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Thread: RULED OUT: Have we found Anna? Possible match to NamUs case UP 9597 - *NO MATCH*

  1. #251
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    We're approaching or are at the 5 month mark.

    While we are waiting, I've given the following a lot of thought. While I am hoping for and expecting an official rule out, I really think it is very possible these remains belong to a child who was never reported missing. It's not like the metro SF area is all that small and Anna's brother did at one time say the area where they lived was sometimes used as a dumping ground being a bit away from the city. That a few bodies had been dumped in the immediate vicinity or along Purisima (sp?) Creek Rd. I think it is most likely the remains belong to a child from the SF or Oakland area who was never reported missing yet dumped a "few" miles away.... as sad as that may be.

    But still very much want that official answer.
    ~JMO~

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  3. #252
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    i know 5 months is a long time to wait i hope its not going to be another 5 more months

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  5. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    We're approaching or are at the 5 month mark.

    While we are waiting, I've given the following a lot of thought. While I am hoping for and expecting an official rule out, I really think it is very possible these remains belong to a child who was never reported missing. It's not like the metro SF area is all that small and Anna's brother did at one time say the area where they lived was sometimes used as a dumping ground being a bit away from the city. That a few bodies had been dumped in the immediate vicinity or along Purisima (sp?) Creek Rd. I think it is most likely the remains belong to a child from the SF or Oakland area who was never reported missing yet dumped a "few" miles away.... as sad as that may be.

    But still very much want that official answer.
    I am also very worried about that. Then there will be two cases forever in the books. Why do we have so many UIDs? Because most of those people were never even reported missing to begin with. I really hope we can rule out this case just so her loved ones can have some peace.
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  7. #254
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    I have placed another call to the Coroner's office, but have not yet received a reply. The caseworker will not be in until Sunday and I will try again on Monday. I suspect that there is no news, since they would have contacted Annasmom by now if something had been found. However, by gently prodding them, they may be able to expidite the outside lab's pace.

    I need to approach this cautiously - I want to keep the Coroner's office as allies, not as someone who sees us as "a pest". The testing is out of their hands and pressuring them will only serve to hurt our efforts.

    I know that this wait is excrutiating, but I truely believe that we need to be judicious and wise in our dealings with LE and the Coroner.

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  9. #255
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    Dr. Doogie. I've worked the UID forum for years. I promise a call or email every few months is not going to make you or anyone who tries to match the missing and unidentified appear as "a pest".

    I don't know that you have worked directly with any other coroners offices since you've been here at WS. I promise, most are night and day when it comes to LE working on cold cases. I've never ever had a coroner get upset. In fact, most will talk your ear off and keep you on the phone for at least 15 minutes.

    I'm not trying to be rude, but I think you are being over cautious here. ME/coroners offices do not need the same kind of handling LE working cold cases does. Their time constraints are completely different.

    We were told by more than one party this possible match was going to be expedited. I expect it to be expedited with the private lab as well. It should have the same priority and shouldn't be sitting on a shelf somewhere collecting dust. It's not like Anna's mom is some twenty or thirty something year old mom. She is getting older and has a right to an answer. Or a right to have some basic information on what might be causing delays.

    Additionally, I do not think it is in the least bit out of line to inquire about additional information on the dentals as suggested previously.

    Again, not trying to be rude. You need to trust me Doogie. I wouldn't be pushing for you to do something if I felt it would cause any harm or delays to this investigation.

    I'm offering the unsolicited advise solely on my experience working several unidentified cases and having spoken with at least a half dozen coroners. Emailed many more.....

    Thank you.

    Cubby
    ~JMO~

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  11. #256
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    Additionally, we do not know that the private lab is even aware a family is waiting. Does the private lab know a request was made by LE to the county coroners office to expedite the case?

    All of these questions regarding the dentals, if the private lab is aware of the expedite request, can be done tactfully and in a manner which will not be viewed offensively or pesty.

    My concern here is the expedite request never made it from the SM coroners office to the private lab, and I would like to have confirmation it has.

    I think the added questions regarding the presence and condition of any baby/desiduous teeth would be extremely helpful here. There may be information in those desiduous teeth, should they exist, which could satisfy a rule out for us, which may not meet the legal or scientific criteria for an official rule out because there are no dentals on file for Anna.

    Were any desidous teeth lost ante mortem? Are they able to determine post mortem or ante mortem tooth loss in desiduous teeth? Of course the possibility exists only the adult tooth survived and all the baby teeth were lost post mortem.

    I'd personally like to see the dentals on the NamUs case file updated to include all known information on the desiduous teeth. An update to the NamUs case file on dentals would serve the purpose of the coroner only needing to answer that question once, rather than multiple calls or multiple emails......

    I hope you are seriously considering adding/asking these questions Dr. Doogie. They are reasonable questions, which could not only help in this case, but can also be added to the general discussion thread to help assist other sleuths when making comparisons to other missing children.

    thank you,

    The pest, lol! jk jk.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


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  13. #257
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    I spoke with Dr. Doogie. He agreed we should be presenting the dental questions as well as checking on getting confirmation the expedite request made it to the private lab.

    I'm going to be putting together a list of those questions and sending them to Dr. Doogie, since he still has limited computer access. Which means he has to go to the library to get my list of questions prior to making contact with the coroner. He may not get to it Monday as he originally posted, but will do so this week.

    Annasmom, did give me permission to contact the coroner myself, but I don't want to do that as the rule of thumb here at WS has always been one main contact person per case, so we at WS don't appear to be unorganized not knowing what the other is doing. I could, if another possible match arose, but thus far nothing has. I appreciate the permission and trust, but I really want to make sure we maintain the credibility we have worked so hard for here at WS. Not just with Anna's case, but with WS in it's entirety.

    That said, I will be getting that list to Dr. Doogie this afternoon. It will compromise questions already posted within this thread.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


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  15. #258
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    Reviewing again before I send the list of questions to Dr. Doogie.

    Here is the link to the dental information for NamUs case #9597, SM ME case number 06-0797:

    https://identifyus.org/cases/9597

    Tooth number 9 is listed as P for post mortem loss. Can it be determined if this lost tooth was a primary/adult tooth or baby/desiduous tooth?

    Teeth numbers 10,11,12,13,15 and 16 are listed as O, other, and the remarks list an explanation as O= unerupted or not developed. We assume this comment refers to adult teeth. Is that correct?

    What information is available regarding the baby/desiduous teeth present? Was there any restorations to the baby teeth or any possible identifying information such as crooked, erupted in the wrong area (too far forward or back), discolored, milk rot, untreated caries etc.

    Can the dentals be updated at NamUs to include known information on baby/desiduous teeth? Or can that information be sent to us so we can add it to the thread set up for this doe so the group of online volunteers who work to match the missing and unidentified will have this information, thus eliminating repeated inquiries for such information as it exists?


    The above is what I will be sending to Dr. Doogie with regards to the questions on the dentals.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


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  17. #259
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    maybe they are having a harder time obtaning dna and its taking a little longer

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  19. #260
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    Quote Originally Posted by smile22 View Post
    maybe they are having a harder time obtaning dna and its taking a little longer

    It could be a number of things. Backlog, difficulty obtaining a viable sample, the expedite request never made it from the CA-DOJ to the private lab. We just don't know. These are some of the questions Dr. Doogie will be inquiring about when he makes contact with the case manager at the SMME.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


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  21. #261
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    I just spoke with Dr. Doogie. He let me know there wasn't any additional information on the teeth the contact at the coroners office was able to offer. that they were not able to determine if post mortem loss was a desiduous/baby or primary/adult tooth.

    He did find out the ME's office had received results on specimans other than ours about 2 weeks ago. These other specimans were sent to the private lab about 6-8 weeks prior to ours being sent. Based on the math, assuming the time frame would be the same, that leaves us with about a 4-6 week additional wait.

    I didn't think about it while on the phone with Dr. Doogie, but we should probably next inquire again in about 12 weeks if nothing is heard by then.

    I also suggested Doug contact the current det listed for Anna's case, since he may be contacted by someone, and so he is not out of the loop.

    The ME's office was in contact with Det. Gilletti recently too, so everything is moving forward. We just need to be patient.

    The above is all per my conversation with Dr. Doogie. Aside from where I forgot to mention we should make contact again in 12 weeks if we still have not received any news.
    ~JMO~

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  23. #262
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    We're now at about the 6.5 month mark of waiting. I still check the namus case file for any updates/changes to the page. It is still showing the last time the page was modified was December 13, 2011 - so the correction on the availability of dna has not yet been entered.

    answers come soon.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


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  25. #263
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    Nothing new.

    I have started back to work - finally -but I will have limited internet access for about another month. I will let everyone know as soon as I can if anything breaks.

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  27. #264
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    Gosh, I saw a post from Dr. Doogie and my stomach momentarily got knotted up. thanks for the update and checking in, Dr. Doogie. Hope you're back online soon and glad your back to work!

    I keep looking at the namus case file, thinking maybe we'll see breaking news with Anna's name added to the exclusion list there? Or an update about the dna at the case file? Something, anything more than what we know now.

    Just thinking outloud while waiting. Back in January when Dr. Doogie and I first spoke about this possible match, I thought for sure by the time mid to late July came around we'd have an answer one way or the other. It never occured to me we'd be closing in on August and still waiting.

    Still praying news comes soon.
    ~JMO~

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  29. #265
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    just chiming in as one of many thinking about Anna and Anna's family as we patiently wait for results. hugs to all.
    "love is made of music and laughter" turtle

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  31. #266
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    It's been exactly 5 weeks since I posted about Doogie's conversation with the coroner about June 18th.

    I ran across a post by yet another family member here at WS who has been waiting about a year (August) on a comparison between her missing sister and a jane doe.

    I now find myself wondering why those waiting are told by the authorities the results should take about 2-3 months. Because from where I sit, I have never seen the results come in within that 2-3 month time frame.

    Praying we hear something soon.

    Praying for Anna's family as we await results and for all the families of the missing awaiting pending dna results.
    ~JMO~

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  33. #267
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    I also pray they find out soon. I pray it is Anna so her loved ones can be at peace. I understand these things take time, but I feel terrible for her family, having to wait to know if this was her child's fate or not, it's like reliving the pain. Prayers for her loved ones.
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  35. #268
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    just saw this... here's hoping the results will be back soon!
    "i'm not going to marry you. i'm going to EAT you."

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  37. #269
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    joining the wait

    I just finished reading the book. I too am keeping Anna's mother in my prayers. I will be checking back often.

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  39. #270
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    Any news yet? I am new to WS but getting around to reading lots.

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  41. #271
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigma34 View Post
    Any news yet? I am new to WS but getting around to reading lots.

    No new news yet.


    Welcome to WS, Enigma34, and thank you for your interest in Anna's case.
    ~JMO~

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  43. #272
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    this is taking longer than expected. do we have any new info like they are almost close to figure it out with the dna or they are still working on it?

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  45. #273
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    We have no new info at all. The last time Dr. Doogie spoke with the San Mateo ME he was told they received some results from a different uid case about 2 weeks before he called. Doogie and I estimated it might be then about an additional 4-6 weeks to hear about the speciman we're waiting on.... but that estimate was based on time only.

    The speciman we are waiting on for comparison is very small. There is not a lot for the experts to work with. All I can surmise is perhaps this particular speciman is taking longer than others due to the small size. There is only so much to work with and that may make it that much more difficult to extract. It's just a guess, but yes, the wait is long and the wait continues..... and we all pray answers come soon.
    ~JMO~

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  47. #274
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    This is an old case, so DNA matching could take a very long time. Samples degrade I believe. This has got to be agonizing for her family though. To be so close to an answer and still be so far away.

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  49. #275
    Sending warm thoughts while we wait for any news. I am never far away and will always be here for Anna and Family. xx
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