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  1. #1
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    A New Year; where is Lisa Irwin?

    This case has been troubling; a baby girl just vanished into thin air. There are two main theories; mama did it and mama didn't do it. There are also many variations to these theories. The bottom line is that Lisa Irwin is not home with her parents. Where is she?

    What roles do jersey, ICP/MW and others play in Lisa's disappearance? We know jersey is in jail, beyond that others have disappeared into the vapor. Still Lisa Irwin is missing.

    I hope that she has been kidnapped rather than murdered. I still am not ready to place blame on a mother and father who don't have their little girl with them. I am not interested in their 24/7/365 routines; it is difficult to get through days when a loved one passes. To live with doubt is even harder; they will have to find their way. There is no concrete evidence that they have caused their daughter to be missing. On the chance that they or their family visit this forum, I will not place blame on them, they are, at this time victims and this is a victim friendly place. I wish them Peace.

    I truly hope that this New Year brings her home safely.

    Happy New Year everyone. I hope, despite our differences, that the focus stays on Lisa Irwin.

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacie Estes View Post
    This case has been troubling; a baby girl just vanished into thin air. There are two main theories; mama did it and mama didn't do it. There are also many variations to these theories. The bottom line is that Lisa Irwin is not home with her parents. Where is she?

    What roles do jersey, ICP/MW and others play in Lisa's disappearance? We know jersey is in jail, beyond that others have disappeared into the vapor. Still Lisa Irwin is missing.

    I hope that she has been kidnapped rather than murdered. I still am not ready to place blame on a mother and father who don't have their little girl with them. I am not interested in their 24/7/365 routines; it is difficult to get through days when a loved one passes. To live with doubt is even harder; they will have to find their way. There is no concrete evidence that they have caused their daughter to be missing. On the chance that they or their family visit this forum, I will not place blame on them, they are, at this time victims and this is a victim friendly place. I wish them Peace.

    I truly hope that this New Year brings her home safely.

    Happy New Year everyone. I hope, despite our differences, that the focus stays on Lisa Irwin.

    BBM: I agree that this case is "troubling" ...

    However, I respectfully disagree that Baby Lisa "just vanished into thin air" ... she was not even a year old so there is NO WAY she got up and just walked out the house ...

    SOMEONE did SOMETHING to this baby, and this person KNOWS EXACTLY where Lisa is ... NOW that is extremely troubling, IMO ...

    I hope so too, that the New Year brings Lisa home -- as well as many more of the missing persons ... there are so many -- TOO MANY ... that need to be brought home...


    Wishing everyone a Very Happy and Prosperous New Year !!!


    JMSSO = Just My Super Secret Opinion

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacie Estes View Post
    This case has been troubling; a baby girl just vanished into thin air. There are two main theories; mama did it and mama didn't do it. There are also many variations to these theories. The bottom line is that Lisa Irwin is not home with her parents. Where is she?

    What roles do jersey, ICP/MW and others play in Lisa's disappearance? We know jersey is in jail, beyond that others have disappeared into the vapor. Still Lisa Irwin is missing.

    I hope that she has been kidnapped rather than murdered. I still am not ready to place blame on a mother and father who don't have their little girl with them. I am not interested in their 24/7/365 routines; it is difficult to get through days when a loved one passes. To live with doubt is even harder; they will have to find their way. There is no concrete evidence that they have caused their daughter to be missing. On the chance that they or their family visit this forum, I will not place blame on them, they are, at this time victims and this is a victim friendly place. I wish them Peace.

    I truly hope that this New Year brings her home safely.

    Happy New Year everyone. I hope, despite our differences, that the focus stays on Lisa Irwin.
    I totally agree. I know the popular opinion on this board (and elsewhere online) is that DB is guilty 100% no doubt, and people must think I am looney tunes for believing differently. I just do not believe that it is that definite for multiple reasons that have been debated and debated some more. I still consider myself to be on the fence, but I'm not going to lie, I will be shocked if DB did this.

    I was going over some videos today, and I watched this raw footage of JI's parents. I had forgotten about this. At the end of this video, the camera moves off of the grandparents and shifts to DB in the corner of the room, crying. Crying without knowing the camera was pointed at her. I just..I can't even describe how that makes me feel. I just do not believe that is acting. I don't believe those first interviews are fake tears. I don't believe that pain is not real. like I said, I will be so shocked if she did this.

    http://www.kmbc.com/video/29509905/detail.html

    This case has been so hard for me. I've been here since about Oct.9th. I have followed it very closely since then, I've seen about 99% of the information. It is so hard being in the minority. But I can't help the way I feel about this. If I am wrong, it will be extremely difficult for me. What would be worse though, is not ever knowing.

    I hope so much that Baby Lisa is found. or at the very least, somehow we find out what happened to her. I hope her parents, if innocent, do not have to go through that pain of not knowing for the rest of their lives. if Lisa is no longer with us, I pray she did not suffer. I do think there is still a possibility she is alive.

    may 2012 bring answers and truth.
    Last edited by askfornina; 01-02-2012 at 05:41 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by askfornina View Post
    I totally agree. I know the popular opinion on this board is that DB is guilty 100% no doubt, and people must think I am looney tunes for believing differently. I just do not believe that it is that definite for multiple reasons that have been debated and debated some more. I still consider myself to be on the fence, but I'm not going to lie, I will be shocked if DB did this.

    I was going over some videos today, and I watched this raw footage of JI's parents. I had forgotten about this. At the end of this video, the camera moves off of the grandparents and shifts to DB in the corner of the room, crying. Crying without knowing the camera was pointed at her. I just..I can't even describe how that makes me feel. I just do not believe that is acting. I don't believe those first interviews are fake tears. I don't believe that pain is not real. like I said, I will be so shocked if she did this.

    http://www.kmbc.com/video/29509905/detail.html

    This case has been so hard for me. I've been here since about Oct.9th. I have followed it very closely since then, I've seen about 99% of the information. It is so hard being in the minority. But I can't help the way I feel about this. If I am wrong, it will be extremely difficult for me. What would be worse though, is not ever knowing.

    I hope so much that Baby Lisa is found. or at the very least, somehow we find out what happened to her. I hope her parents, if innocent, do not have to go through that pain of not knowing for the rest of their lives. if Lisa is no longer with us, I pray she did not suffer. I do think there is still a possibility she is alive.

    may 2012 bring answers and truth.
    Why would it be extremely difficult for you if you are wrong and why do you feel it is so hard to be in the minority? I get something totally different about this stuff and really don't give a fig if anybody else does or not.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by highflyer View Post
    Why would it be extremely difficult for you if you are wrong and why do you feel it is so hard to be in the minority? I get something totally different about this stuff and really don't give a fig if anybody else does or not.
    It would be extremely difficult if I was wrong because I would feel deceived. I would feel like I got played like a fiddle by the guilty party, in this case DB.

    I'm not really sure how to answer your second question. I think most of my frustration with being in the minority comes from elsewhere on the internet, where people base their opinions on non factual information, and are just plain mean and nasty. I like that WS is not like that. People here are very respectful of other opinions. It's hard to see the personal attacks on players that may be unwarranted. It's hard to see people be so sure of something that I am so unsure of. I guess I'm just different from you in that regard.
    Last edited by askfornina; 01-02-2012 at 06:31 AM.

  6. #6
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    http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/pub...s/fam_surv.pdf

    The above link is a booklet of guidelines put out by the U.S. Department of Justice. It is comprehensive in the advice it offers to the families of missing children.

    1.It is important to note that there is no right or wrong way to respond to the disappearance of a child, nor is there a right or wrong way to feel. This excerpt addresses the fact that every person is different in their reactions. To gauge Jeremy/Debby's reactions by what the response was in another missing child case is not valid. There is no connection between Lisa and Caylee Anthony; there is no connection between the adults in Lisa's case and any other case.


    2.Expect that you will be asked to take a polygraph test, which is standard procedure. Volunteer to take a polygraph right away. If you have not done so yet, read chapter 1 (The Search). Debby took a lie detector test; Jeremy was told he didn't have to do so. It is not unusual, because of stress over their missing child, for a parent to fail a question. There is no subsequent evidence to show the parents are guilty, only opinions.

    3.But the reality is that in most instances, the best use of your energy is not
    on the physical search itself.
    Parents are discouraged from the actual physical search. They are too emotional and they are not trained to do searches. Two things about this; one, parents should not be the one to find their child's remains IMHO and two, if this were the case, a 'chain of custody' issue arises.

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  7. #7
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    I'm sure she could be recovered if "the parents" would sit down with LE and answer the hard questions.

    Otherwise, she'll only be recovered by chance.

    The family seems to have moved on or so their attorney says.

    Such a shame. Lisa needs a funeral. Yes, IMHO she is dead and has been dead since that night.

    Baby Lisa won't be coming home except as remains. IMHO

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacie Estes View Post
    This case has been troubling; a baby girl just vanished into thin air. There are two main theories; mama did it and mama didn't do it. There are also many variations to these theories. The bottom line is that Lisa Irwin is not home with her parents. Where is she?

    What roles do jersey, ICP/MW and others play in Lisa's disappearance? We know jersey is in jail, beyond that others have disappeared into the vapor. Still Lisa Irwin is missing.

    I hope that she has been kidnapped rather than murdered. I still am not ready to place blame on a mother and father who don't have their little girl with them. I am not interested in their 24/7/365 routines; it is difficult to get through days when a loved one passes. To live with doubt is even harder; they will have to find their way. There is no concrete evidence that they have caused their daughter to be missing. On the chance that they or their family visit this forum, I will not place blame on them, they are, at this time victims and this is a victim friendly place. I wish them Peace.

    I truly hope that this New Year brings her home safely.

    Happy New Year everyone. I hope, despite our differences, that the focus stays on Lisa Irwin.
    Lisa didn't just "vanish into thin air." Someone is responsible for removing her from the house. I have no problem placing blame on parents who refuse to speak individually with LE. I believe such conduct indicates deception on their part.

    JMO

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by madge View Post
    I'm sure she could be recovered if "the parents" would sit down with LE and answer the hard questions.

    Otherwise, she'll only be recovered by chance.

    The family seems to have moved on or so their attorney says.

    Such a shame. Lisa needs a funeral. Yes, IMHO she is dead and has been dead since that night.

    Baby Lisa won't be coming home except as remains. IMHO

    I have never seen a quote where the attorney said the family was moving on.

  10. #10
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    (This is one of those "this post falls at random, no finger-pointing at any particular individual" things.)

    Where is she? In the river, I would think, with the answers lying very close to home.

    Or at least, statistically speaking, they would seem to lie there, inside those four walls. But who can say, who has been blessed with such second sight, to be able to discern what did take place that night, what actually did happen to Lisa Irwin?

    Well, on these threads, many seem to feel they're gifted in such a manner, have the great godlike ability to recognize guilt. On a supposedly victim-friendly forum the edges soon grew tattered and quickly burst apart, the margins blown by those thinking themselves omniscient. The penalty of death by a thousand cuts has already been administered.

    That's why I quit posting on the Irwin threads. The vindictiveness of some, the rush to judgement, overran the group conversation. It's certainly fine to believe - as I still may - that those accountable are those closest to the baby. But the continual grasping at straws to condemn based on the slightest provocations - provocations evidently clear to some observers in their need to affix blame - over and over again the picking apart of human lives - sorry. That in itself is a wrong.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by askfornina View Post
    I totally agree. I know the popular opinion on this board (and elsewhere online) is that DB is guilty 100% no doubt, and people must think I am looney tunes for believing differently. I just do not believe that it is that definite for multiple reasons that have been debated and debated some more. I still consider myself to be on the fence, but I'm not going to lie, I will be shocked if DB did this.

    I was going over some videos today, and I watched this raw footage of JI's parents. I had forgotten about this. At the end of this video, the camera moves off of the grandparents and shifts to DB in the corner of the room, crying. Crying without knowing the camera was pointed at her. I just..I can't even describe how that makes me feel. I just do not believe that is acting. I don't believe those first interviews are fake tears. I don't believe that pain is not real. like I said, I will be so shocked if she did this.

    http://www.kmbc.com/video/29509905/detail.html

    This case has been so hard for me. I've been here since about Oct.9th. I have followed it very closely since then, I've seen about 99% of the information. It is so hard being in the minority. But I can't help the way I feel about this. If I am wrong, it will be extremely difficult for me. What would be worse though, is not ever knowing.

    I hope so much that Baby Lisa is found. or at the very least, somehow we find out what happened to her. I hope her parents, if innocent, do not have to go through that pain of not knowing for the rest of their lives. if Lisa is no longer with us, I pray she did not suffer. I do think there is still a possibility she is alive.

    may 2012 bring answers and truth.
    I've never felt DB's tears are fake either, but I do think her tears are not sadness and remorse only for whatever happened with Lisa, but also fear for herself and what will happen to herself if it's ever found out.

    Do I hate her? No. I do think she knows what happened that night with Lisa. I vary some days between she was drunk as she stated, and that she's lying about it to cover up her gaps in time.

    Whatever happened to Lisa, and whomever is to blame for it, I hope they have a miserable heavy heart to live with for the rest of their lives, and that it haunts them to the depths of their souls. I also hope some day soon, they'll do the right thing by Lisa and tell where she is. Unfortunately I don't think Lisa is still alive but I keep trying to remember Elizabeth Smart and have some hope. It's all I've got.

    MOO

  12. #12
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    I've never felt DB's tears are fake either, but I do think her tears are not sadness and remorse only for whatever happened with Lisa, but also fear for herself and what will happen to herself if it's ever found out.
    Her tears do seem real, but if she did something to Baby Lisa by accident, she would be crying. She could still be mourning the loss of her child without admitting how the death happened - hence, the crying.

    I believe Baby Lisa is dead. And, at this point, if she were to suddenly surface, I would believe that this whole thing was a plan for the parents to make money off the story.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
    (This is one of those "this post falls at random, no finger-pointing at any particular individual" things.)

    Where is she? In the river, I would think, with the answers lying very close to home.
    respectfully snipped

    I thought that for a long time... that she's in the river. But I now feel that it's just as likely that she's in the woods somewhere nearby. She's just out of the search zone, or she's in the one spot that everyone assumed was searched, but wasn't.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
    (This is one of those "this post falls at random, no finger-pointing at any particular individual" things.)

    Where is she? In the river, I would think, with the answers lying very close to home.

    Or at least, statistically speaking, they would seem to lie there, inside those four walls. But who can say, who has been blessed with such second sight, to be able to discern what did take place that night, what actually did happen to Lisa Irwin?

    Well, on these threads, many seem to feel they're gifted in such a manner, have the great godlike ability to recognize guilt. On a supposedly victim-friendly forum the edges soon grew tattered and quickly burst apart, the margins blown by those thinking themselves omniscient. The penalty of death by a thousand cuts has already been administered.

    That's why I quit posting on the Irwin threads. The vindictiveness of some, the rush to judgement, overran the group conversation. It's certainly fine to believe - as I still may - that those accountable are those closest to the baby. But the continual grasping at straws to condemn based on the slightest provocations - provocations evidently clear to some observers in their need to affix blame - over and over again the picking apart of human lives - sorry. That in itself is a wrong.
    Best post I've read in a long while. Thank you was not enough.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by natsound View Post
    respectfully snipped

    I thought that for a long time... that she's in the river. But I now feel that it's just as likely that she's in the woods somewhere nearby. She's just out of the search zone, or she's in the one spot that everyone assumed was searched, but wasn't.
    Actually, I've no idea what happened, but the presence of the river nearby, one which does not easily give up its dead, seemed to me to be the more likely option.

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