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  1. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by BKS View Post
    I found this video posted on Feb 12, 2012. It is to honor Kim Raffo. It was supposedly posted by shannanmariagilbert. Why would anyone use Shannan's name to post?


    To Honor Kim Raffo-Please Help - YouTube
    That video is somewhat strange - but maybe I'm missing the connection - did Shannan & Kim know one another? Apologies in advance if this is common knowledge - there are so many threads covering this case...

    Did Kim & Shannan have a connection?

  2. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by ScorpiosDaughter View Post
    That video is somewhat strange - but maybe I'm missing the connection - did Shannan & Kim know one another? Apologies in advance if this is common knowledge - there are so many threads covering this case...

    Did Kim & Shannan have a connection?
    Someone may know something I am not aware of, but I do not know of a connection.
    These seem like photos only someone very close to KR would have. Lots of recurring themes I've seen elsewhere, as well. This person, "shannanmariegilbert" on youtube, posted several other videos but deleted them or they are marked private.

  3. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScorpiosDaughter View Post
    That video is somewhat strange - but maybe I'm missing the connection - did Shannan & Kim know one another? Apologies in advance if this is common knowledge - there are so many threads covering this case...

    Did Kim & Shannan have a connection?
    The only connection that I know about is that they shared the same lifestyle and they were both living in New Jersey at the time they went missing.
    The law does not pretend to punish everything that is dishonest. That would seriously interfere with business.~Clarence Darrow.~



  4. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKS View Post
    The only connection that I know about is that they shared the same lifestyle and they were both living in New Jersey at the time they went missing.
    Not so BKS ... Kim was in New Jersey, Shannan was in New York.

  5. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by sillybilly View Post
    Not so BKS ... Kim was in New Jersey, Shannan was in New York.
    Pardon? Shannan was living in Jersey City, N.J. when she went missing. She traveled to LI and disappeared while there seeing a client. Kim was living in Atlantic City, NJ when she went missing, she was found in Egg Harbor, NJ.
    The law does not pretend to punish everything that is dishonest. That would seriously interfere with business.~Clarence Darrow.~



  6. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScorpiosDaughter View Post
    That video is somewhat strange - but maybe I'm missing the connection - did Shannan & Kim know one another? Apologies in advance if this is common knowledge - there are so many threads covering this case...

    Did Kim & Shannan have a connection?
    The only connection I know of is the fact that the Nov 2006 Atlantic City murdervictim Kim Raffo's x-husband HA is facebook friends with:

    Mari Gilbert , Shannon Gilbert's mother (don't know when he became FB friend with MG?)

    Lorraine Waterman Ela, Megan Waterman's mother (FB friend with her already back in April 2011)

    Melissa Cann, Maureen Brainard-Barnes sister (don't know when he became FB friend with MC?)

    But for whatever reason HA is not FB friend with any of Melissa Barthelemy's family members
    Hi, english is not my first language so please bear over with me

  7. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKS View Post
    Pardon? Shannan was living in Jersey City, N.J. when she went missing. She traveled to LI and disappeared while there seeing a client. Kim was living in Atlantic City, NJ when she went missing, she was found in Egg Harbor, NJ.
    You are, no doubt, right!

    However, Shannan Gilbert lived in Northern NJ (Jersey City ) and Kim Raffo lived in Southern NJ (Atlantic City)
    Hi, english is not my first language so please bear over with me

  8. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotten dingo View Post
    There are likely lots of problems with it just mulling over possibilities. However, I respectfully disagree with your first sentence, and would say IMO anyone working for/with/under a pimp is engaged in an oppressive relationship.

    That aside, I cannot imagine any pimp being overly thrilled if one of his "girls" wanted a new job. Again, this whole idea may be, and likely is, completely wrong, but I'm okay with that. I figure 1000 bad ideas are worth considering if it ends up with even 1 clue to help resolve this.
    or how about wanting to get straight?only thing with that is ac roomate wasnt her pimp,so she wouldnt have to hide getting off herion from him.

  9. #414
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    Please let me clarify, Maureen, Melissa nor Megan did not do Heroin.. The reason behind Amber not bringing a phone with her is because she did not own one she used her roommates phone and that is the reason why she left it at the house that night she went missing. I believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by LINative13 View Post
    Also, another factor that I do not think we are giving enough thought to is that these women were addicted to heroin (atleast Amber was). Heroin is not known for making its users think better. I have lost friends to this drug (either directly or indirectly) and it morphs your entire logic. A person addicted to this will do anything to get it if they are desperate. These girls may have been street smart but when you are on dope; any smarts are out the window.
    “Just as hope rings through laughter, it can also shine through tears.”~ Maya Angelou

  10. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan1122 View Post
    Sorry I can't bold on the iPad.....referring to Amber and Megan's last johns as possibly being the same guy. Yes, that was what I was getting at. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

    The person that attacked Maureen and/or Melissa could have been posing as a john or out right attacked them after stalking them. Maureen would not have had to call anyone because she was right where the acton is.

    For Megan and Amber he could have been posing as a john (or an actual john), to lure them out w/o their phones. Or another person could have stalked them and killed them. I understand that if the john is the killer that his number would likely be in the phone records. It is possible that it is there/him and LE doesn't have enough evidence yet. Or he is a tech wiz and disappeared somehow......I don't know if that is possible or not, as I am not a tech wiz.

    Most importantly, I'd like to make the point that all of this is speculation and none of us know what actually happened to Maureen and Melissa between the time they left their last john and the time they were thrown in the bramble at GB.....other than the fact that they were killed. We also don't know exactly what happened to Megan and Amber. We can not say for sure it was a john or was not a john, that is my understanding. These are theories. MOO

    P.S. thanks for the link to the article about those 2 cops.
    We can make still some valid assumptions. For example that someone without a phone can't call anybody. So, since there is more than one last john involved if you take all four cases, things happened after the last john.
    About the phone records. Can be, someone uses an untraceable phone, but the incoming call ist still in the records of the person called. No way to get that entry out without hacking the phone company. The entry only doesn't help in those cases to trace back to the phone from where the call was made.

    Peter
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!


  11. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theforeigner View Post
    Peter you posted that "those two cops who popped up when they went through Megan's phone records."
    You got that wrong, it was NOT Megan it was Maureen who's last contact was a NYPD officer!





    Could you please provide a link to the above info? because I have never heard anything about that there was found any connection between any police officers and Megan Waterman.
    It was through the investigation of Maureen Brainard-Barnes, and the computer she had used, that LE found that a NYPD officer was the last contact of Maureen's.

    Here is the info:

    http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/2011...im-sources-say

    Quote:
    "A Connecticut call girl killed by a Long Island serial killer who found her through Craigslist was contacted by an NYPD officer shortly before her death"


    Quote:

    "Maureen Brainard-Barnes, 25, of Norwich, CT., was last seen at a 46th Street hotel.


    When Brainard-Barnes disappeared in 2007, Connecticut detectives came to Manhattan and went through her computer.

    What they discovered was that the officer, who lived on Staten Island, was one of the last people to contact her through Craigslist."




    As far as I know those NYPD "TWO police officers" was never connected to any of the GB4 victims, but due to that they had a history with offending prostitutes they were looked at.




    And the idea that there was no other john that night following that phone call to friends is ALSO pure speculation.

    And there is neither one bit of evidence, not even circumstantial that she didn't pull off another trick!





    How do you come to that conclution? and could you provide a link if that was ever indicated by the press?



    That is pure speculation! Waterman might have left her phone behind because he asked her to and offered her lots of money and tolf her a lie he was a VIP of some sort, or a lie that he was a police officer etc etc.




    Again pure speculation!



    Do you have a link to the info , or a quote from one of her adds, that she was into femdom?



    AGAIN pure speculation! who says that a "John" and/or "SK" can´t change their ways of how and what kind of location they meet up with a prostitute?





    How is "clear" that Maureen was NOT lured ??? it's NOT clear, it's you speculating/theorizing.



    You are of course entitled to your opinion, I do respect that.

    But PLEASE STOP posting as if your theories and speculations are facts, because they are NOT.

    And by now, I´m also pretty annoyed that you keep on posting as if you were a proffessional profiler which you are NOT.
    I love it ... ready for the beer bet? Of course, we will all die from old age before SCPD gets the guy.

    And please note, for once and all: I AM NOT A PROFESSIONAL POSTER NOR DID I EVER PRETEND TO BE ONE. The fact, that I do this longer than you and have maybe seen more doesn't entitle you to spread wrongful rumors about me.

    Peter
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  12. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotten dingo View Post
    Regarding the phones, I see only a couple reasonable scenarios for leaving them behind. I do not see how a request to "leave your phone at home so we aren't disturbed" would fly; why couldn't she (any of the ladies) just silence or turn it off?
    IMO, IF there was a request to leave the phone behind it would be for the supposed security/privacy of the "john", i.e. him being (or claiming) to be someone who had reason to fear pictures, etc. This could be a cop, politician, "VIP" or simply a married man. Not saying any person was a person of this nature, but that perhaps if that request was made, this was the reason he, the john, gave. But, since we have no info saying the ladies all saw the same client, I am not sure how much sense this makes. Though we do know the GB4 at minimum eventually ended up with the same person, somehow.

    So, one other possibility that occurred to me is this: Again, this is IF anyone left their phone behind purposely. Who else could benefit from not being traceable/contactable by phone? The girls themselves- if perhaps they were trying to get away from their pimp/handler/"boyfriend" (I hate using that term for these guys no matter what they claim) and get out of the biz. What if the girls/some of the girls were in contact, by whatever method, with a person who claimed to be able to give them safe haven and help get them out? Perhaps that could explain the secrecy of some of the girls' interactions. They could have handled whatever last business, and then gone to meet this supposed good Samaritan. Leaving a phone behind might give them a bit more of a head-start from the pimp or whoever. If she had the phone, he would be wondering why she wasn't answering or returning calls/texts, and thus may not be alerted to her being missing as quickly.
    I don't know. Just thinking aloud. I can see why/how a john would have requested no phone, but not too many reasons why the any of the girls would have agreed to that, even for a big payday.
    My problem is, and I admit to that, is, that my experience in ordering prostitutes is limited. So the what I wrote was a first impression of someone, who is sometimes a little bit annoyed about the current cell phone culture where everywhere phones play call jingles at any time and in the most disturbing situations. But privacy concerns of the john would also fit the bill, so ... in that case, that guy has to be a big shot, probably much bigger than Brewer.

    Peter
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  13. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Brendt View Post
    I love it ... ready for the beer bet? Of course, we will all die from old age before SCPD gets the guy.

    And please note, for once and all: I AM NOT A PROFESSIONAL POSTER NOR DID I EVER PRETEND TO BE ONE. The fact, that I do this longer than you and have maybe seen more doesn't entitle you to spread wrongful rumors about me.

    Peter
    You have described yourself as "working" a case. Working for whom? To me this implies you are working for some government organization, some branch of LE, that someone has assigned you to a serial killer case. To me this is misleading. Perhaps you don't mean to give this impression.

  14. #419
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    With the exception of Maureen Brainard-Barnes, I have read nothing to indicate the other GB4 were not murdered by the john who they arranged a meeting with. It is an interesting idea that they were stalked and grabbed afterward, but IMO that is pure speculation and imagination. And our SK may well have gotten lucky with Maureen, picking her up after she made phone calls trying to get home.

  15. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbird View Post
    You have described yourself as "working" a case. Working for whom? To me this implies you are working for some government organization, some branch of LE, that someone has assigned you to a serial killer case. To me this is misleading. Perhaps you don't mean to give this impression.
    Oh, I work and have worked a lot of cases. Most of them just out of interest in the subject, just for myself. Others to get more insight with the intention to use that insight for some of my fictional SKs in my books. And most of them simply from an interest in human nature.
    And honestly, I have already several times explicitly said, I don't work for government agencies, any LE branch or any other kind of organization. You disability to read and understand those repeated rejections of those rumors is not my fault. So, once again, to make also the last person understand:

    I AM NOT A PROFESSIONAL POSTER, I DON'T WORK THOSE CASES ON ANYONE'S BEHALF OTHER THAN MY OWN!!!

    Redbird, let me know, whether you got the message this time.

    Peter
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

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