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  1. #1
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    OH - Pickaway Co., Male UP4765, 16-30, off Hwy 56 @ Scippo Creek, Nov'91

    Here's a case with recent "Last Modified" activity in NamUs:

    NamUs UP # 4765 https://identifyus.org/cases/4765
    (Not listed in DoeNetwork)

    Unidentified Male (Race Unsure) (Previously believed to be female).
    Found November 01, 1991 in Pickaway County Ohio 43113 (zip code corresponds to city of Circleville)

    Approx age: 16 - 30 years old
    Weight (pounds): 110, Estimated
    Height (inches): 61 (5'1"), Estimated
    Body Parts Inventory: Head not recovered. Evidence of intentional decapitation, missing cervical vertebrae above C5
    Probable year of death: 1990 to 1991
    Estimated postmortem interval: 3 Years

    Circumstances of death
    Head and cervical vertebrae above C5 not recovered.

    Identifiers:
    Fingerprints Not Available
    Dental Not Available (Jaws not recovered)
    DNA Sample available - Not yet submitted
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-11-2012 at 12:26 PM.

  2. #2
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    Karen Anne Spencer fits perfectly to the limited info available on the UID.

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...cer_karen.html



    * Her height (5'1") fits spot-on.
    * Her age (17) is within range (16-30)
    * Her weight (120 lbs) is within 10 lbs of the weight estimate (about 110 lbs).
    * The timeframe (Nearly 2 years from Dec 1989 to Nov 1991) fits the estimated 3-year PM interval.
    * The distance from I-275 @ Montgomery Road to Circleville is less than 100 miles, and is a straight shot by way of Ohio Hwy 28.

    There are no rule-outs listed in the NamUs UP casefile. I wonder if she was ever compared outside of the scope of NamUs.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    Karen Anne Spencer fits perfectly to the limited info available on the UID.

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...cer_karen.html



    * Her height (5'1") fits spot-on.
    * Her age (17) is within range (16-30)
    * Her weight (120 lbs) is within 10 lbs of the weight estimate (about 110 lbs).
    * The timeframe (Nearly 2 years from Dec 1989 to Nov 1991) fits the estimated 3-year PM interval.
    * The distance from I-275 @ Montgomery Road to Circleville is less than 100 miles, and is a straight shot by way of Ohio Hwy 28.

    There are no rule-outs listed in the NamUs UP casefile. I wonder if she was ever compared outside of the scope of NamUs.
    Submitted by e-mail to Michael Geron of the Pickaway County Coroner's Office.

  4. #4
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    She was found in 1991 and they still haven't submitted those darn DNA samples.


    She could have been identified long ago if the MP is in a database.
    I know it costs some to have the DNA tested but it's definitely worth it if they could get the victim identified and it leads to the killer being off the streets. What are they thinking??

    If she was found 1991 and the estimated year of death is 1990 to 1991, how can the estimated post mortem interval be 3 years? Does it mean 3 years maximum and anything less than that?

  5. #5
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    I received a reply from Michael Geron:

    Carl, Thanks, we will check it out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Donjeta View Post
    If she was found 1991 and the estimated year of death is 1990 to 1991, how can the estimated post mortem interval be 3 years? Does it mean 3 years maximum and anything less than that?
    I've seen that on quite a few NamUs UP cases where the estimated year of death is not consistent with the PM interval.

  6. #6
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    For the past few days, I've been having to go through the entire Websleuths site to find and replace my old image links. My old photo-hosting site - Webshots - is going out of business as of December 1, and I have to transfer all my Websleuths (and Porchlight) images from Webshots to Photobucket, and then revise the image codes in every post where I included a Webshots-hosted image.

    I got to this case last night. I realized that I had never heard anything more about the possible match of this UID to Karen Spencer.

    So I sent an e-mail to Michael Geron to request a follow-up.

    Carl, Incredibly, The bone samples we sent to Texas came back with DNA compatible with a MALE subject. Obviously, not Karen.

    Mike Geron
    BBM

  7. #7
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    Scott A. Hilbert is the only male from Ohio who fits the age and timeframe parameters.


    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...ert_scott.html

    This might be a pretty good possible, as he was last seen heading for Columbus. Pickaway County is in the close vicinity of Columbus.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-11-2012 at 12:46 PM.

  8. #8
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    Is the height of the UID still estimated as 51"?
    Scott Hilbert is 59".
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-11-2012 at 02:36 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donjeta View Post
    Is the height of the UID still estimated as 51"?
    Scott Hilbert is 59".
    I am always suspicious of a 5'1" height estimate for an adult male. I know a few adult males who are that short, but not many.

  10. #10
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    Right...

    I wonder if the short height estimate figures into the mistaken theory that it was a woman.


  11. #11
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    FWIW, height now says 5'3" (63")
    No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. - 1 Corinthians 10:13 (NIV)

    We are all one poor choice from being a subject on this forum. Think twice.

  12. #12
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    I would say the height estimate would mean somebody at the younger end of the spectrum -- a 16-year-old who hasn't grown yet, like the shrimp of a guy I dated sophomore year who was 6'2" when we graduated...but I digesss...
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

  13. #13
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    I had left a message with Det. Blankenship of the Union Township PD. He called me back just now.

    I explained to him that bones were found in Pickaway county in 1991 which had, up until recently, been thought to belong to a female - are now proven by DNA to belong to a male.

    I told him that with the exception of the height estimate, the circumstances and physical description fit pretty closely to Scott Hilbert, and since I've seen height errors in the past (and this estimate is unusually low for an adult male), I didn't want to rule it out on just that basis. He seemed to agree.

    I indicated that the sample was just recently processed by UNT, and I was told by Michael Geron that he was going to wait for CODIS to do its work. But I've seen several instances where it has taken years from the time that the DNA samples are processed to the time that they get a CODIS hit. I suggested to him that perhaps he can request a manual comparison by UNT.

    He said that he would look into it.

  14. #14
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    I wonder if the remains are 5'1" without the head?
    I can't complain but sometimes I still do. Life's been good to me so far. - Joe Walsh

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angie4b1g View Post
    I wonder if the remains are 5'1" without the head?
    That crossed my mind too. Normally they would extrapolate a person's height based on the length of the femur.

    But 5'1" to 5'3" is pretty far out on the end of the bell-curve for an adult male. One of the guys I play basketball with at the gym is very short. He says he's 5'4". I try to imagine someone a few inches shorter, and i know that I don't see that very often.

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