All this focus on Echols' juvenile psych records doesn't begin to explain how he got two other boys to collaborate and how he managed to commit three murders without leaving a single trace of himself.
I did notice his finger rolling when he interviews. He's always seated so I never got to see the 'shuffle', but that's what he claims.
And now he also wears blue tinted sunglasses indoors, which I think is very weird.
Many medications cause photosensitivity and wearing tinted glasses or sunglasses make facing the sunlight a lot more comfortable. His wearing the blue shades and some of his involuntary actions do indicate that he may take psychiatric medications that cause the side effects he exhibits.
Echols may be taking some type of medication since he was diagnosed many times in the past as being depressed, bi-polar and/or schizophrenic. Those mental illnesses do not just "go away" and a person with a mental illness cannot "heal themselves" and it is a tragic fallacy to believe that they can do so because there are times when the illness is gone, for a while, but the medication is the reason for the calm and without it, serious mental illness will come back.
If Mr. Echols needs to take psychiatric medication, then it is best that he continues to do so. It isn't something his supporters should be upset about, they shouldn't wish to see him suffer, I don't understand that way of thinking at all.
As for Echols him having a mental health issue doesn't prove a thing. The only evidence against Jason were items seized from his room. Concert t-shirts and posters. Damien’s notebook which included Metallica lyrics as well as his reading list was used against him. So they were picked on because of what they read, listen to and wore.
Explain how there could be zero dna evidence from the three convicted men was found at the crime scene or on the victims. If it’s so easy for Terry Hobbs’ hair to have been transferred to Michael Moore’s body, please explain how the three convicted men were able to completely remove all traces of themselves from the crime scene and the victim’s bodies.
If you truly believe that they are guilty of these crimes and that they murdered three young boys in the woods, in the dark, without leaving any DNA evidence from themselves but also leaving DNA from Hobbs and Jacoby intact.
It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.
Damien Echols has not been thrusted in front of cameras. Damien Echols voluntarily steps in front of cameras.
Tardive dyskinesia symptoms are side effects of antipsychotic medications. They have been studied for HALF A CENTURY. They are not nervous ticks which will resolve with the discontinuance of cameras.
See example of a severe pill-rolling tremor here:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaIN2zRQn8w"]Tremor - YouTube[/ame]
See Damien Echols pill-rolling with his right hand’s index finger and thumb at 14 seconds, 54 seconds, 106 seconds, 145 seconds. Notice the peculiar positioning of his right hand during all of the interview. Like many other psychiatric patients that feel self-conscious about their tardive dyskinesia pill-rolling tremor, Damien positions his right hand when at rest in a peculiar position in an attempt to prevent his TD tremor from being occurring (keeps thumb and forefinger apart) and being extremely obvious.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDBVXEARyqw"]Damien Echols on conditions in jail - YouTube[/ame]
See Damien Echols pill-rolling tardive dyskinesia symptom again here at 2:12 while his right hand is at rest on the table. Notice the peculiar positioning of his right hand during most of the interview and all of his other interviews. Damien positions his right hand in such a peculiar position when it is at rest in an attempt to prevent his pill-rolling tremor from occurring. He must keeping his thumb and index finger apart while his hand is at rest or his fingers will pill roll. TD tremors do not always manifest equally bilaterally, but may appear more significantly on one side than the opposite side. I can’t see Damien’s left hand in the videos so it is unknown if his left hand is also pill rolling.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qygs2bOyov8&feature=relmfu"]Jason Baldwin on celebrity support behind the West Memphis 3 - YouTube[/ame]
verified psychiatric mental health nurse
This is what I've never seen anybody explain. Whenever you raise it you get either...
a) Ditchwater washed all the DNA away
b) The Hobbs' hair was secondary transfer
How can people not see that those two explanations contradict each other? If the ditchwater washed the DNA away, it should have washed the Hobbs' hair away too. It should also have washed away all the stray hairs belonging to the three victims, but plenty of those were found.
OMG! I must have tardive dyskinesia! My finger twitches like the one in the top video from time to time.
I'm sure that it's a real illness. However, I doubt that it can be accurately diagnosed by watching a few videos of someone. Isn't it possible that over 18 years on Death Row might have made him a bit nervous this soon after his release? Couldn't that nervousness be exhibited through these gestures?
Also, people always point to his "finger to the mouth" gesture like it means that he's lying. However, the truth of the matter is that he was ashamed of his teeth. It is an attempt to cover up his teeth - not lies.
I have seen videos of Damien while still in prison that I don't think exhibited any of the "pill rolling" that is discussed. He seemed more at ease in those videos because he was in familiar surroundings. Look at the last interview with Bruce and Joe.
However, he is becoming more comfortable now. In some of the recent Q & A sessions following a PL3 screening I don't remember any unusual hand movements. In short, I think that too much is being made of some of his mannerisms.
Oh, I believe someone somewhere mentioned that Damien never smiled. I said that I would find a picture of him smiling and post it. Here ya go:
Here's a video of Damien after a little more time had passed.
I see an articulate, confident young man. I don't see pin-rolling fingers or even fingers to the mouth anymore. Could it be that he is actually adjusting to freedom and all that stuff was nervousness because he had been locked away from society for so long?
But the main thing I wanted to comment on was TD itself. I did a little research on tardive dyskenesia a few years ago. My doctor had prescribed me Seroquel for BPD, and I started having symptoms of TD. It was horrible and was the reason I stopped taking it. I distinctly remember reading that TD is sometimes permanent, and I thought that was kinda scary. Mine wasn't, the TD stopped as soon as I stopped the medication. BUT, if Damien seems to have some of these mannerisms, couldn't it be from some period before when he WAS taking meds? Making it is something he will always have. Just a thought.
PS. ALso, if he does have TD, he is not necessarily taking something for schizophrenia, I say from my own experience. I took the Seroquel because I was bi-polar. Maybe he said he is not taking any drugs, but maybe he is and he feels it is not anyones business.
Hi Cam!! Are you seriously kidding me, you are now in the total belief that the WM3 committed the crime? Wow, I pretty much caved on Darlie but this one I will never give any credence to... They are completely innocent, railroaded by a god fearing public & amok prosecution that had to catch/find the killer(s) of these 3 beautiful innocent young boys.... Just my opinion of course, however, this one you have wrong my friend!! Talk to you soon!! BTW, what do you think about Jodi Arias? GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY!! Ann
"To thine own self be true"
"When I refrain from thoughts of harm directed toward others, I accumulate all the benefits of life"
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEKxWzvoD7M"]Alan Wilson - Tardive Dyskinesia - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlVxv5ag0pQ"]Tardive Dyskinesia in young child after stopping Invega - YouTube[/ame]
Of course, I'm no expert. I suppose someone could have just a little of the symptoms? I think it is very possible that Damien has been or is on anti-psychotics.
Interesting thread. I believe the three are innocent but I'm always interested in other positions and a discussion about possible motive is relevant. Sorry if the anti-psychotic symptoms discussion is off topic. I think it's very annoying when a thread always devolves into guilt or innocence debates, because I want to actually read what people have to say on the particular topic, not just the same, circular arguments. Hopefully I haven't contributed to that!
For Travis Alexander, a human being.
*Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."
Back to motive: Please let me know if there are any nons that know of any other case where teenagers kill children that are unknown and unrelated to them.
Teenagers usually kill parents,class mates, ex-lovers,people that they blame for whatever they feel is wrong with them.
The only cases I can think of were children were killed by other children as a "thrill" kill are Mary Bell and the two boys that killed the 4 year old in England.These kids were much younger and seemed to have no understanding of the value of human life.
Leopold and Loeb.
Last edited by Dysthymia; 01-10-2012 at 02:55 AM. Reason: Quote
Leopold and Loeb didn't murder an unrelated stranger, they murdered Loeb's 14 year old cousin.
He was taken simply because they needed a victim and he was there .
...and you guys are right in the list there are seemingly kids that killed with no motive...but looking at each case seperately the motives can be found.They are found in the way these kids grew up and in all of these cases there was actual evidence in the WM3 there is none.Leaving that completely out I feel like Damien theoretically could have commited that crime,he had enough trauma in his life that it could be a possibility ,Jessie by all accounts loved children and only lashed out in anger not in a sadistic way and Jason there is just no way at all IMO the argument that he was coerced by Damien is completely out of the question IMO.
Aside from all of that there was simply no evidence other than Jesse's words that any of them were at the crime scene.
There's not many on that top ten list who qualify either. Of the eight on the list who were teens, most killed either family members, classmates, or kids who they knew from the neighbourhood. Of those left, one is a teenage burglar who gradually escalated to killing anyone, (adult or child), who happened to be in the houses he burgled, and one should be at the top of the list of dodgiest convictions in US legal history - higher up even than the wm3. A black 14 yr old who confesses in police custody with no parent or lawyer present, and is sent to the electric chair with no appeal because his parents couldn't afford a lawyer? That wouldn't meet any modern definition of beyond reasonable doubt.
There's two left on that list who qualify as teens who went out and killed a child who was an unrelated stranger for the heck of it, which I suppose goes to show how rare that type of crime is.
Just thinking out loud here. Wouldn't the first murder of most serial killers be a thrill killing?