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Thread: CT - Five die in Stamford Christmas Day fire 2011.12.25

  1. #101
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    Deadly Connecticut Fire Started by Ashes Removed for Santa

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/03...#ixzz1iSTFsRDA


    NEW HAVEN, Conn. – "Smoldering embers blamed for a Christmas morning house fire that killed three girls and their grandparents had been taken out of a fireplace so the children would not worry about Santa Claus coming down the chimney, two officials told The Associated Press Tuesday."

    "Two officials briefed on the investigation say the ashes were removed out of concerns for Santa. They spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity Tuesday because the investigation is still under way."

    "Authorities say embers in a bag of discarded ashes started the blaze in Stamford that killed 10-year-old Lilly and 7-year-old twins Grace and Sarah Badger and their grandparents, Lomer and Pauline Johnson."

    "The girls' mother, Madonna Badger, escaped the fire along with a friend, Michael Borcina. Borcina and Badger were treated at a local hospital and released."

    "Fire officials have said Borcina is believed to have placed the ashes in or outside an entryway, near the trash."

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  3. #102
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    My mind boggles. So they were concerned about Santa? Were they concerned Santa could get burned coming down the chimney? Shouldn't they have been worried about their home going up in flames instead?
    Just my opinion

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  5. #103
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    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/a...-fire-15283179

    Excerpt:

    Stamford police are helping fire officials investigate the blaze. Police said Monday officials want to know if there were smoke alarms, the status of renovation work in the house and whether the contractor had permits.

    The issue of permits could figure in the investigation because the Connecticut Department of Consumer Protection has said that neither Borcina nor his company, Tiberias Construction Inc., was registered to perform home improvement work in Connecticut.

    Contractors are required to register with the state, though numerous building and other permits are issued by local officials.

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  7. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    My mind boggles. So they were concerned about Santa? Were they concerned Santa could get burned coming down the chimney? Shouldn't they have been worried about their home going up in flames instead?
    Were the adults all drinking heavily that evening? That's the only explanation I can come up with for such an innane thing to do. If they had placed them in a metal bucket and put it outside away from the house they'd all still be alive.
    Last edited by Snick1946; 01-05-2012 at 12:12 PM.
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    I keep reading "bag"..... were ashes and embers really put into a paper or plastic bag? Such a sad story but I can't believe anyone would put hot ashes/embers into a bag and keep it in the house.

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  11. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeMustPrevail View Post
    The container might have been metal and rusted. Maybe an hot ember popped out? If the container was smoldering, then why place it on the foyer floor? A contractor didn't know that this was a dangerous thing?
    IMO He had to know. I wonder why he did not have 15.00 battery smoke detectors at the very least placed around the house.Seems very suspect to me.Wiped out her whole family all she has left is her brother.Did he do it on purpose?He should have known better IMO.
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    I have gone in circles on this case, first impulse was that something was hinky, then after reading news reports decided it was a stupid tragic accident. Now I think if I were LE, I'd be digging into financial frecords on both the boyfriend and mom. Did either benefit from these deaths? Could the BF have felt the kids were in the way? And I agree that at the very least the BF needs to be prosecuted for manslaughter. How stupid can you be?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeysmommom View Post
    IMO He had to know. I wonder why he did not have 15.00 battery smoke detectors at the very least placed around the house.Seems very suspect to me.Wiped out her whole family all she has left is her brother.Did he do it on purpose?He should have known better IMO.
    BBM she should have known better too, don't you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by miimaa View Post
    I keep reading "bag"..... were ashes and embers really put into a paper or plastic bag? Such a sad story but I can't believe anyone would put hot ashes/embers into a bag and keep it in the house.
    I keep wondering the same thing. Who would put ashes in anything I would call a "bag"?

    And if they were thinking clearly enough to put ashes outside the house, why didn't they think about a proper container?

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    Not only did he use just a bag to contain the embers, I've read several articles that said he placed the bag not at the entrance foyer, but at the back foyer, near the trash....now that is not only stupid but seems almost deliberate....especially his being a contractor he well knows something about preventing fires with all the materials, solvents, paint, etc. the crews have to use.

    I read they had the girls' funeral today and there were hundreds attending....I hope the mother is getting the support she needs and will need for a long time.

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    the reports of the service are gutwrenching. ms. badger eulogized her ''little girl tribe.''

    the photos of the parents, even moreso. and borcina is right there in many of them....hand on the mother's shoulder. for some reason, that bothered me.

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  23. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by doubt View Post
    the reports of the service are gutwrenching. ms. badger eulogized her ''little girl tribe.''

    the photos of the parents, even moreso. and borcina is right there in many of them....hand on the mother's shoulder. for some reason, that bothered me.
    Lots about this thing bother me. Hope the Stamford PD is not solely in charge of the investigation. This thing needs a darn good going over, financial transactions, phone records, you name it.
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  25. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie in Spokane View Post
    Deadly Connecticut Fire Started by Ashes Removed for Santa

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/03...#ixzz1iSTFsRDA


    NEW HAVEN, Conn. "Smoldering embers blamed for a Christmas morning house fire that killed three girls and their grandparents had been taken out of a fireplace so the children would not worry about Santa Claus coming down the chimney, two officials told The Associated Press Tuesday."

    "Two officials briefed on the investigation say the ashes were removed out of concerns for Santa. They spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity Tuesday because the investigation is still under way."

    "Authorities say embers in a bag of discarded ashes started the blaze in Stamford that killed 10-year-old Lilly and 7-year-old twins Grace and Sarah Badger and their grandparents, Lomer and Pauline Johnson."

    "The girls' mother, Madonna Badger, escaped the fire along with a friend, Michael Borcina. Borcina and Badger were treated at a local hospital and released."

    "Fire officials have said Borcina is believed to have placed the ashes in or outside an entryway, near the trash."
    I had suspected this is why the ashes were removed. So sad.

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  27. #114
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    tragic accident!

    case-in-point: I was living with my beau at the time & he was gone, so one lonely evening I started a fire & opened a bottle of wine. I knew he hated that I started the fireplace without him, so prior to him returning, stoopyd me placed the ashes in a BAG (duh) and "hid" the embers (I should have looked) on his wooden deck. Not 30 mins later I smelled the creosote burning & the bag burned a hole through the wooden deck.

    I had some explaining to do but I could have BURNED his house down unintentionally!

    Praying for all involved . . .
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  29. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by doubt View Post
    the reports of the service are gutwrenching. ms. badger eulogized her ''little girl tribe.''

    the photos of the parents, even moreso. and borcina is right there in many of them....hand on the mother's shoulder. for some reason, that bothered me.
    BBM. Mr. Borcina bothers me a lot. From his absolute stupidity with the ashes to the moronic comments he made after the fire. I know everyone grieves differently, but he sure doesn't seem too broken up by the deaths that he inadvertently caused. If I was the mother I don't think I could stay with him.

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  31. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reader View Post
    Not only did he use just a bag to contain the embers, I've read several articles that said he placed the bag not at the entrance foyer, but at the back foyer, near the trash....now that is not only stupid but seems almost deliberate....especially his being a contractor he well knows something about preventing fires with all the materials, solvents, paint, etc. the crews have to use.

    I read they had the girls' funeral today and there were hundreds attending....I hope the mother is getting the support she needs and will need for a long time.
    no way . . . just a tragic accident IMHO only

    sad all around . . .
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  33. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by krimekat View Post
    no way . . . just a tragic accident IMHO only

    sad all around . . .
    I think authorities could charge him with negligence (if these ashes were really put into the bag and then placed near the trash) if they really wanted to. Although I think people are rarely charged for doing things like that (leaving candles unattended, smoking a cigarette in bed, etc) that lead to fires, so I don't think we will see any charges. My neighbor's house burned down because of a candle, but they all got out. It amazes people how people would leave candles unattended even if they have pets that could knock them down and cause a fire.
    Just my opinion

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  35. #118
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    Something's seemed hinky about this one since I posted the thread Christmas morning. But hey - I don't know really.

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  37. #119
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    This is a sketchy blog looking site, but there are some interesting comments about Borcina here. I found the link in the coments of a NY Post article.

    http://mommysdirtylittlesecret.com/2...adgers-family/
    Last edited by October; 01-07-2012 at 12:22 AM.

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  39. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by October View Post
    This is a sketchy blog looking site, but there are some interesting comments about Borcina here. I found the link in the coments of a NY Post article.

    http://mommysdirtylittlesecret.com/2...adgers-family/
    Very interesting comments from people who worked for him saying he was impossible to work for, shorted their pay and was not concerned with safety...

    One comment mentioned something I have wondered about also....when Borcina was bringing the 2 girls down the stairs and says they panicked and ran back, why wasn't he holding on to them or even holding them in his arms?..they were small enough that he could have picked them up to carry.

    This is just such a shame and was so preventable..I feel so sorry for the girls father also.

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    http://www.wwd.com/media-news/advert...ghters-5458460

    Madonna Badger Eulogizes Her Three Daughters

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsu View Post
    http://www.wwd.com/media-news/advert...ghters-5458460

    Madonna Badger Eulogizes Her Three Daughters
    My heart breaks for this mother. I admire her strength and conviction to find some sort of meaning in this tragedy. Her words describing her daughters are poignant and eloquent as is her pledge to keep their memory and love alive. Apparently a foundation has been started, "The Other 364", to promote compassion in everyday life, as a tribute to the Badger girls. What an amazing way to start to heal this unbearable sorrow.
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  45. #123
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    Before posting I took the time to read all the articles available relative to this tragedy in addition to the WS posts.

    My opinion - something is NOT right.

    "..not random at all...maybe like there's some pattern here..."
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  47. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by October View Post
    BBM. Mr. Borcina bothers me a lot. From his absolute stupidity with the ashes to the moronic comments he made after the fire. I know everyone grieves differently, but he sure doesn't seem too broken up by the deaths that he inadvertently caused. If I was the mother I don't think I could stay with him.


    BBM

    In fairness, none of us know what they are going through. There is no way to know how he is taking it, unless we followed him around 24/7. I'm sure he is feeling an enormous amount of guilt over this tragedy, IF it was an accident. I believe it to be an accident, until evidence showing otherwise comes out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reader View Post
    Very interesting comments from people who worked for him saying he was impossible to work for, shorted their pay and was not concerned with safety...
    One comment mentioned something I have wondered about also....when Borcina was bringing the 2 girls down the stairs and says they panicked and ran back, why wasn't he holding on to them or even holding them in his arms?..they were small enough that he could have picked them up to carry.This is just such a shame and was so preventable..I feel so sorry for the girls father also.
    I don't care about his work record because it doesn't have anything to do with the fire. He made a HUGE mistake, but it doesn't make him evil- just human.

    We don't know that he could physically carry the two children, especially with the fire raging and girls trying to get away to look for their Grandfather. He also was treated for smoke inhalation and was probably in a weakened state.


    jmo

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    My mind boggles. So they were concerned about Santa? Were they concerned Santa could get burned coming down the chimney? Shouldn't they have been worried about their home going up in flames instead?
    Assuming the children were already asleep and wouldn't be up until morning after "Santa" arrived, I am not following this logic at all. Children believe Santa flies through the sky with his reindeer, lands on the roof, and comes down the chimney but they're not going to inspect the fireplace in the morning to see if there was anything in it. For them, it's all about what presents Santa left! If removing the ashes was at all about Santa, why have a fire going so close to the time of his "arrival"??

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