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Thread: Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #7

  1. #76
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    Arrow Who's on first? Cynthia Baldwin

    Perjury prelim hearing transcript has excerpts from Jan.2011 Gr.Jury transcript, in which both Curley and Schultz introduce Cynthia Baldwin, accompanying them as "counsel" to each of them.

    She is Vice President and General Counsel for Penn State University and a former Justice of the Penn Supreme Court.

    The perjury transcript shows, at Dec. 2011 prelim hearing, Curley was rep'ed by his own counsel, Ms Roberto, and
    Schultz is rep'ed by Mr Farrell.

    No more U. counsel for them.

    I wonder who is paying their tabs now.

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  3. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipstaff View Post
    Paterno was disingenuous in his testimony. The only point he even attempted to make was that Sandusky wasn't a coach, had been a coach briefly and he wasn't associated with Sandusky.

    We all know this isn't true. There was a point in time that certain people thought Sandusky was heading toward being the head coach at Penn State. Joe Paterno has been the "Power" at Penn State and the way he passed this off to his 'boss' is simply his own CYA.

    The questioning of Paterno was so poor it could have been completed by a 5th grader.

    This grand jury questioning of Paterno shows the reverential treatment he received in and around Penn State.

    Paterno looks even worse after reading his testimony - HE WAITED before bringing this to the attention of his boss because it was the weekend. Wonder if JoPA would have waited if this were his kids or grandkids.
    Can I pick out one sentence (BBM) in your post and add this: Jerry's entire hometown and former high school classmates expected he was to take over for Joe as head coach. There was a great disappointment and rumors that mean old Joe took back his promise when we all learned Jerry had retired because he found out he wasn't going to be head coach at PSU. That's the story we all heard.

    So, it was more than certain people, it was a hell of a lot of people in Washington, PA who were counting on Jerry to be next in line. I know, I was a classmate of his. And Jerry's retirement was a shock and Joe was labled a louse. But, now, sadly we have a better idea of what really happened. just my O.
    The Hokey Pokey Clinic - A good place to turn yourself around:

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  5. #78
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    One section of the perjury preliminary hearing transcript was very interesting to me...the testimony of Agent Sassano of the AG's office.

    For one thing, he stated they didn't learn about the 2002 incident until Nov. 2010. It seems as the AG's office began their investigation they learned of one child from another child, except for this case which has been indicated came from an anonymous source.

    Another statement he made was about how the CYS and police department worked together, as I had thought and as has been my personal experience. He stated:

    A. Well, CYS, as you know, cannot file charges. They do an investigation. They cannot actually file charges, so they work in conjunction with the police department.

    Q. So, by what you just said, you don't know if there was any sort of investigation by CYS independent of a police department?

    A. Independent of a police department, no. They do them with the police department. It's a joint venture....It's one and the same essentially.

    I will add that not all CYS cases are worked with the police dept. Most of the time, it's a situation that can be handled by CYS, such as working with the family with the children in the home, placing the child in a relative's home with the agreement of the parent, removing the child to emergency shelter and filing for state custody with the juvenile court. However, if CYS feels a crime such as sexual abuse has been committed, they refer to either the police department (or in my state the State's Attorney); at times the police dept. has the case first and calls CYS in to handle the children and their placement. But information is shared in order to have the best placement and to prepare for court. Very seldom does the CYS worker have to actually testify (altho I've testified before a GJ) but the police dept./SA's office gathers their evidence from actual witnesses of the abuse, parents, doctors, hospital records, and the child/children.
    Last edited by Reader; 12-26-2011 at 02:56 AM.

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  7. #79
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    Second Mile’s Insurance Company Wants Nothing To Do With Jerry Sandusky

    http://deadspin.com/jerry-sandusky/

    You know you are having a bad year when even an insurance company looks at you with that "yeeesh" look. Well, that is essentially what attorneys for Federal Insurance—the company that insures Second Mile—did in their recently filed lawsuit in federal court in Williamsport. The complaint argues that Federal Insurance should not have to pay legal expenses or fees for Sandusky because it "would be wrong...because he is accused of conduct that did not involve his position as an executive or employee of The Second Mile, a charity for at-risk youth he founded in 1977."

    Perhaps Federal Insurance has not read the grand jury presentment in its entirety—one could argue that coach Sandusky is accused of conduct that is at the very heart, and possibly the sole purpose, of the "charity for at-risk youth he founded in 1977."


    Amendola has his usual face-palm inducing response....geesh!


    More at link...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reader View Post
    Second Mile’s Insurance Company Wants Nothing To Do With Jerry Sandusky

    http://deadspin.com/jerry-sandusky/

    You know you are having a bad year when even an insurance company looks at you with that "yeeesh" look. Well, that is essentially what attorneys for Federal Insurance—the company that insures Second Mile—did in their recently filed lawsuit in federal court in Williamsport. The complaint argues that Federal Insurance should not have to pay legal expenses or fees for Sandusky because it "would be wrong...because he is accused of conduct that did not involve his position as an executive or employee of The Second Mile, a charity for at-risk youth he founded in 1977."

    Perhaps Federal Insurance has not read the grand jury presentment in its entirety—one could argue that coach Sandusky is accused of conduct that is at the very heart, and possibly the sole purpose, of the "charity for at-risk youth he founded in 1977."


    Amendola has his usual face-palm inducing response....geesh!


    More at link...
    Well Jerry is 'repugnant'.

    More likely the insurance company is seeing the writing on the wall - so many children 'allegedly' abused by Sandusky and so many charges he needs to be defended from. If Sandusky is found guilty or takes a plea just imagine the money.

    Looks like a preemptive strike by the insurance company.

    Who is paying Amendola at this point Sandysky or this Insurance Company? And further if it is the insurance company does prevail does Amendola quit if Sandusky can't pay?

    This begs the question does the State of Pennsylvania have to give Sandusky a Public Defender? IIRC isn't the house up as part of Sandusky's bond?

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  11. #81
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    attorney playing musical chairs?

    The quote below is from abovethelaw.com, from a poster responding to http://abovethelaw.com/2011/11/joe-p...#disqus_thread a Nov, 10th article. Maybe most everyone else saw this back then, but I missed it.

    Take a
    look at the attorney/general counsel for Second Mile. Who was the
    attorney for Penn State at the time of the first Sandusky incident in
    1999. That attorney - Wendall Courtney - he left Penn
    State to be counsel for Second Mile. I want to be clear that he left a
    nationally ranked university to become general counsel for the charity
    of a guy (Sandusky) that Courtney knew was alleged to have raped a 10
    year old. BBM

    I cannot vouch for truth of the stmt.
    But if true, once he was at 2d Mile, what did Wendall do, what steps did he take, who did he notify -- the Bd/Tee's, the ED, etc. re what he knew about Jer?
    Wonder what the ethics rules say, about what, if anything, he could lawfully disclose?

    Who are Mandated Reporters re suspected child abuse in PA?

    A possible clash btwn atty Ethics rules and mandated reporters reqmts?
    Last edited by al66pine; 12-27-2011 at 12:31 AM.

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  13. #82
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    I just saw a blurb on HLN about a family friend that said sandusky's wife was concerned someone would take jerry the wrong way. I searched the HLN site but couldn't find anything. Did anyone catch it? So hard to search on phone. TIA

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    Quote Originally Posted by TobyWong* View Post
    I just saw a blurb on HLN about a family friend that said sandusky's wife was concerned someone would take jerry the wrong way. I searched the HLN site but couldn't find anything. Did anyone catch it? So hard to search on phone. TIA
    Just did a google search and the last statements from Mrs. Sandusky are Dec. 10. Nothing currently.

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    Per the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette today another Civil Law Suit has been filed against Sandusky. This information is part of the article in which the Insurance Company files an action to NOT pay for Sandusky's legal costs. Link follows.
    .

    "The insurance lawsuit was filed Friday, the day after notice of the second civil suit was filed by a man who claimed Mr. Sandusky had sexually abused him.

    The man was identified in court filings as "C. Miller." He filed notice Thursday in Philadelphia of an impending lawsuit against the retired coach. The lawsuit also names Penn State and The Second Mile as defendants.

    Mr. Sandusky has denied all criminal and civil charges against him."



    Read more: http://postgazette.com/pg/11361/1199...#ixzz1hjySB28S

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    Quote Originally Posted by TobyWong* View Post
    I just saw a blurb on HLN about a family friend that said sandusky's wife was concerned someone would take jerry the wrong way. I searched the HLN site but couldn't find anything. Did anyone catch it? So hard to search on phone. TIA
    I didn't see the HLN story, but it sounds like they're basing their story on this article from pennlive.com that came out last night:

    http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...fe_dottie.html

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  21. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by al66pine View Post
    The quote below is from abovethelaw.com, from a poster responding to http://abovethelaw.com/2011/11/joe-p...#disqus_thread a Nov, 10th article. Maybe most everyone else saw this back then, but I missed it.

    Take a
    look at the attorney/general counsel for Second Mile. Who was the
    attorney for Penn State at the time of the first Sandusky incident in
    1999. That attorney - Wendall Courtney - he left Penn
    State to be counsel for Second Mile. I want to be clear that he left a
    nationally ranked university to become general counsel for the charity
    of a guy (Sandusky) that Courtney knew was alleged to have raped a 10
    year old. BBM

    I cannot vouch for truth of the stmt.
    But if true, once he was at 2d Mile, what did Wendall do, what steps did he take, who did he notify -- the Bd/Tee's, the ED, etc. re what he knew about Jer? Wonder what the ethics rules say, about what, if anything, he could lawfully disclose?

    Who are Mandated Reporters re suspected child abuse in PA?

    A possible clash btwn atty Ethics rules and mandated reporters reqmts?
    In answer to your question, I suppose it boils down to a choice as to who or what to believe. Do you believe all of these CYA statements from various board members and officials of TSM?

    Former board members of Jerry Sandusky’s charity say its CEO never told them about a 2002 shower incident that is the focus of child sexual abuse charges against the retired Penn State assistant coach. If they knew Sandusky had been banned from bringing kids on campus, they say they could have taken steps to better protect children a decade ago.

    “Not one thing was said to us,’’ said Bradley P. Lunsford, a Centre County judge who served on the Second Mile board between 2001 and 2005. “Not a damn thing.’’

    http://articles.boston.com/2011-12-1...le-joe-paterno
    Or do you believe as I do, that a board member would have to be brain dead to escape any awareness of this freak's actions?


    But there is nothing covered up that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known. Accordingly, whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed upon the housetops. Luke 12, 2-3


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  23. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by BennyProfane View Post
    I didn't see the HLN story, but it sounds like they're basing their story on this article from pennlive.com that came out last night:

    http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...fe_dottie.html
    Yes, this is it. Thank you.


    from article:
    She did talk to Jerry. She had concerns just that — I think she was concerned that people could perceive things the wrong way,” he said. “Not child rape, that’s a whole different category. But I think she generally had some concern that someone could falsely accuse him. He had problems with the boundary issue.”

    She knew enough to have a talk w/ him. It was on her mind. She knew he went to far. IMO. "problems w/ the boundary issue" yeah that's a given. imo

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  25. #88
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    Compared with other Penn State characters, the Sanduskys may have very little income- pension of about $60K (which he may lose), $57K as a contract from Second Mile until recently. An early story said he took out a $25K mortgage on his house last year that might have been Amendola's retainer.
    So, could Dottie afford a housekeeper or did she clean that basement bedoom herself? Who did the laundry?
    To be oblivious, I think Dottie had to be sedated- booze? Pills? Religion? Battered?

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  27. #89
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    Arrow What did Atty Wendall tell 2d Mile Bd?

    Several posts upthread re 2d Mile, Concerned Papa [Thank you, Papa] said:

    "...Or do you believe as I do, that a board member would have to be brain dead to escape any awareness of this freak's actions?"

    I think even brain dead bd members wd be aware, as long as they had not yet bn put six feet under.

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  29. #90
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    Arrow

    The punch line:
    Which version makes U sound less culpable re coming civil trials re allowing JerSan to (…um, allegedly…er) commit and cont. committing ChSexAb acts on its campus for years? ---
    --- Jer accepted U's offer of 'enhanced ret. package' and retired in 1999 with no other motivation, which is what came out in GrJury proceeding.
    --- After being made aware in 1998 of evidence of Jer’s perversion, U asked him to leave quietly, which is widely circulated rumor, at least now.

    The lead-in:
    Jan 2011 GrJury, both Curley and Schultz said they were accompanied by Cynthia Baldwin, as counsel, U VP and gen counsel, who was also former Justice of Pa Supreme Court.
    Atty from AG’s ofc. questioned Schultz about JerSan's departure from the U, eliciting this ---in 1998 for a certain time only, JerSan was eligible for an enhanced ret. Package, a ret. incentive, and he ret’ed. He also asked if there were other reasons JerSan retired then. Schultz said no.

    Why the questions? Are these answers, Just the Facts, Ma'am, or something more?

    Does anyone detect the hand of U counsel, before the GrJury proceeding, prompting Schultz to squeeze into his answers that ’ret. incentive’ bit and to deny any other motivations for JerSan ret. then.

    BTW, anyone know if U offered ret. w. incentives in 1998-99?

    Was this to draw attention away from actual reason for JerSan's retirement at that time?

    The back story, thru MSM:
    After 1998 JerSan & boy 'sharing shower' (and maybe after CYS & LE investigation of same),
    did JoePa tell JerSan he thought is “best to make a coaching change” quoting Schultz, p. 209.
    Is that when (~June 1998) & how JerSan learned he wd never be head coach & 'decided' to retire?

    Again:
    Which version makes U sound less culpable re coming civil trials re allowing JerSan to (…um, allegedly…er) commit and cont. committing ChSexAb acts on its campus for years? ---
    --- JerSan accepted U's offer of 'enhanced ret. package' and retired in 1999 with no other motivation.
    --- After being made aware in 1998 of evidence of JerSan’s shower sharing w boys and other ChSexAb on campus, U asked him to leave quietly.

    Yeah, enhanced ret. package, that's the ticket. Yeah, that's why JerSan left when he did.

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  31. #91
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    Arrow thesecondmile.org

    From the organization's website, with my bolding *& color added to text:

    Prevention

    "Effective prevention programs provide strategies that significantly influence children's behavior and skills through hands-on education, positive role models, and skill-building activities. The philosophy of The Second Mile prevention programs is that "it is easier to develop a child than to rehabilitate an adult." These programs are designed to help large numbers of students acquire the coping skills and positive values they need for healthy development."

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  33. #92
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    Not sure how I missed this little gem of an article:

    Second Mile Camp Had Cross Dressing

    A former Berks County camp operator speaks about summer camp programs run by the Second Mile, the foundation started by former Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky.

    "Camp counselors cross dressing for one of the evening events with children. The following year now they [had] some of the boys cross dressing," he says.

    Lehr also said shower curtains would be taken down when Second Mile was at the camp.

    "In hindsight you kind of look back and give it a second thought now," he says.

    http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/sport...ressing-111411
    Looks like this camp operator dude can get in that "I didn't know nothing" line with all the other board members and officials who are claiming they were "shocked, I tell ya, shocked" when the chit hit the fan on this freak. Cross dressing and shower curtains off and this genius is trying to claim it took hindsight for him to figure out something was wrong?



    I've got a feeling a jury or two is going to have the opportunity to consider whether this kind of ignorance claim is logical or actionable.


    But there is nothing covered up that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known. Accordingly, whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed upon the housetops. Luke 12, 2-3


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  35. #93
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    Dottie Sandusky Maintains Her Husband’s Innocence, May Go On Oprah With Him

    http://deadspin.com/jerry-sandusky/

    Dottie Sandusky, who publicly defended her husband's innocence for the first time earlier this month, may join Jerry for another televised interview after the new year. Jerry Sandusky's lawyer, Joe Amendola, told the Harrisburg Patriot-News this week that the two may sit down with Oprah, Barbara Walters, or even return to Brian Williams's Rock Center—since the first visit went so very well.
    -----

    Sandusky's attorney, Joe Amendola, said Dottie Sandusky doesn't have an attorney and sees no need for one.


    More at link....

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  37. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by TobyWong* View Post
    Yes, this is it. Thank you.


    from article:
    She did talk to Jerry. She had concerns just that — I think she was concerned that people could perceive things the wrong way,” he said. “Not child rape, that’s a whole different category. But I think she generally had some concern that someone could falsely accuse him. He had problems with the boundary issue.”

    She knew enough to have a talk w/ him. It was on her mind. She knew he went to far. IMO. "problems w/ the boundary issue" yeah that's a given. imo
    OMG ~ and that wins my prize for Understatement of the Year!

    I'm the proud mother of a new attorney!
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    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing ~ Edmund Burke
    Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. ~ Mark Twain

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  39. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reader View Post
    Dottie Sandusky Maintains Her Husband’s Innocence, May Go On Oprah With Him

    http://deadspin.com/jerry-sandusky/

    Dottie Sandusky, who publicly defended her husband's innocence for the first time earlier this month, may join Jerry for another televised interview after the new year. Jerry Sandusky's lawyer, Joe Amendola, told the Harrisburg Patriot-News this week that the two may sit down with Oprah, Barbara Walters, or even return to Brian Williams's Rock Center—since the first visit went so very well.
    -----

    Sandusky's attorney, Joe Amendola, said Dottie Sandusky doesn't have an attorney and sees no need for one.


    More at link....
    Their lawyer must be insane to let them talk with Oprah or anybody else!

    Don't they know that Oprah is a child-abuse survivor herself? And she'll probably have Dr. Phil or someone on there with her asking questions too.

    I'm the proud mother of a new attorney!
    It's better to know some of the questions than all of the answers. ~ James Thurber
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing ~ Edmund Burke
    Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. ~ Mark Twain

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  41. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThoughtFox View Post
    Their lawyer must be insane to let them talk with Oprah or anybody else!

    Don't they know that Oprah is a child-abuse survivor herself? And she'll probably have Dr. Phil or someone on there with her asking questions too.
    Their lawyer hasn't proven to be a mensa candidate so far. JMO
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  43. #97
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    http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind..._about_th.html

    The Patriot News has cobbled together an e-book called "Hear No Evil"- for sale through Amazon's Kindle for $2.99. I've just finished reading it and am disappointed- the news part ends November 19th with Paterno's cancer announcement and the entire text is mostly football and sentimental social comment-I hoped for some new hard news but didn't notice anything new about the criminal case and the account ends before either perliminary hearing.

    So this makes me a vulture? Maybe.
    I'd rather have donated the entire $3 to a victims charity.

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  45. #98
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    Sandusky Adding New Lawyer For Suits

    http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/sport...wyer-for-suits

    .......His criminal defense lawyer, Joe Amendola, said Friday he had not seen the complaint, filed in federal court in Williamsport. Amendola said Sandusky was served Wednesday with a lawsuit filed in Philadelphia by one alleged victim and was getting a different lawyer to represent him in civil cases.

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  47. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Concerned Papa View Post
    In answer to your question, I suppose it boils down to a choice as to who or what to believe. Do you believe all of these CYA statements from various board members and officials of TSM?



    Or do you believe as I do, that a board member would have to be brain dead to escape any awareness of this freak's actions?
    I don't know. To me, it's easier to believe that Raykovitz kept all of his knowledge to himself than to suggest all of the board members are lying.

    Having served on a board for a local social service agency, I knew nothing about the day-to-day operations, nor would I have been aware of any rumors or scuttlebutt.

    Judge Lunsford was a respected jurist in the area - would he really have been so committed to protecting Sandusky or the Second Mile that he would have placed himself in such a position? Again, in my opinion, it is more likely that Sandusky's actions weren't widely shared with the board members, even if only out of concern that one rogue member might have taken action.

    There may have been an inner circle with whom information was shared, but I doubt it was known among the rank-and-file. Most of them just weren't invested enough to have purposefully looked the other way.
    "I believe it is an established maxim in morals that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false, is guilty of falsehood; and the accidental truth of the assertion, does not justify or excuse him." - Abraham Lincoln

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  49. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rlaub44 View Post
    I don't know. To me, it's easier to believe that Raykovitz kept all of his knowledge to himself than to suggest all of the board members are lying.

    Having served on a board for a local social service agency, I knew nothing about the day-to-day operations, nor would I have been aware of any rumors or scuttlebutt.

    Judge Lunsford was a respected jurist in the area - would he really have been so committed to protecting Sandusky or the Second Mile that he would have placed himself in such a position? Again, in my opinion, it is more likely that Sandusky's actions weren't widely shared with the board members, even if only out of concern that one rogue member might have taken action.

    There may have been an inner circle with whom information was shared, but I doubt it was known among the rank-and-file. Most of them just weren't invested enough to have purposefully looked the other way.
    I suppose anything's possible, but I've got a problem in buying into the notion of an abundance of ignorance on the part of these TSM board members and officials.

    Take this Judge for example.

    In a place no bigger than his circuit or area, do you really think it's likely or even logical that more than one child rape investigation of the public figurehead of an organization he is a board member of would escape his awareness? Do you really think he doesn't have a friend in LE, CPS or the SA's office who wouldn't make him aware of what was being looked into for his own reputation's sake?

    How about TSM's CEO, Dr. Jack Raykovitz? According to the grand jury report, he knew about the investigations into this freak's actions. Are you really suggesting that he wouldn't and didn't make any of the other board members aware of the issue? Do you think he at least told his wife, the longest term employee in the organization?

    Last, but certainly not least, we have Attorney Wendall Courtney who was aware of the whole enchilada regarding TSM's public figurehead. He's supposed to have come on board as their counsel and not made the board aware of these investigations? Aside from the basic moral obligations at play, I'm of the opinion that there were certain fiduciary responsibilities on his part in making the organization aware of what had been/was being investigated. How likely or logical is it that an attorney would have been so committed to protecting Sandusky that he would have placed himself in such a position of not telling ANYONE?

    The FACTS that have been coming out have shown us that aside from MANY VICTIMS and their families, janitors, coaches, high school principals, and teachers knew about this freak. Members of LE, District Attorneys, State Attorneys, and even a Gubernatorial candidate knew about this freak.

    Yet somehow, these wealthy captains of industry, jurists, and intellectual scholars who made up TSM's board of directors and trustees were supposed to have been in blissful ignorance of what this animal was doing to the children of The Second Mile? I'll even give them the benefit of the doubt that possibly they believed in "the greater good" of the organization or something of that sort, but there's no way I can believe the Judge Lunsford's of this mess who are singing loud and strong that “Not one thing was said to us, Not a damn thing.’’

    I can't buy it.


    But there is nothing covered up that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known. Accordingly, whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed upon the housetops. Luke 12, 2-3


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