case and I have talked to her a lot off this website.

I am just really really bothered by how everything is turning out now that the 3 are released. It just seems like they're not getting equal treatment.

Also I'll go back to my main question, where is the defense fund? I checked out the crime lab link and sorry, it still shouldn't cost $10 million to do that DNA testing, even if everything was done 6 times. Also there was more money donated that wasn't donated by Peter Jackson.

Even if Lori dug into it to pay expenses and her supposed debt, where is the rest?

PS-Peter Jackson says that he's still going to fund the wm3 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/26/celebrities-demand-pardon-memphis-three) so IMO with his funding plus what is already in the defense fund, there shouldn't need to be anymore donations.

Anybody can set up a fund and ask for donations. The bottom line is - if you don't think its a worthy cause, don't contribute.

missy_g said:

Trust me, I know about all the sites...just because I have read a lot of information (and probably skipped some too) doesn't mean I have to come to a decision.
CR has really been a great mentor to me when it comes to this case and I have talked to her a lot off this website.

I am just really really bothered by how everything is turning out now that the 3 are released. It just seems like they're not getting equal treatment.

Also I'll go back to my main question, where is the defense fund? I checked out the crime lab link and sorry, it still shouldn't cost $10 million to do that DNA testing, even if everything was done 6 times. Also there was more money donated that wasn't donated by Peter Jackson.

Even if Lori dug into it to pay expenses and her supposed debt, where is the rest?

PS-Peter Jackson says that he's still going to fund the wm3 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/26/celebrities-demand-pardon-memphis-three) so IMO with his funding plus what is already in the defense fund, there shouldn't need to be anymore donations.

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Like was said above, just don't donate if you're unsure what's happening to the money. We have no idea how long it will take for all the problems in this case to be rectified. We need to provide living expenses for the guys until the convictions are removed from their records because, until then, they might have trouble getting jobs and/or housing. (Look at what happened to Jessie.) IMO, Peter Jackson shouldn't have to fund all of their living expenses. It's very generous of him to do so, but it shouldn't be solely his responsibility.

I just hope that the defense releases the information that they have soon. I'm confident that it will exonerate the guys and lead to the conviction of the real killer. However, we'll just have to be patient until that happens.

missy_g said:

I have to admit that I haven't been following up on this case. I know the guys took the Alford plea (I thought my boyfriend was pulling my chain when he read the article that said they were set free) but I have some problems I guess...in my brain at least.


1. I have ALWAYS been on the fence about this case now that I think about it. There are some things that don't add up but yet there are some things that do. It's just odd in that way (I don't need a theory or anything..I've read them all)

2. A BUNCH of celebrities jumped on this case. I guess it was from the documentaries. They threw money at the 3 and never looked back.

3. JMB DID act suspicious during the second Documentary but upon later viewing I noticed that he didn't seem guilty he seemed like a SERIOUSLY grieving man. I don't think JMB did this.

4. TH had some suspicious behaviour all along. I can't say whether he did it or not. Yes in theory the evidence adds up but there is no real evidence I suppose? I have never heard of anything about untying the laces. I know his hair was in the strings and on the bodies but ya know...with a case like this it seems like anything is possible.

5. Damien was always the outspoken one. I really want to hear what Jason and Jesse have to say about everything...like a candid interview so to speak. Neither one of them has REALLY talked. I'd love to hear their theories and whatnot if they are in fact innocent.

6. Jason and Damien are out of the country...They flew out of the country right away it seems. How do convicted felons get passports so fast? I know it's possible for felons to get a passport, but to get a passport and be a convicted MURDERER? I don't get it. I want to say again I'm on the fence, going towards they didn't commit this crime.

7. Jesse is having a hard time right now. What do you think he thinks about Damien and Jason traveling the world? I think it all goes down to him confessing and them not giving a crap about him. I wonder if there is something deeper here...

8. *and my final point*. Where the HELL did all the defense money go to? Peter Jackson donated 10 million dollars. That should be nearly enough to pay for the defense (which I read was doing it pro bono...sorry I don't have a link I read it here on websleuths). What happened to the other hundreds of thousands? Even if Johnny Depp and that Natalie girl donated money that would still cover defense. I doesn't cost a million bucks to do a blood test or DNA test. ALL that money had to be dispersed and I this it was dispersed into damiens and Lori's pockets.

I'm sorry if I came off as rude or whatever. I'm sorry if I was blunt. This stuff has just been bothering me for awhile. I don't think I need a real answer I just want everyone to think about what has happened.

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1. It is a very odd case even though I've never really been a fence sitter as I feel the three are innocent. Then again anything is possible and I wasn't there, so I can't be 100% sure they are.

2. A lot of celebs did jump on this case, but I think thats fairly common whenever anyone can get the word out that an innocent may be behind bars. This is the only such case that I do side with those celebs... Sorry Leonard Peltier, Amanda Knox and Mumia Abu Jamal supporters, I feel with a great bit of certainty they are all guilty as sin.

3. JMB didn't do himself any favors in the first 2 documentaries. I guess life has led me to be a bit more cynical about people. I don't feel JMB was a grieving parent near as much as he was showboating for the camera.

4. The TH theory so far is one of the better ones and he does have the most evidence against him so far. But is it enough to make me feel he did it beyond a reasonable doubt? Not even close.

5. I'd be curious also, I really feel I have heard enough from Damien's side of things. 99% of the interviews in prison and now out have been centered around Damien. I'm curious to hear an in depth interview with the others.

6. It certainly does seem odd, almost like some strings were pulled somehow... Maybe thats where a bit of all those millions of dollars went?

7. To me it just shows they are human and I'm sure regardless of what they say there are so bad feeling towards Jessie. Not that I could blame them if there is.

8. I'm pretty sure quite a bit of it did find it's way to Damiens and Lorris and maybe JB's pockets. I understand that die hard supporters want to practically deify them as they need them to be truly worth of all the time and in many cases money they have invested. But let's be truly honest here, these are three men who grew up in shoddy situations and then were wrongly convicted and sent to prison for 18 years, they are not saints and I'm sure they hid away some of the money. Again I can't blame them since I would have done the same.
:twocents:

I Must Break You said:

1. It is a very odd case even though I've never really been a fence sitter as I feel the three are innocent. Then again anything is possible and I wasn't there, so I can't be 100% sure they are.

Agreed. We are all, on both sides of the case, expressing our opinions as to what the evidence means. I've often heard that two eyewitnesses to an accident can give totally different accounts because of their perspective of the situation.

2. A lot of celebs did jump on this case, but I think thats fairly common whenever anyone can get the word out that an innocent may be behind bars. This is the only such case that I do side with those celebs... Sorry Leonard Peltier, Amanda Knox and Mumia Abu Jamal supporters, I feel with a great bit of certainty they are all guilty as sin.

Again, celebrities can color some people's opinions, but not mine. I form my own opinions. I disagree about Amanda Knox. I believe her to be innocent. However, I do agree about the others.

3. JMB didn't do himself any favors in the first 2 documentaries. I guess life has led me to be a bit more cynical about people. I don't feel JMB was a grieving parent near as much as he was showboating for the camera.

He was a grieving parent, but I will admit that he does seem to enjoy the spotlight.

4. The TH theory so far is one of the better ones and he does have the most evidence against him so far. But is it enough to make me feel he did it beyond a reasonable doubt? Not even close.

Agreed. However, I do think that more evidence exists, and that we will soon (hopefully) see that evidence.

5. I'd be curious also, I really feel I have heard enough from Damien's side of things. 99% of the interviews in prison and now out have been centered around Damien. I'm curious to hear an in depth interview with the others.

Jason is speaking out more and more. Jessie is another case altogether. He is simply too uncomfortable to appear in public, especially to be grilled, at least for now.

6. It certainly does seem odd, almost like some strings were pulled somehow... Maybe thats where a bit of all those millions of dollars went?

I don't know about Jason, but we all know that Peter Jackson vouched for Damien, and New Zealand granted his visa (or whatever it's called). Did money change hands? Possibly. However, if so, it was Peter Jackson's money, not money from the defense fund. I have a feeling that, for Jason, it was a similar situation. Some well-heeled citizen vouched for him and possibly put up private funds to make it happen. No defense funds were used.

7. To me it just shows they are human and I'm sure regardless of what they say there are so bad feeling towards Jessie. Not that I could blame them if there is.

IMO, they realize that Jessie, because of his mental disabilities, was easy prey for the likes of Gitchell in the interrogations. I don't think that Damien and Jason blame Jessie. Jessie may blame himself, however, which may account for some of his leeriness to speak.

8. I'm pretty sure quite a bit of it did find it's way to Damiens and Lorris and maybe JB's pockets. I understand that die hard supporters want to practically deify them as they need them to be truly worth of all the time and in many cases money they have invested. But let's be truly honest here, these are three men who grew up in shoddy situations and then were wrongly convicted and sent to prison for 18 years, they are not saints and I'm sure they hid away some of the money. Again I can't blame them since I would have done the same.
:twocents:

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I don't want to deify them at all. I recognize that they make mistakes. They just didn't kill those little boys. Yes, they all three grew up in horrible conditions. I'm hoping that the release is the beginning of better things for all three. Damien and Jason seem to have made a clean start. I just wish Jessie would do likewise. IMO, if he stays in Arkansas, the State will continue to hound him unmercifully until he either violates his SIS order, leaves the state or the SIS term is over.

One thing that bothers me about this case is the bloodied, confused man who was in the ladies' room of a restaurant near the crime scene. He sounds highly suspicious but LE didn't check him out that night and I believe by the time LE did so, the blood was washed off the restaurant's walls.

It seems too much of a coincidence for LE not to have investigated. He could have been involved in some way. He could be a witness, an escaped victim, or a killer?

This guy is the reason that so many of us wish the 3 had went through with the evidentiary hearing. He probably wasn't going to be brought up because if the defense had any evidence on him, we'd have heard about it by now, but I had hopes that someone would attempt to answer the questions surrounding him. This guy will probably always be a mystery but who he was and what he was doing that night is something that I'll always be troubled over.

I posted this to Damien's thread and decided it needed to go in the proper thread but there wasn't one that I could find for this man.

As I said in the other thread, I wonder, too. Thanks to the loss of the evidence by the WMPD (specifically by Bryn Ridge, IIRC), we may never know.

That evidence only helped the defense, it did not hurt them at all. It gave them reasonable to doubt to blame someone else as they usually do have been doing for years.

What evidence? It was lost! If there had been evidence, it could have been used to establish reasonable doubt. For that reason, IMO the loss of such evidence is highly suspicious.

Whilst the senior partners of the various law firms may well have been acting pro bono (as I believe they were) there were still a lot of other costs aside from the forensic testing. It can not be expected that legal secretaries etc all work for nothing. Nor, indeed, the attornies who were retained in Arkansas.

Then there were the costs of the investigations and examinations of both the homes of the Byers and the Hobbs, the digging up of the swimming pool -- it all adds up.

Plus of course the flights and hotel costs for all the trips to see their clients and also court appearances as well as face to face conferences; expert witness fees, costs etcetera. It all adds up very quickly indeed! Just basic office costs for duplicating, transcribing, postage; not to mention filing fees for court documents. The admin list is endless!

The only reservations I had had about the fund a good while back was that as DE's wife LD had a vested interest in putting his case first (understandably) but that does mean that I think for a moment that she may have been fraudulant in her actions!

If she accounted for the fund properly, there wouldn't need to be all this speculation.

AngelontheRiver said:

If she accounted for the fund properly, there wouldn't need to be all this speculation.

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I believe there was an uproar over the missing funds and I read about it in a news article. It's posted on this board.

I thought the supporters wanted to know why the funds were only going toward Echols and not the others.

I guess because Mrs. Echols was in charge of the convict funds. I thought she had paid a 100k phone bill. Can you imagine spending that much on phone calls? Maybe some of the funds went for her care and living as well since she was at the head of the not-for-profit.

Here is the link to the article:
Supporters of W. Memphis trio feud over funds for defendants
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/jan/17/money-at-root-of-effort-to-free-3/

IIRC, the "uproar" lasted about a month. The lawyers arranged the fund so that no one had to be wary of such a thing. Nothing was ever proven to have been untoward. It was all speculation.

missy_g said:

PS-Peter Jackson says that he's still going to fund the wm3 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/26/celebrities-demand-pardon-memphis-three) so IMO with his funding plus what is already in the defense fund, there shouldn't need to be anymore donations.

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I'm going to go out on a limb here to suggest that Peter Jackson would probably be the first person to raise a flag if he thought his donation was not being dispersed properly. I also doubt he would state he will continue to fund them if he observed them lining their pockets with it. I am sure the people making donations of this size know full well how it is being used and are content with it.