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  1. #46
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    cubby on the namus page it says dna available and entered. and when you look down further into the page under it says type nucdna. what does nucdna mean? and if they are saying no dna was extracted does that mean an error was written in the file or was dna really found but they lost the info on it?

    it also lists where the dna is and a reference number for the dna on file has anyone looked into that?

  2. #47
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    Like some other WS'ers, I read about little Anna's case not long after becoming a member here. It took weeks to finally catch up while following other cases here. Little Anna and her family touched me in so many ways.

    I pray that somehow, some way, this may be resolved for her family. I had so been hoping little Anna had been abducted by someone who had fallen in love with this beautiful child and raised as their own. That did seem a very real possibility to me at least.

    GB you and your family, Annasmom. You have never given up on your beautiful little girl, and I respect and admire you for that.
    Thoughts and prayers for the people of Paris and all of France!

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    Thank you for the excellent questions gitana1.

    According to NamUs, the discovery was made in March of 2006 by a citizen on the beach between San Gregorio Beach and Pomponio (sp?) beach. The discovery was not entered into NamUs until Dec 11, 2011. So yes, the discovery was not publicized for almost 6 years. At least not publicized that the remains are those of a child.

    Dr. Doogie and I both recall knowing something was found on San Gregorio beach, but nothing we recall reading indicated these might be remains from a child. I know myself, I spent two years seeking information on someone with a Kukoda birth father, who was eventually ruled out, so I know had we had any inclination these were from a child we would have followed much closer and much sooner.

    I have gone back and tried to find the article which Doogie and I may have learnt of this find. I can't find it. All I have discovered is that there was heavy flooding in San Mateo County in the spring (March/April) of 2006. So heavy that certain counties were declared disaster area's. This leads me to believe it is possible these remains were dislodged (possibly from the creek) during the spring flooding of 2006 versus being in the ocean for 30 plus years prior to being washed up on shore.

    All we know about who made the discovery and when is from the NamUs file, which tells us a citizen found the bone on the beach in March of 2006.

    NamUs indicates these remains are from a child of 5-7, gender and race is unknown. Post mortem at NamUs only says years. So yes, the question remains when did the coroners office know these were remains from a child of 5-7 and why was it missed that Anna went missing at age 5 from the same county, San Mateo, in which this bone was found? Seems to me someone sat on this until shortly before it was entered into NamUs. Had the coroners office bothered to check for missing 5-7 year old children from within their own county when it was discovered these were from a child, they would have discovered Anna's case.

    My step dad is retired LE and retired from LE in 83. When I asked his thoughts on this discovery, his answer was (paraphrased) the jaw of a child of 5-7 would be much different than an infant or toddler (due to discussing what the O meant) and would be easy to distinguish to the naked eye of someone like myself, a LEO, not trained in the medical field. IOW it should have been obvious just on a visual.
    Thank you so much. Why weren't these remains flagged earlier and publicized as that of a child, I wonder? Why would the potential connection to little Anna not have been made until now?

    But my earlier question (not phrased well, sorry!) is can we tell how old the remains are or from what era? I don't mean the age of the decedent but the age of the bones themselves? In other words, if these remains are only a few years old, it is not Anna. If much older, other missing kids would be ruled out. I don't know how that is determined. I think with many bones that have been buried, the surrounding earth is carbon dated. I wonder if that can be done to the bone material itself?
    For Elizabeth, a minor child, a victim. Thank God she is home!

    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by smile22 View Post
    cubby on the namus page it says dna available and entered. and when you look down further into the page under it says type nucdna. what does nucdna mean? and if they are saying no dna was extracted does that mean an error was written in the file or was dna really found but they lost the info on it?

    it also lists where the dna is and a reference number for the dna on file has anyone looked into that?

    nucdna means nuclear dna. According to the coroner the information at NamUs stating dna is available on the remains is an error.

    There are two types of dna. mt-dna which is mitochondrial dna and nuc-dna which is nuclear dna. They are not comparable, as they come from different area's of the body.

    When I can, I will find some additional information with supporting links to help better understand the differences between mitochondrial (which comes from the maternal line) and nuclear dna.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    Thank you so much. Why weren't these remains flagged earlier and publicized as that of a child, I wonder? Why would the potential connection to little Anna not have been made until now?

    But my earlier question (not phrased well, sorry!) is can we tell how old the remains are or from what era? I don't mean the age of the decedent but the age of the bones themselves? In other words, if these remains are only a few years old, it is not Anna. If much older, other missing kids would be ruled out. I don't know how that is determined. I think with many bones that have been buried, the surrounding earth is carbon dated. I wonder if that can be done to the bone material itself?

    Good question, at this point we don't know. They couldn't be very recent due to the post mortem loss of a tooth as indicated at NamUs.

    I don't know if the coroner has more specific information to narrow down the possible timeline. When I next speak with Dr. Doogie this is a question I will definately ask him, as he is the contact with the coroner and with the SM Sheriffs office.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


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  6. #51
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    What about the experts who say it would be almost impossible for Anna not to be recovered had she gone into the creek? Does anyone remember how high the creek was the day Anna disappeared?
    For Elizabeth, a minor child, a victim. Thank God she is home!

    *Gitana (means "Gypsy girl"). Pronounced "hee tah nah."

  7. #52
    belimom's Avatar
    belimom is offline Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter ~MLK Jr
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    Regardless of who this turns out to be, I'm so thankful that whoever found these small remains turned them into LE rather than just thinking if may be an animal or whatever.
    Fly high and free, Jhessye ~

    My posts are meant to help think through possibilities and are strictly an additional opinion under circumstances when many points of view need to be considered. I apologize in advance to anyone whose potential involvement is contemplated in error. Please understand that much of what is happening is merely brainstorming during unfortunate events.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by belimom View Post
    Regardless of who this turns out to be, I'm so thankful that whoever found these small remains turned them into LE rather than just thinking if may be an animal or whatever.
    Me too. Kind of ot, but it reminds me of the last time I visited a friend on the far SE side of Chicago (before he passed away). While we were walking along Rainbow Beach he made a comment asking me why I was walking with my head down. I reminded him of the handful or pocketful of beach glass I had found, including some harder to find blue pieces. I remember replying, look at everything there is to see down there on the beach.

    So I am glad someone was paying close enough attention to discover this small bone. Bless whoever that person is, who made the find.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    What about the experts who say it would be almost impossible for Anna not to be recovered had she gone into the creek? Does anyone remember how high the creek was the day Anna disappeared?

    This is the only reference to any discussion on the amount of rainfall the day Anna disappeared.

    Carried over from another thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowangel View Post
    I think it important for people to understand what was happening in the bay area that day. Between 8 and 9 am that morning, it was reported over 8 inches of rain had fallen in the previous 24 hours. That is comparable to hurricane conditions. Roads were flooded, newspapers showed photos of vehicles trying to negotiate city streets with flood water flowing over their hoods.

    One part of this case that has always bothered me...Why would anyone pick this day to go "fishing" for a child to take? The likelihood of a stranger abduction, to me, seems less likely.
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    While it appears the amount of rain did not fall in the immediate area of Anna's home, the rain from other area's had to go somewhere. While the roads in the immediate vicinity of Anna's home may have been passible, the creeks, streams and rivers in the area likely were carrying the rain water which fell in other area's.
    Last edited by KateB; 05-02-2015 at 09:30 AM. Reason: repair url tag.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    Thank you so much. Why weren't these remains flagged earlier and publicized as that of a child, I wonder? Why would the potential connection to little Anna not have been made until now?

    But my earlier question (not phrased well, sorry!) is can we tell how old the remains are or from what era? I don't mean the age of the decedent but the age of the bones themselves? In other words, if these remains are only a few years old, it is not Anna. If much older, other missing kids would be ruled out. I don't know how that is determined. I think with many bones that have been buried, the surrounding earth is carbon dated. I wonder if that can be done to the bone material itself?

    I spoke to Dr. Doogie a little bit ago. While he had not asked the coroner specifically for a more narrow time frame for an estimated tod, he did remind me the year of birth on those listed as rule outs on NamUs range from 1960 to 1976. That would indicate the coroners office believes the remains were quite old. Anna's birth year of 1967 is right in the middle of the 1960-1976 range which made the possible match list for comparisons.

    Those ruled out were aged 2 or 3. My guess is they were ruled out based on dentals, iow, the #14 tooth which is listed as still being in place would likely not have been developed or erupted in a 2-3 yr old. This is not a 'verfied expert answer', just a guess based on what we're able to deduce from the information available.

    https://identifyus.org/cases/9597
    Last edited by Cubby; 01-08-2012 at 07:20 PM. Reason: add
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

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  11. #56
    AMF's Avatar
    AMF is offline Faith dares the soul to go farther than it can see. (Wm. Clark)
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    I'm holding my breath and keeping ask of Anna's family in my prayers. Resolution would be a good thing. Timing is all God's and I know this search has influenced many others.

  12. #57
    *
    While it appears the amount of rain did not fall in the immediate area of Anna's home, the rain from other area's had to go somewhere. While the roads in the immediate vicinity of Anna's home may have been passible, the creeks, streams and rivers in the area likely were carrying the rain water which fell in other area's.[/QUOTE]

    **
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Mateo,_California
    Describes under Climate that 1973 was the wettest year in San Mateo C.
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  13. #58
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    Here is a little bit of information on mt-Dna.

    nDNA versus mtDNA

    Compared with Traditional nuclear nDNA analysis, Mitochondrial mtDNA offers three primary benefits to forensic scientists:
    • Its structure and location in the cell make mtDNA more stable, enabling investigators to test older or degraded samples
    • mtDNA is available in larger quantities per cell – smaller samples can be tested
    • mtDNA can be extracted from samples in which nDNA cannot, especially hair shafts and bone fragments


    Read more at Suite101: What is Mitochondrial DNA?: Inherited From the Mother, mtDNA is Perfect for Cold Cases | Suite101.com http://karenlotter.suite101.com/what...#ixzz1ivq9CP00


    After reading this, it sounds like this may be the explanation as to why the CA/DOJ could not get nuclear dna. Unsure if they are set up to get mtDna and that may also be another factor for using a private lab. I was unaware or forgot mtDNA is the 'stronger' of the two or least degradable of the two.

    Still trying to learn more about dna myself.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

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  14. #59
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    I have not been around WS very much and seeing this thread brought mixed emotions for me. Anna's thread was one of the first I read and started following when I first came here.

    A part of me hopes that Anna's family finally has the closure that they've been seeking all these years, I just wish it weren't like this... But remember, if this isn't Anna, our search will continue.

    Prayers are going out for Annasmom and family - know you are in my thoughts and prayers every day.

    “Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.” Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sr.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    I spoke to Dr. Doogie a little bit ago. While he had not asked the coroner specifically for a more narrow time frame for an estimated tod, he did remind me the year of birth on those listed as rule outs on NamUs range from 1960 to 1976. That would indicate the coroners office believes the remains were quite old. Anna's birth year of 1967 is right in the middle of the 1960-1976 range which made the possible match list for comparisons.

    Those ruled out were aged 2 or 3. My guess is they were ruled out based on dentals, iow, the #14 tooth which is listed as still being in place would likely not have been developed or erupted in a 2-3 yr old. This is not a 'verfied expert answer', just a guess based on what we're able to deduce from the information available.

    https://identifyus.org/cases/9597
    BBM. Thank you for pointing this out. I hadn't seen how old they thought the remains are, so this gave me a chill to read. It really does sound like this could be Anna. My thoughts are with Annasmom and her family during this time. I hope answers for them come quickly.

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