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  1. #1
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    Thumbs up THIS article says what I believe about the motive for the murder and who the perp was

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/...retrospective/

    Jeff Shapiro used to be roundly criticized because he was a tabloid writer who did insinuate himself into the Ramsey's lives.
    Now, I think 15 years has mellowed his opinion and methods as much as it has mine.

    How I wish I had had his " spot on" religious understanding of why Patsy attached a warped and pseudo- religious angle to the murder when I was in Europe discussing the case with Europe's version of The Vidocq Society.
    It is NOT easy to explain Southern fundamental Christianity to people who don't even grasp the idea of what it is, much less how it can be perverted.
    I lived it, I know. I understand.

    Jeff Shapiro has an excellent article here. The only thing I can see wrong is that he spelled " cords" wrong. Bind the sacrifice with cords, not chords. No one was singing on that most unholy night.

    For those who have asked why I suspect Patsy as being the one and only perp. THIS is why. What Jeff Shapiro has written. All of what he has written, plus more he left out regarding the crime scene staging, both ante-mortem and postmortem.

    His sources are well- thought out. Steve Thomas, and a guy who studied Susam Smith's " religious" carrying on when she drowned her two boys. It's a Southern thing. I have seen it too many times in my career. People in the South can assign the most eye rolling, unjustified religious meanings to EVERYTHING.
    I can say this because I am a GRITS. ( Girl Raised In The South).

    Read this and don't ask me again " Why Patsy and not John?"
    John was from Michigan. A Yankee. NOT raised like Patsy was by Nedra. ( Nedra is another huge plot point in the murder as far as the Ransom Letter goes, but that's another story).

    Respectfully,
    Maria


    "Acquiring a pet may be the only opportunity a human has to choose a relative".

    This is MY truth, and this is my new baby puppy, Beau Monde.
    He will be joined in July by a tiny playmate.
    Please spay and neuter your dogs and cats.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingJana View Post
    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/...retrospective/

    Jeff Shapiro used to be roundly criticized because he was a tabloid writer who did insinuate himself into the Ramsey's lives.
    Now, I think 15 years has mellowed his opinion and methods as much as it has mine.

    How I wish I had had his " spot on" religious understanding of why Patsy attached a warped and pseudo- religious angle to the murder when I was in Europe discussing the case with Europe's version of The Vidocq Society.
    It is NOT easy to explain Southern fundamental Christianity to people who don't even grasp the idea of what it is, much less how it can be perverted.
    I lived it, I know. I understand.

    Jeff Shapiro has an excellent article here. The only thing I can see wrong is that he spelled " cords" wrong. Bind the sacrifice with cords, not chords. No one was singing on that most unholy night.

    For those who have asked why I suspect Patsy as being the one and only perp. THIS is why. What Jeff Shapiro has written. All of what he has written, plus more he left out regarding the crime scene staging, both ante-mortem and postmortem.

    His sources are well- thought out. Steve Thomas, and a guy who studied Susam Smith's " religious" carrying on when she drowned her two boys. It's a Southern thing. I have seen it too many times in my career. People in the South can assign the most eye rolling, unjustified religious meanings to EVERYTHING.
    I can say this because I am a GRITS. ( Girl Raised In The South).

    Read this and don't ask me again " Why Patsy and not John?"
    John was from Michigan. A Yankee. NOT raised like Patsy was by Nedra. ( Nedra is another huge plot point in the murder as far as the Ransom Letter goes, but that's another story).

    Respectfully,
    Maria
    SeekingJana,
    For those who have asked why I suspect Patsy as being the one and only perp. THIS is why. What Jeff Shapiro has written. All of what he has written, plus more he left out regarding the crime scene staging, both ante-mortem and postmortem.
    Your suspicions maybe unfounded. A religious explanation can be replaced with a sexual abuse theory.

    Coroner Myer in his autopsy report oultlines sexual contact prior to her death, so if you consider Patsy as the perp, you must explain away the abuse?



    .

  3. #3
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    The only thing really new in this article is Jeff Shapiro's supposition that Rev. Holverstock is a PDI. Since we don't know what evidence the rev had or didn't have, I don't see how this article advances any point of view. Lots of folks went with PDI over JDI or RDI or IDI. It's psychologically compelling but doesn't explain all the injuries or the layering of new injury on top of old injury.

  4. #4
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    I stand firm in my theory and have for many years

    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    SeekingJana,


    Your suspicions maybe unfounded. A religious explanation can be replaced with a sexual abuse theory.

    Coroner Myer in his autopsy report oultlines sexual contact prior to her death, so if you consider Patsy as the perp, you must explain away the abuse?



    .
    Sir,
    I have read that autopsy report until I can quote it. 15 years' worth of reading it.
    The chronic epithelial cell erosion on the posterior vaginal wall is from the 10 o'clock position to roughly the 2 o'clock position only,
    Meaning that something was inserted into JonBenet's vagina multiple times over a period of time in the exact same way and at the exact or almost exact same angle.

    Ditto the hymenal tissue being partially absent. Manual insertion of an object could cause both.
    IOW, a female could have easily have been the abuser. Not a male.

    IMO, and in the opinion of doctors who used to post on the case, this points to the insertion of an object other than a penis. I do not care to speculate on what was inserted, but would like to refer you to a recent case: the Sandra Cantu case in which the sexual abuser/ murderer was a woman and the item inserted into the child is believed to be the end of a kitchen rolling pin. Why? Because it was near at hand. Child's DNA found on the object.


    "Acquiring a pet may be the only opportunity a human has to choose a relative".

    This is MY truth, and this is my new baby puppy, Beau Monde.
    He will be joined in July by a tiny playmate.
    Please spay and neuter your dogs and cats.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinkiesmom View Post
    The only thing really new in this article is Jeff Shapiro's supposition that Rev. Holverstock is a PDI. Since we don't know what evidence the rev had or didn't have, I don't see how this article advances any point of view. Lots of folks went with PDI over JDI or RDI or IDI. It's psychologically compelling but doesn't explain all the injuries or the layering of new injury on top of old injury.
    Then believe what you want to. If you are smarter, write an article and let's see the publication.

    Jeff Shapiro didn't go into the vaginal/ labial injuries no. You think his theory is bunk because he didn't spend 2 pages explaining this?
    Read my answer to UKGuy. I am 99% certain that Patsy was the person doing the chronic sexual abuse. The position of the chronic erosion of her vaginal wall was well- defined. I believe an inanimate object or a finger was used.
    Again, reference the Sandra Cantu sexual abuse and murder case which was recently closed because the suspect pleaded guilty.

    The acute trauma to the labia and the vagina was all staging. Paintbrush ring a bell?


    "Acquiring a pet may be the only opportunity a human has to choose a relative".

    This is MY truth, and this is my new baby puppy, Beau Monde.
    He will be joined in July by a tiny playmate.
    Please spay and neuter your dogs and cats.

  6. #6
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    577
    I liked this article. I think it was Patsy, I think the death probably was an accident, I think the vaginal damage done by douching (which I think was thought of as punishing or cleansing by Patsy, not abuse...although it was and is abusive..similiar to the enemas done to children in previous generations that were probably unnecessary), and I think she may have sold the death to John as possibly done to JB by Burke to obtain his cooperation.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingJana View Post
    Then believe what you want to. If you are smarter, write an article and let's see the publication.

    Jeff Shapiro didn't go into the vaginal/ labial injuries no. You think his theory is bunk because he didn't spend 2 pages explaining this?
    Read my answer to UKGuy. I am 99% certain that Patsy was the person doing the chronic sexual abuse. The position of the chronic erosion of her vaginal wall was well- defined. I believe an inanimate object or a finger was used.
    Again, reference the Sandra Cantu sexual abuse and murder case which was recently closed because the suspect pleaded guilty.

    The acute trauma to the labia and the vagina was all staging. Paintbrush ring a bell?
    You can't know who was abusing JBR anymore than I do. Statistically, it's much more likely to be a male.

    You haven't proven that Patsy Ramsey is Melissa Huckaby. There was significant psychological dysfunction there, but it's not like she had a history of drugging others and acting out criminally.

    The sexual abuse could have started with a finger and progressed to penile rape as she matured physically (as is known to happen to children who are victims of incest). Or the perpetrator could have lost interest as she got older.

    I don't think that any theory that throws out everything that happened to JBR's body as "staging" is very smart at all.

    Prove to me the scenario in the Bonita Papers didn't happen, and PDI would have a lot more credence.

  8. #8
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    Blah! Dodie Osteen is the mother of Joel Osteen.....he refers to her healing from cancer all the time in his services. How many of his followers have garotted their child and hit her over the head with the force of a 350 pound football player?

    Patsy's handwriting scored 4.5 out of 5.0 and was analyzed by a professional in the field, with 5.0 being not the writer. Gary Olivia wrote a grievance when he was in jail, and I was stunned when I compared it to the ransom note. There were numerous similarities, down to misspellings of two words with double consonants. His DNA did not match.

    The DNA is good enough for the Boulder police to discount suspects...it is good enough to be in the database. It shouldn't be minimized.

    118 has been connected to John's bonus....to the Hendersons...to another former employee.....to astronomy, among other things.

    I don't discount a relgious connection in a sarcastic way. Victory is used a lot in religion. Dirty Harry was apparent in the note. Crosses were prominent in the movie...including a confrontation Clint Eastwood had with the psychopath near a huge concrete cross. Saved by the cross is a possibility.

    Susan Smith had a history of mental illness, and her motive was getting rid of her children so she could date/marry a guy with money. I don't recall her being particularly religious prior to her children drowning, but there was more there.

    Shapiro worked as a prosecutor for 2 years in DC between 97 and 99.........this latest religious connection to Patsy sounds more like a prosecutor making a case on quick sand, than any relevant evidence.
    Last edited by Maikai; 12-28-2011 at 06:37 PM. Reason: misspelling

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    SeekingJana,


    Your suspicions maybe unfounded. A religious explanation can be replaced with a sexual abuse theory.

    Coroner Myer in his autopsy report oultlines sexual contact prior to her death, so if you consider Patsy as the perp, you must explain away the abuse?



    .
    I don't believe that is the case as far as Myer's autopsy report. Many pathologists use the word "chronic" to describe inflammation....it doesn't mean there was prior sexual contact.....and for every supposed expert that says she was was sexually assaulted before her murder, there's others that refute it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BD1 View Post
    I liked this article. I think it was Patsy, I think the death probably was an accident, I think the vaginal damage done by douching (which I think was thought of as punishing or cleansing by Patsy, not abuse...although it was and is abusive..similiar to the enemas done to children in previous generations that were probably unnecessary), and I think she may have sold the death to John as possibly done to JB by Burke to obtain his cooperation.
    Oh brother........there is no way John would have been cooperated with any coverup.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinkiesmom View Post
    You can't know who was abusing JBR anymore than I do. Statistically, it's much more likely to be a male.

    You haven't proven that Patsy Ramsey is Melissa Huckaby. There was significant psychological dysfunction there, but it's not like she had a history of drugging others and acting out criminally.

    The sexual abuse could have started with a finger and progressed to penile rape as she matured physically (as is known to happen to children who are victims of incest). Or the perpetrator could have lost interest as she got older.

    I don't think that any theory that throws out everything that happened to JBR's body as "staging" is very smart at all.

    Prove to me the scenario in the Bonita Papers didn't happen, and PDI would have a lot more credence.
    Bolded by me. You just proved why BPD couldn't solve the case.

    What are the Bonita Papers? I've never seen this published.


    "Acquiring a pet may be the only opportunity a human has to choose a relative".

    This is MY truth, and this is my new baby puppy, Beau Monde.
    He will be joined in July by a tiny playmate.
    Please spay and neuter your dogs and cats.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BD1 View Post
    I liked this article. I think it was Patsy, I think the death probably was an accident, I think the vaginal damage done by douching (which I think was thought of as punishing or cleansing by Patsy, not abuse...although it was and is abusive..similiar to the enemas done to children in previous generations that were probably unnecessary), and I think she may have sold the death to John as possibly done to JB by Burke to obtain his cooperation.
    The douche as the smooth object inserted on a frequent enough basis to cause chronic erosion of the posterior wall of her vagina could certainly be true. In fact, it seems to be the most logical thing for which I could find no logic until I read your post. Thank you.

    As far as John and Burke go, no. No. John Ramsey was not in on any part of any of the crime, IMO, or the staging postmortem. Burke was a 9 year old asleep in his bed as far as I am concerned. I don't think a mother would risk losing BOTH of her children, one to death at her hands, the other to either serious emotional problems if he was labeled as the killer by the parents alone, or certainly if called such by society. Maybe he was a few weeks short of meeting CO statue for prison, but being labeled his sister's killer would be an emotionally devastating thing.
    Also, how could a mother EVER expect that living child to have one single thing to do with her after she called him a killer?

    As I said, she would have then lost both her children. No, not John and not Burke, IMO.

    The ONLY part of the staging which I think she might have had help with was in the wording of the ransom letter. I think that's why the phone records are missing and have always been " missing". I think there was a long phone call to Nedra that night. Some of the phrases have Nedra written all over them.
    In this case, I was around members of the family, and I do know why I think some of the phrases were much like Nedra spoke. SHE would have lied for Patsy. John wouldn't have. Burke wouldn't have sat there and let his mother call him a killer either, whether by accident ( ?? Accident- really??) or a murder, which it definitely was, I don't think.


    "Acquiring a pet may be the only opportunity a human has to choose a relative".

    This is MY truth, and this is my new baby puppy, Beau Monde.
    He will be joined in July by a tiny playmate.
    Please spay and neuter your dogs and cats.

  13. #13
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    Instead of douching, could Patsy have been inserting a tampon as a (misguided) attempt to treat JB's incontinance? It is a suggested method in helping women with stress incontinance, though I can't see it helping a child! Just an idea I've had for a long time.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by chemgirl View Post
    Instead of douching, could Patsy have been inserting a tampon as a (misguided) attempt to treat JB's incontinance? It is a suggested method in helping women with stress incontinance, though I can't see it helping a child! Just an idea I've had for a long time.
    I doubt it was a tampon for any reason. It had been said by some who knew Patsy that she used to douche JB because JB defecated in her pants regularly and Patsy felt this method would cleanse fecal matter from her vagina (where it would certainly end up from having a bowel movement inside her underwear for any length of time. It would happen with pull-ups too.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    I doubt it was a tampon for any reason. It had been said by some who knew Patsy that she used to douche JB because JB defecated in her pants regularly and Patsy felt this method would cleanse fecal matter from her vagina (where it would certainly end up from having a bowel movement inside her underwear for any length of time. It would happen with pull-ups too.
    I've never heard that.....and if there was an accident, she was always cleaned up quickly. The bowel movement accidents are another urban legend....It didn't happen on a regular basis.

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