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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doogie View Post
    I am able to jump on the computer briefly to say a couple of things:

    1) Certainly, this is not the happy ending that we were hoping for (and still are hoping for). But our goal, ultimately, is to find out what happened to Anna. Whatever happened in 1973 is whatever happened - the truth is what we have been seeking.

    2) One clarification: The coroner has not yet sent the sample to a private lab. She is working on getting the sample from the CA DOJ and authorization to send the jaw bone "outside" of the system. This should occur in a week or two. Once the sample is sent to a private lab, then the clock will start "ticking".

    3) One concern with DNA samples is contamination - someone briefly touching a sample improperly will spoil it beyond use. Now imagine a sample soaking in a virtual stew of organic matter (the ocean) for 33 years. This is likely why a private lab using "state of the art" technology is required in this case. Hopefully, a private lab will have a quicker turnaround than the DOJ's overworked lab.

    Offers of condolences are premature at this point - let's let the pros do their job and wait for the results. My heart is telling me that this is likely Anna, but I have seen too many results that varied wildly from my expectations to jump to conclusions.

    I do want to express a special thanks to Cubby for making the possible link between this UID case and Anna. I also want to thank her for her discretion in how she approached myself and the family before posting anything here - obviously, this is a rough period and I appreciate her sensitivity in the handling of this matter.


    Thank you for the update and clarification regarding the status of the private lab, Doogie. I appreciate it very much.

    I also agree, it is too soon for condolences. I've seen possible matches that I was certain were going to be a match, but were ultimately ruled out. I've also seen dentals rule someone out who was later matched via dna. Let's let the "pro's" do their job, as we won't know either way until the dna can be compared.

    This should not mean we stop searching alternative theories while we wait. We don't know at this time, so we should continue exploring all area's until we get an answer on this dna comparison, whichever way it turns out.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

    You can now purchase Mr. Harrod's Disappeared episode through Amazon, iTunes or YouTube.

  2. #32
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    Kind of OT. There is a general discussion thread for NamUs case #9597. I thought perhaps I should add the link to that thread here for anyone who wishes to follow the general discussion thread in the UID forum. I will be following both threads, to see what developments occur. And adding some relevant info there, such as the status of the dna.

    Here is the link to the general discussion thread in the UID forum. The following thread is designated for all discussion surrounding this case, other than the possible match with Anna.

    CA CA - San Gregorio, Unidentified Child 5-7 Years old, Found 3/26/2006 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
    Last edited by KateB; 05-02-2015 at 09:26 AM. Reason: repair url tag.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

    You can now purchase Mr. Harrod's Disappeared episode through Amazon, iTunes or YouTube.

  3. #33
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    Geologist's Report

    Quote Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
    These pictures make it look impossible. But I grew up in the Bay Area, and believe me, those creeks turn into raging rivers when they are flooded. There are often redwood tree trunks that make it to the ocean after larger floods.

    What I don't know is just how flooded it was when Anna went missing.
    Geologist Kenneth R. Lajoie of the U.S. Department of the Interior wrote the following to us on May 1, 1979 (cited in Chapter 14 of Searching for Anna):
    Purisima Creek has incised or cut downward into its broad floodplain and formed a deep, narrow gully over the past 5,000-6,000 years. The narrow configuration of the present stream channel...indicates the stream is still eroding its bed, not depositing sediment...Purisima Creek, like all streams along the San Mateo Coast, has a very seasonal discharge pattern; floods occur during and after winter rains and the stream dries up during the late summer drought....In my opinion, large objects such as rocks (maybe one to two feet in size) and logs, and large amounts of sediment can be moved during periods of high discharge (flood stage). Any sediment left in the stream channel after a flood would probably be washed out gradually over a period of days, weeks, months, or maybe the next year. Large objects such as branches,logs, etc., may get hung up in brush and log jams. Sediment may build up for longer periods of time behind persistent obstructions such as brush jams, but is eventually washed out." Mr. Lajoie's full report is contained in the book.

  4. #34
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    Prayers for Annasmom and family as the wait for results begin. May there be some closure in this long journey.

    eleph

  5. #35
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    Been following Anna's case and also read the book. I was shocked when I saw this new thread. I will be saying prayers that this moves along quickly, the family needs closure.

  6. #36
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    I too have followed the case and I am in shock as I read here today. I hope you get the answers you need shortly and I am praying for you all. Either way I know this will be hard on you.
    Your Dream must be greater than your fear!

  7. #37
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    I think this was one of the first cases I read when I came to WS. I spent the entirety of an afternoon reading all of Anna's threads. I, too, am shocked to read this update. I hope for her family that this might, indeed, be some closure.
    They're certainly entitled to think that, and they're entitled to full respect for their opinions... but before I can live with other folks I've got to live with myself. The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience.- Atticus Finch

  8. #38
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    I am shocked to read this new development. I, like many others on here, have mixed feelings about this being or not being Anna. On one hand it would be closure for Annasmom and family and on the other hand all hope of finding Anna would be gone.

    If this is Anna, I would be comforted by the knowledge that she didn't have a traumatic life at the hands of some horrible people but instead, went to sleep and has been safe in the arms of Jesus all these years.

    I was packing to move yesterday and when I picked up my copy of Searching For Anna, I stopped and spent a few minutes looking at Anna's beautiful little face, wondering where she could be. Ironically, when I opened my emails this morning, I had an email from another member of WS who told me to have a look at Anna's forum.

    Whatever the outcome, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family Annasmom.

  9. #39
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    I keep coming back to the title of this thread. The collective WE is what I love about WS and about all the people here who are searching for Anna. Thanks for making me smile a bit during this uncertain time, Cubby!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by annemc2 View Post
    I keep coming back to the title of this thread. The collective WE is what I love about WS and about all the people here who are searching for Anna. Thanks for making me smile a bit during this uncertain time, Cubby!


    No doubt it is a collective WE. We are all in this search together whether we actively post often or just read.



    I'm back and forth whether I think this is Anna or not. The location certainly makes it a very strong possibility. However, I am going to follow both threads, because it may be that this uid is identified as someone else prior to the time it might take to get the DNA from a private lab. We just don't know.......
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

    You can now purchase Mr. Harrod's Disappeared episode through Amazon, iTunes or YouTube.


  11. #41
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    I'm a little embarrased to say I hadn't clicked on the area at the NamUs file which reads dentals. It gives a little more information than reading the dentals from the case report. (which is what I had done).

    https://identifyus.org/cases/9597

    After reviewing the dentals again, I don't see how an official ID can be made any other way than with dna.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

    You can now purchase Mr. Harrod's Disappeared episode through Amazon, iTunes or YouTube.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    I'm a little embarrased to say I hadn't clicked on the area at the NamUs file which reads dentals. It gives a little more information than reading the dentals from the case report. (which is what I had done).

    https://identifyus.org/cases/9597

    After reviewing the dentals again, I don't see how an official ID can be made any other way than with dna.
    I didn't read it either, but there is one tooth, the others are "O" which means unerupted teeth. Does that mean teeth coming in?
    Your Dream must be greater than your fear!

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    I didn't read it either, but there is one tooth, the others are "O" which means unerupted teeth. Does that mean teeth coming in?


    My understanding is the O indicates adult teeth which had not yet erupted or had never developed. Anna still had all of her baby teeth so the O makes sense.

    The one tooth which exists is a baby tooth.

    The following is just outloud thinking: The other tooth says P which means post mortem loss (indicated by the open socket). Whether that means an open socket from a baby tooth or adult tooth, I don't know. I don't know that the coroner could determine that either. Nor do I know if having that information would make a difference in Anna's case. Since she had never had a dental xray, it would be unknown as how close she was to losing the one tooth that is indicated with a P in the dental chart.


    On one hand, I want the lab to expedite obtaining the dna. On the other hand, I want them to be meticulous about obtaining dna and not rush to the point any possibility of obtaining dna is damaged due to rushing.

    Admittedly, when I saw the time lapse between discovery and date entered into NamUs, I automatically assumed the delay was due to the time necessary to obtain a viable dna sample. Any other explanation, such as not having dna, never occured to me.


    I don't have an answer as to why the almost 6 year lapse from discovery to our learning about this exists. IMO, there is no excuse for it. If Anna's case was not also in the same county the bone was discovered two seperate jurisdictions not knowing could be explainable. For this discovery to have been made in the same county from which Anna disappeared, the delay, imo, appears to be inexcusible. Had to get that off my chest.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

    You can now purchase Mr. Harrod's Disappeared episode through Amazon, iTunes or YouTube.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by SideKick View Post
    After pondering and searching for Purisima Creek photos today, in my heart I find it hard to believe anyone could be swept down along a curvy, snake like and sometimes extremely shallow creek all the way to the ocean. I do realize there was some flooding on the day she disappeared but the entire creek even low areas would have to have been high enough to do so...and without being stuck somewhere in a turn. Joe Ford said he toured the entire creek bed down to the ocean.


    Attachment 20473

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    Attachment 20475

    Attachment 20476

    Attachment 20477
    "Some" flooding is not a little thing. Water is powerful. Someone linked info re this stream that explained exactly how a such a thing could happen. A small body could be wedged under a log or some brush where it is impossible to see, for years, until another flood dislodged it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    Kind of OT. There is a general discussion thread for NamUs case #9597. I thought perhaps I should add the link to that thread here for anyone who wishes to follow the general discussion thread in the UID forum. I will be following both threads, to see what developments occur. And adding some relevant info there, such as the status of the dna.

    Here is the link to the general discussion thread in the UID forum. The following thread is designated for all discussion surrounding this case, other than the possible match with Anna.

    CA CA - San Gregorio, Unidentified Child 5-7 Years old, Found 3/26/2006 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
    Thank you. I was wondering when the discovery of these remains was made. Who found them and how were they found, is my question? Was this ever in the news? Because this is a small child, I'm surprised that this was not bigger news, if not publicized. There are thousands of transients who can easily disappear and never be located and it's easy for an adult to take off, but when a child is found, that should be a huge deal because most children are tracked carefully. When a child goes missing, that is noticed. And it would be easier to match up a child who is missing with remains, I believe, than an adult.

    Do we know how old the remains are? I saw some technical discussion on the other thread that may have had something to do with that but I don't understand. Surely there is a way to determine the age, how long the remains have been there? That would further narrow who this child could be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    My understanding is the O indicates adult teeth which had not yet erupted or had never developed. Anna still had all of her baby teeth so the O makes sense.

    The one tooth which exists is a baby tooth.

    The following is just outloud thinking: The other tooth says P which means post mortem loss (indicated by the open socket). Whether that means an open socket from a baby tooth or adult tooth, I don't know. I don't know that the coroner could determine that either. Nor do I know if having that information would make a difference in Anna's case. Since she had never had a dental xray, it would be unknown as how close she was to losing the one tooth that is indicated with a P in the dental chart.


    On one hand, I want the lab to expedite obtaining the dna. On the other hand, I want them to be meticulous about obtaining dna and not rush to the point any possibility of obtaining dna is damaged due to rushing.

    Admittedly, when I saw the time lapse between discovery and date entered into NamUs, I automatically assumed the delay was due to the time necessary to obtain a viable dna sample. Any other explanation, such as not having dna, never occured to me.


    I don't have an answer as to why the almost 6 year lapse from discovery to our learning about this exists. IMO, there is no excuse for it. If Anna's case was not also in the same county the bone was discovered two seperate jurisdictions not knowing could be explainable. For this discovery to have been made in the same county from which Anna disappeared, the delay, imo, appears to be inexcusible. Had to get that off my chest.
    Are you saying that the discovery was sort of not discussed or publicized or put in a data base for six years? Why would that be? I'm trying to understand what's up here. TIA.

    God bless Anna and her mama.
    For Elizabeth, a minor child, a victim. Thank God she is home!

    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    "Some" flooding is not a little thing. Water is powerful. Someone linked info re this stream that explained exactly how a such a thing could happen. A small body could be wedged under a log or some brush where it is impossible to see, for years, until another flood dislodged it.



    Thank you. I was wondering when the discovery of these remains was made. Who found them and how were they found, is my question? Was this ever in the news? Because this is a small child, I'm surprised that this was not bigger news, if not publicized. There are thousands of transients who can easily disappear and never be located and it's easy for an adult to take off, but when a child is found, that should be a huge deal because most children are tracked carefully. When a child goes missing, that is noticed. And it would be easier to match up a child who is missing with remains, I believe, than an adult.

    Do we know how old the remains are? I saw some technical discussion on the other thread that may have had something to do with that but I don't understand. Surely there is a way to determine the age, how long the remains have been there? That would further narrow who this child could be.



    Are you saying that the discovery was sort of not discussed or publicized or put in a data base for six years? Why would that be? I'm trying to understand what's up here. TIA.

    God bless Anna and her mama.

    Thank you for the excellent questions gitana1.

    According to NamUs, the discovery was made in March of 2006 by a citizen on the beach between San Gregorio Beach and Pomponio (sp?) beach. The discovery was not entered into NamUs until Dec 11, 2011. So yes, the discovery was not publicized for almost 6 years. At least not publicized that the remains are those of a child.

    Dr. Doogie and I both recall knowing something was found on San Gregorio beach, but nothing we recall reading indicated these might be remains from a child. I know myself, I spent two years seeking information on someone with a Kukoda birth father, who was eventually ruled out, so I know had we had any inclination these were from a child we would have followed much closer and much sooner.

    I have gone back and tried to find the article which Doogie and I may have learnt of this find. I can't find it. All I have discovered is that there was heavy flooding in San Mateo County in the spring (March/April) of 2006. So heavy that certain counties were declared disaster area's. This leads me to believe it is possible these remains were dislodged (possibly from the creek) during the spring flooding of 2006 versus being in the ocean for 30 plus years prior to being washed up on shore.

    All we know about who made the discovery and when is from the NamUs file, which tells us a citizen found the bone on the beach in March of 2006.

    NamUs indicates these remains are from a child of 5-7, gender and race is unknown. Post mortem at NamUs only says years. So yes, the question remains when did the coroners office know these were remains from a child of 5-7 and why was it missed that Anna went missing at age 5 from the same county, San Mateo, in which this bone was found? Seems to me someone sat on this until shortly before it was entered into NamUs. Had the coroners office bothered to check for missing 5-7 year old children from within their own county when it was discovered these were from a child, they would have discovered Anna's case.

    My step dad is retired LE and retired from LE in 83. When I asked his thoughts on this discovery, his answer was (paraphrased) the jaw of a child of 5-7 would be much different than an infant or toddler (due to discussing what the O meant) and would be easy to distinguish to the naked eye of someone like myself, a LEO, not trained in the medical field. IOW it should have been obvious just on a visual.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

    You can now purchase Mr. Harrod's Disappeared episode through Amazon, iTunes or YouTube.

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