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  1. #1
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    pain killer 10 X stronger than Vicodan being developed


  2. #2
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    While I understand and respect the concern that such medication has a potential for being abused, it doesn't seem right to deny this to those who live with pain that has not reponded to current treatments. My 31-year-old daughter is one of those. She was diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis when she was a toddler, and has had pain all of her life. When she is having an arthritis flare, nothing she has been prescribed by her pain management team has successfully given her relief. I believe there are legitimate uses for such powerful medication, and those who need it should not be prevented from having access to it. I applaud the scientists who work towards developing new formulas, and I trust that safeguards will be in place to thwart an onslaught of abuse.
    One person can make a difference, and everyone should try.
    John F. Kennedy

  3. #3
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    I'm sure there will be abuses regardless of the controls that are implemented, just as there are today.

    But that's no reason why people in extreme pain shouldn't get relief.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by CocoChanel View Post
    While I understand and respect the concern that such medication has a potential for being abused, it doesn't seem right to deny this to those who live with pain that has not reponded to current treatments. My 31-year-old daughter is one of those. She was diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis when she was a toddler, and has had pain all of her life. When she is having an arthritis flare, nothing she has been prescribed by her pain management team has successfully given her relief. I believe there are legitimate uses for such powerful medication, and those who need it should not be prevented from having access to it. I applaud the scientists who work towards developing new formulas, and I trust that safeguards will be in place to thwart an onslaught of abuse.
    Thank you, I am one of those as well...and even with all of my diagnosis, disabilities, chronic pain, etc...every month it is an ordeal to get my scripts filled, and I have very good private insurance, so I am not having to deal with Medicaid, etc, I can only imagine. Still, my insurance company stopped covering oxycontin a few years ago, due to the amount of abuse and theft, and will only cover a very mild hydrocodone, much milder than what teens have at parties, probably. I am guessing that this new pain med, if approved, will probably only be available in hospices and for in-patient use...JMO
    Just my opinion, of course.

  5. #5
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    In a nutshell, this new drug is pure hydrocodone (the narcotic part of Vicodin). The amount of hydrocodone in a Vicodin is 5mg, and the rest is Tylenol (acetominophen).

    Fentanyl (used in Duragesic pain patches, and for conscious sedation) is 100x stronger than morphine. This new super strength hydrocodone is not the first of it's class.

    There for, you'd use a heckuva lot less Fentanyl than morphine to achieve the same level of pain relief.

    I think the article is "spun" a little too hard, playing upon the layperson's lack of being walking pharmacology books . "10x stronger" is easily misunderstood or misinterpreted unless you are some kind of expert, or a pharmacist.

    One thing I'll concede is that hydrocodone/Vicodins are one of the most abused narcotic pain pill. Super extra strength hydrocodone will have a very eager reception committee.

    As it is now, addicts may take 10 to 30 Vicodins per day. . . including the Tylenol that comes with it. Liver damage/failure from the Tylenol is what brings people to the ER, unless they come to the ER to get a script for more Vicodin.

  6. #6
    Marie is offline Daughter, if you don't remember us...who will?
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    My understand was that the Tylenol in Vicodin actually helps the hydrocodone work better? I was given a prescription after surgery and hated it, didn't provide much relief and gave me an upset stomach. I don't understand how anyone likes it enough to become addicted, didn't do anything 'good' for me.

    Cocochanel, I sympathize with you and your daughter, it is nearly impossible to get any pain med prescribed for my chronic pain, every doc thinks I'm a possible future addict I guess. I am sick about being told to get a massage, physical therapy acupuncture, chiropractor, etc. All have their place and help a little but I'd just like to be pain free!


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteyGirl View Post
    In a nutshell, this new drug is pure hydrocodone (the narcotic part of Vicodin). The amount of hydrocodone in a Vicodin is 5mg, and the rest is Tylenol (acetominophen).

    Fentanyl (used in Duragesic pain patches, and for conscious sedation) is 100x stronger than morphine. This new super strength hydrocodone is not the first of it's class.

    There for, you'd use a heckuva lot less Fentanyl than morphine to achieve the same level of pain relief.

    I think the article is "spun" a little too hard, playing upon the layperson's lack of being walking pharmacology books . "10x stronger" is easily misunderstood or misinterpreted unless you are some kind of expert, or a pharmacist.

    One thing I'll concede is that hydrocodone/Vicodins are one of the most abused narcotic pain pill. Super extra strength hydrocodone will have a very eager reception committee.

    As it is now, addicts may take 10 to 30 Vicodins per day. . . including the Tylenol that comes with it. Liver damage/failure from the Tylenol is what brings people to the ER, unless they come to the ER to get a script for more Vicodin.

  7. #7
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    Good. I know there will be some who abuse it, but aren't there always? I'm glad for the pain patients who really need it-- and need to spare their livers! I hate the Tylenol quotient in scripts-- I think THAT's the racket! How'd they wrangle that? (I might have to look into those factoids. Big pharm, little pharm-- it's all about the money.)

    moo

  8. #8
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    I am so happy to hear this. I hate Tylenol/Acetaminophen. IMO, there was never a need to mix it with Hydrocodon. Tylenol alone is the most dangerous over the counter med there is. It is easy to overdose on and there is no room for error. It is the number one cause of liver failure in the US. And you don't even need to overdose to run into a problem. All you need is something else going on in your body and your liver can't process it correctly. If you are dehydrated, have a virus, drink or eat grapefruit, fasting or dieting, etc you run into a problem. My husband had the RSV virus and took tylenol. Long story short, through a misdiagnosis and being given vicodin and told not to eat to prep for surgery, his liver was destroyed and he died two days later.

    Sorry for the rant. I am so happy to see Tylenol go bye bye.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quiche View Post
    Good. I know there will be some who abuse it, but aren't there always? I'm glad for the pain patients who really need it-- and need to spare their livers! I hate the Tylenol quotient in scripts-- I think THAT's the racket! How'd they wrangle that? (I might have to look into those factoids. Big pharm, little pharm-- it's all about the money.)

    moo
    You got it. Through a lawsuit, I got access to tens of thousands of pages of documents. The company was fully aware of a deadly problem. I'm not allowed to go into details but I will tell you this. It's cheaper for them to pay lawsuits than it is to pull the product. And would it shock you to know that most docs do not know what APAP stands for? So when they write a script for Hydrocodone APAP, they don't know they are writing a script for Hydrocodone and Acetaminophen. Drug sales reps were instructed to keep that little secret from docs and never, ever, mention the "L" word "Liver"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuziQ View Post
    You got it. Through a lawsuit, I got access to tens of thousands of pages of documents. The company was fully aware of a deadly problem. I'm not allowed to go into details but I will tell you this. It's cheaper for them to pay lawsuits than it is to pull the product. And would it shock you to know that most docs do not know what APAP stands for? So when they write a script for Hydrocodone APAP, they don't know they are writing a script for Hydrocodone and Acetaminophen. Drug sales reps were instructed to keep that little secret from docs and never, ever, mention the "L" word "Liver"
    BBM I understand your fear of the drug given your personal experience, but this is simply not true. Physicians absolutely know when prescribing hydrocodone, that it is a combination product containing acetaminophen. Similarly darvocet, percocet and several others are all combination products with acetaminophen. Vicodin can also be combined with aspirin and ibuprofen. It's never prescribed on it's own. If one ever finds themselves in the presence of a physician or prescriber who does not know that these products contain acetaminophen, run, do not walk, to the exit. It's pharmacology 101. Now, if a prescriber does not know that APAP stands for acetyl-para-amino-phenol, I'd give them a pass, but they know full well that APAP means acetaminophen.


  11. #11
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    SuziQ, I am so sorry for your loss.

  12. #12
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    I am glad that they are creating something to help those in pain really I am. I come from a family of drug addicts, particularly pain pills and it does bother me that there is another potential for a drug to abuse but honestly if they are gonna abuse drugs they are gonna abuse them with or without this new drug.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmandaBrown23 View Post
    I am glad that they are creating something to help those in pain really I am. I come from a family of drug addicts, particularly pain pills and it does bother me that there is another potential for a drug to abuse but honestly if they are gonna abuse drugs they are gonna abuse them with or without this new drug.
    Especially in this case, where it isn't a new drug, but a new dosage of the drug in a single tablet. For addicts, it's merely a matter of perhaps needing fewer pills to get the same high.

  14. #14
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    Gracenote is offline We know that all things work together for good for those who love the Lord.
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    I'm up tonight after literally writhing in pain all day from RA. I take a little Vicodin (Lorcet) that only takes the edge off if anything. NSAIDs hurt my stomach. I would do almost anything for one day free of pain. Just a day.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    I'm sure there will be abuses regardless of the controls that are implemented, just as there are today.

    But that's no reason why people in extreme pain shouldn't get relief.
    Exactly, Nova. My mom is one who suffers from varying degrees of pain daily. She has her spinal column fused from her lower back all the way to her neck. Some days Tylenol is enough, but when it's bad nothing will ease her pain completely. Oxycodone will take the edge off and allow her to relax.

    I pray that this is available in time to help her.
    I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it left.


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