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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKS View Post
    He would have staged the AC4 after he put them in the ditch. Easily done, but not quite as private as he thought. The bodies were discovered within a month. The GB4 he staged before he put them at Gilgo. My guess is he had less time on the Parkway and he didn't want to be caught. The burlap at GC4 was for his convenience in moving the bodies and for camouflage, he didn't want them found. Again he laid the first two victims side by side and the third victim to one side and the 4th victim on the other side, always a little further away. Staging the bodies in a row is his signature (or was in 2006-2010.)
    You are away, mathematically spoken, that any dumping ground along any linear geometric shape would be a line? Just saying ...

    Peter
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Brendt View Post
    You are away, mathematically spoken, that any dumping ground along any linear geometric shape would be a line? Just saying ...

    Peter
    Any other SK's laid their victims out in clusters of 4?
    The law does not pretend to punish everything that is dishonest. That would seriously interfere with business.~Clarence Darrow.~



  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKS View Post
    Any other SK's laid their victims out in clusters of 4?
    Without digging through my files due to lack of time ...
    Ted Bundy's Washington State Sites
    I think Connecticut River Valley
    Godino in Argentina
    Quansah in Ghana
    Weren't Baumeister's found in groups of four too?

    However, groups of four are not the main point. If the police would have discovered Gilgo six months earlier, you would ask me the same about groups of three. Who knows, six month later and you would maybe ask for groups of five. The GB4 weren't dropped all at the same time. MBB was for two years alone there.
    Four and stop is much more significant for AC because there, all victims were laid down there in a relative short time.

    Peter
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKS View Post
    Any other SK's laid their victims out in clusters of 4?
    Here I have the Cluster maps for Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer). He had distinct clusters scattered about a fairly large area. After reading bout his clusters, the reason for him to cluster was for sexual satisfaction. He would revisit the clusters and have his way with himself, another victim and even took his wife once, claiming it would spice up their sex life to have sex out doors. Sick-o.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #125
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    In AC he stopped at 4 because they found the last victim within days of her murder. In Gilgo he stopped at 4 for the same reason, the discovery of the bodies. But because of that, a pattern emerges in the way the bodies were placed.

    AC4 & GB4

    1. Victims were strangled
    2. Murder weapon was not found at crime scene.
    3. Murdered at another location and then moved to dump site.
    4. All victims dumped outdoors along Atlantic coastal region
    5. All victims women ages 20-40 (approx.)
    7. Victims dumped in clusters
    8. Victims had addiction and money issues
    9. SK left little evidence at the dump site
    10. All victims were prostitutes
    11. SK did not try to hide the identity of the victims

    Just a few of the similarities.
    The law does not pretend to punish everything that is dishonest. That would seriously interfere with business.~Clarence Darrow.~



  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKS View Post
    In AC he stopped at 4 because they found the last victim within days of her murder. In Gilgo he stopped at 4 for the same reason, the discovery of the bodies. But because of that, a pattern emerges in the way the bodies were placed.

    AC4 & GB4

    1. Victims were strangled
    2. Murder weapon was not found at crime scene.
    3. Murdered at another location and then moved to dump site.
    4. All victims dumped outdoors along Atlantic coastal region
    5. All victims women ages 20-40 (approx.)
    7. Victims dumped in clusters
    8. Victims had addiction and money issues
    9. SK left little evidence at the dump site
    10. All victims were prostitutes
    11. SK did not try to hide the identity of the victims

    Just a few of the similarities.
    Only quick, because I'm in the middle of a hundred things right now:

    - you realize that you have successfully proven the meaninglessness of this pattern of four? As you correct and rightfully pointed out, in both cases the number four per dump site wasn't enforced by the perpetrator but by the fact, the dump sites were compromised. They didn't chose to stop dumping bodies there after four, the simply couldn't.

    - The rest of your similarities is the standard picture of most medium or higher organized prostitute killers. If you would put these criteria in a DB, you would get for example Hanson is the killer. We know, he isn't, he is still in prison, I think. There is just nothing tangible, no unique denominator between those cases and the kill speed is too different to be one and the same. Alone that is a KO-criterium. For AC to become the LISK, he would come down from a predator phase to a slow noob phase (not the technical level, the timing is the relevant point). He slows down to 1/50th of his speed and then shows in the end a re-acceleration to two/year? Where have you ever seen such a pattern?

    Peter
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  7. #127
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    Shoes

    Quote Originally Posted by BKS View Post
    In AC he stopped at 4 because they found the last victim within days of her murder. In Gilgo he stopped at 4 for the same reason, the discovery of the bodies. But because of that, a pattern emerges in the way the bodies were placed.

    AC4 & GB4

    1. Victims were strangled
    2. Murder weapon was not found at crime scene.
    3. Murdered at another location and then moved to dump site.
    4. All victims dumped outdoors along Atlantic coastal region
    5. All victims women ages 20-40 (approx.)
    7. Victims dumped in clusters
    8. Victims had addiction and money issues
    9. SK left little evidence at the dump site
    10. All victims were prostitutes
    11. SK did not try to hide the identity of the victims

    Just a few of the similarities.
    All victims were missing their shoes.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbird View Post
    All victims were missing their shoes.
    That would be something, but as it looks all GB4 missed all parts of clothing at all or am I wrong?
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  9. #129
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    Unless the clothes were taken by LE prior to these pictures or the elements destroyed them, I would lean on the clothes not being present.

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/att...4&d=1331242631

    2 pics on this page. Although I never found out who's bones these actually are. I doubt that was released.

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7654698"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7654698[/ame]

  10. #130
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    2012 Manorville find also barefoot

    We also have the statement from the man who found the male victim in Manorville early this year saying that the victim was "barefoot" and wrapped in a sheet. This victim may be an example that bridges the gap in MO. Also, a barefoot male would solidify for me that it is a foot fetish that makes the perp takeoff their shoes and not a defense mechanism against high heels.



    paging Mr Footsy..........Mr Footsy


  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthspider View Post
    We also have the statement from the man who found the male victim in Manorville early this year saying that the victim was "barefoot" and wrapped in a sheet. This victim may be an example that bridges the gap in MO. Also, a barefoot male would solidify for me that it is a foot fetish that makes the perp takeoff their shoes and not a defense mechanism against high heels.



    paging Mr Footsy..........Mr Footsy
    Well, except for the timeline, the entirely different victomology and that the statement was, "he didn't see shoes" but not "there were no shoes" ... oh my!

    This doesn't fill the gap in the different kill speeds, it doesn't fit the gap in the timeline, it doesn't fill any gaps when it comes to motivation and since we have no official COD for that man, it doesn't fill gaps there either.

    Peter
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  12. #132
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    The pattern of four bodies and how they were dumped is still a pattern. That the SK may have taken a break in his murder spree, that is not unusual. We don't know what happened in the months between November 2006 until July 2007. If he was a suspect or thought he was a suspect in the AC murders, yes he would have laid low. Most likely he spent his time trolling Craigslist or Backpage, setting up "dates" until he found his perfect victim at the perfect time. He was much more careful after AC4. It's not unusual for SK's to change their MO to confuse LE. In fact it's quite common.
    The law does not pretend to punish everything that is dishonest. That would seriously interfere with business.~Clarence Darrow.~



  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKS View Post
    The pattern of four bodies and how they were dumped is still a pattern. That the SK may have taken a break in his murder spree, that is not unusual. We don't know what happened in the months between November 2006 until July 2007. If he was a suspect or thought he was a suspect in the AC murders, yes he would have laid low. Most likely he spent his time trolling Craigslist or Backpage, setting up "dates" until he found his perfect victim at the perfect time. He was much more careful after AC4. It's not unusual for SK's to change their MO to confuse LE. In fact it's quite common.
    A pattern that is enforced on someona can't be accounted on said someone and therefore never be used to conclude on the behavior of that person.
    You talk about changing MO but not about the kill speed. Normally they speed up, not go down to creepy slow. Do the math please: Lisk got four in four years, AC did that in less than two months. Which means, AC was either in the peak phase (but no spiral down murders, as far as I can see), LISK is still in ramp up. So, if by some magic, you found a way how he basically took away 20 years from his career and by that age, I am sure, I would be interested in it ... a lot of people would, I think. It would be like the magic pill and start all over at high school again.

    Peter
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

  14. #134
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    predicting is highly fallible

    all of this "usually" and "normally" talk is prone to error. trying to predict the behavior of a someone based off the average behavior of many others is flawed in my opinion. if you are looking for your "average" serial killer, you probably won't find him. Predicting someone's behavior based on the behavior of other's in the past is not guaranteed.

    "normally they speed up", or "usually they do x" are dangerous assumptions that will likely lead you away from the truth.

    try using maybe and might

  15. #135
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    A pattern is a pattern, turned upside down and backwards, it's still a pattern. The pattern could just be a coincidence, but with so few clues, it's the one thing that is a gut feeling, that I can't dismiss. To throw out all possibilities that these two cases could be related just because of the speed in which the killer worked is, well, just another theory. Some SK's take long breaks depending on what's going on in their lives and whether they have a safe place to kill etc. Also, we don't know that these are his only victims.
    Last edited by BKS; 04-27-2012 at 03:15 PM.
    The law does not pretend to punish everything that is dishonest. That would seriously interfere with business.~Clarence Darrow.~



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